Raiding and pvp

vasil · 20th April 2008, 09:02

Before u start flaming me for using that forbidden word, please read further

The most recent game i played seriously was L2, and yes, Im pretty much aware of all its flaws, drop that. I am however going to give example from it. There's a 'epic' boss there, that spawns every 48 hours, and its easy enough to kill, so say 2 or 3 clans on each server can do it. This fact eventualy leads to competition, when there are at least 2 clans able to kill it, there's usually a massive pvp fight for the chance to do that boss. So my point is, i would like to see some PvE elements like that added, becasue they WILL lead to competition. And im afraid adding 1-time kill demigods/dragons wont have the same effect, simply because it can be done 1 time only /not counting failures/.

So whats ur opinion on that: fixed spawn time /or spawn 'window'/ bosses, not very hard /but not too easy also/ to kill in comparison with the ultimate PvE encounters. Some kind of reward that wont give huge advantages to the guilds doing it even in the long run, but on the other hand good enough to be worth doing on a regular basis. Personaly i would stick to items/gold/anything that can be transferable between players, simply cause players can switch sides

Or maybe killing it can be 'a must' for some high-end guild development, say for adding a castle to your guild town? In that way guilds will ot only have to do it, but will have motivation to show up and fight rivaling guilds trying to make it. even the 'carebear' ones

Shurt · 20th April 2008, 09:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by vasil

Before u start flaming me for using that forbidden word, please read further

The most recent game i played seriously was L2, and yes, Im pretty much aware of all its flaws, drop that. I am however going to give example from it. There's a 'epic' boss there, that spawns every 48 hours, and its easy enough to kill, so say 2 or 3 clans on each server can do it. This fact eventualy leads to competition, when there are at least 2 clans able to kill it, there's usually a massive pvp fight for the chance to do that boss. So my point is, i would like to see some PvE elements like that added, becasue they WILL lead to competition. And im afraid adding 1-time kill demigods/dragons wont have the same effect, simply because it can be done 1 time only /not counting failures/.

So whats ur opinion on that: fixed spawn time /or spawn 'window'/ bosses, not very hard /but not too easy also/ to kill in comparison with the ultimate PvE encounters. Some kind of reward that wont give huge advantages to the guilds doing it even in the long run, but on the other hand good enough to be worth doing on a regular basis. Personaly i would stick to items/gold/anything that can be transferable between players, simply cause players can switch sides

Or maybe killing it can be 'a must' for some high-end guild development, say for adding a castle to your guild town? In that way guilds will ot only have to do it, but will have motivation to show up and fight rivaling guilds trying to make it. even the 'carebear' ones

Based on Mortal Onlines commitment to Open PVP. I believe there will be plenty of competition out there. Here are several scenarios:

1.) Guild A wants Guild B's Town because of the nearby dungeon

2.) Anti Guild attacks PK Guild in the interest of Honor

3.) Same as 1 but, take away the town. Guild A wants to hunt in a dungeon and must kill Guild B to use it.

The possibilities are endless and hopefully will be Mortal Onlines greatest strength.

Shurt

Jangang · 23rd April 2008, 23:07

"Raiding" as the word is used in Pve games is lame, and about as fun as sitting on a pine cone.

I don't do raiding like that, its just... Well, stupid...

Raiding to me however has a very different definition... Its an organized assault (pvp) on a city, or whatnot... Be it a player city (ideal), or even an npc city... In the first example the idea would be to smash it, in the second to occupy it... Both can be fun, and neither are as tedious, or boring as a "PVE Raid" ala WoW, or L2...

F0rd · 23rd April 2008, 23:52

The "bosses" of the nearest thing MO has to raids are going to be one time only. I don't mean this in an overly insensitive way, but learn to deal with it. At least give the system a chance before you go describing its innumerable flaws, as single death "bosses" could indeed be another instance of "quality over quantity." I'm also going to go as far as to say that very few will exist when the game first launches, but more and more will be brought "on-line" as guilds "level up" to the point where there isn't much left to do other than "boss battles" and PvP. Though there might not be much more than that to do at any time, start to finish. :P

SkirmCard · 23rd April 2008, 23:58

From Mats Persson in the Answers to your questions Board
"This is a good question that requires an extensive answer. I won't be able to give that answer right away, but I'll do my best:
First of all, I'm not even sure what a "RAID" is, outside "that game". Where I come from, a "raid" is when you gather people from all around to sack a village, make a sudden attack on an enemy and so on. And yes, you will of course be free to to that. But I definitely can't see "raiding" in Mortal Online as the type of establishment it has become in other games.
PvE becomes very different in a PvP (or, PtP, Player-to-Player) game. Let's say your goal is to become a great history writer. The writing itself is very much a solo-thing, but you couldn't do your writing without a lot of PtP-interaction. Or say you'd like to become a master smith. When you sell weapons to other players (PtP), you'll undoubtedly become involved in their PvP conflicts. You'd probably want other people to help out in gathering and refining resources for you as well. Another example is if you (and your guild) is out on a "quest" to rescurrect some ancient creature for this or that reason. Your actions will affect other players (rescurrecting the creature might upset the balance of the Gods), and therefore other people might try to stop you or help you. I can think of few examples where end-game PvE won't affect the PtP/PvP, so I'm really not sure where to draw the line."

