Suggestions - Intuitive Combat Features

Ceolas · 20th April 2008, 22:16

I used to play a "supposedly" open PvP game called Roma Victor, which I know some here may have heard of or even tried. It was quite a low population game and had many problems and still does.

Some great features it had in it's combat system (when stripped down to raw mechanics) were, in my opinion, truly intuitive.

Here's some of the things which I think could go great with Mortal Online's real-time combat (which are similar to Roma Victor's but more refined), open PvP and no levelling treadmill. These all add to the experience if you have hitboxes, I'm not sure if they're planned but they make real-time extra immersive:

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Disarm system - if you hit an opponent in the weapon arm/the weapon itself, let that weapon be "disarmed", being dropped onto the ground.

Add special rules to this system to make it even more dynamic; metal swords can actually break wooden weapons if you hit the weapon hard enough.

When "parrying" with a wooden weapon, there is a chance, calculated by the strength of each opponent, that the wooden weapon will break if struck by a metal weapon. Add a very very small chance of breakage through parrying wooden weapons with a wooden weapon.

When it comes down to metal vs metal, add the possibility of being disarmed if you parry an extremely hard attack from an opponent. I.e, if Player A (metal sword) lunges forward at Player B (metal sword) and Player B parries the blow, then there would be a chance that Player B would be disarmed due to the sheer force.

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Shield hitbox - The beloved shield hitbox is so very versatile and dynamic and plays a great role in a stance-based system. If an opponent strikes at someones shield, the shield will protect the holder from said blow; or dampen it considerably.

To take it one step further, when someone holds up their shield to block (thus the shield hitbox taking the strain), add a chance to "disarm" them of their shield, sending it flying. If that does not work, add the chance that 2-handed heavy weapons can break the shield all-together (if this is not planned already)

For example, Player A has his shield held out to protect him but Player B wields a mighty warhammer-type weapon. He swings down onto Player A's shield and bolsters it out of his hand, disarming the shield completely damaging it greatly.

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"Barge" your opponent around - It would be great to be able to come into battle wielding a supremely superior amount of heavy armour all the time. But is it all that effective?

If a player hits you with a particularly forceful blow, calculated by their strength, they could send a heavy armour opponent to their feet. If not they could surely give them a good knock about moving them around against their will.

If Player A hits Player B (heavily armoured) but manages to make some impact with a forceful attack, let him "push" his enemy back with the strength of that blow or give a small chance to knock him down onto his back, allowing for a deathblow move to the head.

----

Now some of you may think, oh pfff it's all games of chance. Yes, it is a playing card but if you work hard enough and get the right combination of equipment, statistics, attributes skills etc. you can throw a battle into your favour. These sorts of abilities in my opinion balance the game quite a great deal, making those with real skill overcome those with real hard platemail.

It makes it so utterly diverse to perform such feats as these, and I've seen them done before with a hitbox system and they work well. All of this is great for a first-person environment such as this.

F0rd · 21st April 2008, 00:12

I like your ideas, they seem great on paper, but much like most of my ideas I wonder about implementation. I'm fairly certain that with the UT3 engine hitboxes for shields should be in, though that's totally speculation, and while the disarming shouldn't be too hard to implement, a breaking of weapons or the moving of the characters seems to me to be more difficult. Moving of players may also make the game less fun, in that a heavily armored opponent can just be pushed around, off-balance, until he's knocked over and killed. His immense bulk should make it as hard to move him as it is for him to regain his balance, should "moving" you opponent be implemented.

I do think that all of the ideas would just add to the sense of realism, were they to be implemented. Here's to hoping.

Stigma · 21st April 2008, 02:23

Well some good ideas here.

But, if anything, its the guy with the more mass (ie. the big guy in the full plate armor) thats going to be pushing people around. The same thing will happen as if you try to play tug-of-war with your overweight friend. Unless you are much stronger than him and also have enough traction, its the pure mass(weight) that wins any pushing battle.

Oh, and even full plate armor isn't really cumbersome to bear. Its heavy yes, but its balanced over your body, so its not really any more difficult to keep your balance or get up from a fall than if you had no armor on. Its not like your wearing a big sardine can on your head... no one would use plate armor if it actually made significantly less agile as that would spell death in any battle. Just don't try to run a marathon in a full suit

(thats why knights had horses after all hehe).

-Stigma

Shinzon · 21st April 2008, 05:51

If you are encased in a tin can, and someone hits you really hard with a blunt object (A warhammer) shockwaves will travel through the armor, casuing disorientation and if the force was hard enough knock back, because you are dissorented after acting as a living church bell... It is not the actual force of the impact that causes