I hope that helps!

Sarvoth · 24th April 2008, 00:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkirmCard

From Mats Persson in the Answers to your questions Board
"This is a good question that requires an extensive answer. I won't be able to give that answer right away, but I'll do my best:
First of all, I'm not even sure what a "RAID" is, outside "that game". Where I come from, a "raid" is when you gather people from all around to sack a village, make a sudden attack on an enemy and so on. And yes, you will of course be free to to that. But I definitely can't see "raiding" in Mortal Online as the type of establishment it has become in other games.
PvE becomes very different in a PvP (or, PtP, Player-to-Player) game. Let's say your goal is to become a great history writer. The writing itself is very much a solo-thing, but you couldn't do your writing without a lot of PtP-interaction. Or say you'd like to become a master smith. When you sell weapons to other players (PtP), you'll undoubtedly become involved in their PvP conflicts. You'd probably want other people to help out in gathering and refining resources for you as well. Another example is if you (and your guild) is out on a "quest" to rescurrect some ancient creature for this or that reason. Your actions will affect other players (rescurrecting the creature might upset the balance of the Gods), and therefore other people might try to stop you or help you. I can think of few examples where end-game PvE won't affect the PtP/PvP, so I'm really not sure where to draw the line."

I hope that helps!

Thanks Skirm, I read that answer before, but can read it over and over

If the game is anything close to what he describes here... I will be in love <3

Uruz2012 · 24th April 2008, 02:12

There probably will be competition over those one-time "boss" mobs. Even though they only spawn one time they will probably be really hard to kill. So Joe Schmuck runs into a dragon on some mountain while he's mining or whatever.

Now Joe obviously can't kill that dragon so he runs back to the nearest city and gathers his guild. If someone overhears what's going on then the word will spread and a bunch of guilds will try to take down that dragon.

Competition is actually more likely since that dragon is only going to be killed once. Noone will say "I'm too busy to kill it right now. Lets do it the next time it respawns."

Shinzon · 24th April 2008, 03:21

If the said bosses are a one time thing; wouldn't that make the fighting between two guilds even more intense? As this is the only chance they get to take down that boss, they will be at each other's throats. While if the boss respawn, you could afford to loose... With the one time thing, guilds will be throwing everything they have into the fray...

Uruz2012 · 24th April 2008, 16:47

Yeah there will be a reason to log in every day. You would feel like kind of a jackass if you didn't play for a week and when you log on your guildmates say to you. "Where were you the other day we fought this huge *insert rare mob here*. It was so cool! Check out this sword I made from it's tooth! Look at this kickass armor I made from it's scales!"

I adds to the feeling that the world is changing when you're not there. It sucks to have everything be exactly the same every time you log on.

bondcarl · 27th April 2008, 17:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uruz2012

I adds to the feeling that the world is changing when you're not there. It sucks to have everything be exactly the same every time you log on.

Couldnt agree more. Static worlds like the world of warcraft world will hopefully be a thing of the past with the new MMO's. Killing a boss and then one week later that said boss respawning isnt my idea of fun. Sure the first time you kill him is great but then it starts to become a weekly chore.

F0rd · 27th April 2008, 21:09

If "boss" monsters are unique, then the chances of it "dropping" certain objects shouldn't be random, but guaranteed. For the sake of realism, a dragon shouldn't be dropping swords and lances or pre-crafted armors, but it should have a static number of teeth, and a certain amount of hide that could be harvested from its body.

Traceur · 28th April 2008, 08:05

ok, replace the word "boss" with "ore mine" or "fertile land", and i think we have your competition...

20th April 2008, 09:02	#1 (permalink)
vasil Newbie Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 2 Rep Power: 0	Raiding and pvp Before u start flaming me for using that forbidden word, please read further The most recent game i played seriously was L2, and yes, Im pretty much aware of all its flaws, drop that. I am however going to give example from it. There's a 'epic' boss there, that spawns every 48 hours, and its easy enough to kill, so say 2 or 3 clans on each server can do it. This fact eventualy leads to competition, when there are at least 2 clans able to kill it, there's usually a massive pvp fight for the chance to do that boss. So my point is, i would like to see some PvE elements like that added, becasue they WILL lead to competition. And im afraid adding 1-time kill demigods/dragons wont have the same effect, simply because it can be done 1 time only /not counting failures/. So whats ur opinion on that: fixed spawn time /or spawn 'window'/ bosses, not very hard /but not too easy also/ to kill in comparison with the ultimate PvE encounters. Some kind of reward that wont give huge advantages to the guilds doing it even in the long run, but on the other hand good enough to be worth doing on a regular basis. Personaly i would stick to items/gold/anything that can be transferable between players, simply cause players can switch sides Or maybe killing it can be 'a must' for some high-end guild development, say for adding a castle to your guild town? In that way guilds will ot only have to do it, but will have motivation to show up and fight rivaling guilds trying to make it. even the 'carebear' ones

23rd April 2008, 23:07	#3 (permalink)
Jangang Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 71 Rep Power: 1	"Raiding" as the word is used in Pve games is lame, and about as fun as sitting on a pine cone. I don't do raiding like that, its just... Well, stupid... Raiding to me however has a very different definition... Its an organized assault (pvp) on a city, or whatnot... Be it a player city (ideal), or even an npc city... In the first example the idea would be to smash it, in the second to occupy it... Both can be fun, and neither are as tedious, or boring as a "PVE Raid" ala WoW, or L2... __________________

23rd April 2008, 23:58	#5 (permalink)
SkirmCard Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Reno, Nevada Age: 25 Posts: 286 Rep Power: 1	From Mats Persson in the Answers to your questions Board "This is a good question that requires an extensive answer. I won't be able to give that answer right away, but I'll do my best: First of all, I'm not even sure what a "RAID" is, outside "that game". Where I come from, a "raid" is when you gather people from all around to sack a village, make a sudden attack on an enemy and so on. And yes, you will of course be free to to that. But I definitely can't see "raiding" in Mortal Online as the type of establishment it has become in other games. PvE becomes very different in a PvP (or, PtP, Player-to-Player) game. Let's say your goal is to become a great history writer. The writing itself is very much a solo-thing, but you couldn't do your writing without a lot of PtP-interaction. Or say you'd like to become a master smith. When you sell weapons to other players (PtP), you'll undoubtedly become involved in their PvP conflicts. You'd probably want other people to help out in gathering and refining resources for you as well. Another example is if you (and your guild) is out on a "quest" to rescurrect some ancient creature for this or that reason. Your actions will affect other players (rescurrecting the creature might upset the balance of the Gods), and therefore other people might try to stop you or help you. I can think of few examples where end-game PvE won't affect the PtP/PvP, so I'm really not sure where to draw the line." I hope that helps! __________________

24th April 2008, 02:12	#7 (permalink)
Uruz2012 Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Duluth, MN Age: 23 Posts: 100 Rep Power: 1	There probably will be competition over those one-time "boss" mobs. Even though they only spawn one time they will probably be really hard to kill. So Joe Schmuck runs into a dragon on some mountain while he's mining or whatever. Now Joe obviously can't kill that dragon so he runs back to the nearest city and gathers his guild. If someone overhears what's going on then the word will spread and a bunch of guilds will try to take down that dragon. Competition is actually more likely since that dragon is only going to be killed once. Noone will say "I'm too busy to kill it right now. Lets do it the next time it respawns." __________________

24th April 2008, 03:21	#8 (permalink)
Shinzon Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Toronto, Ontario Age: 19 Posts: 987 Rep Power: 3	If the said bosses are a one time thing; wouldn't that make the fighting between two guilds even more intense? As this is the only chance they get to take down that boss, they will be at each other's throats. While if the boss respawn, you could afford to loose... With the one time thing, guilds will be throwing everything they have into the fray... __________________ www.aegis-imperium.com

24th April 2008, 16:47	#9 (permalink)
Uruz2012 Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Duluth, MN Age: 23 Posts: 100 Rep Power: 1	Yeah there will be a reason to log in every day. You would feel like kind of a jackass if you didn't play for a week and when you log on your guildmates say to you. "Where were you the other day we fought this huge insert rare mob here. It was so cool! Check out this sword I made from it's tooth! Look at this kickass armor I made from it's scales!" I adds to the feeling that the world is changing when you're not there. It sucks to have everything be exactly the same every time you log on. __________________

28th April 2008, 08:05	#12 (permalink)
Traceur Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 2,879 Rep Power: 8	ok, replace the word "boss" with "ore mine" or "fertile land", and i think we have your competition...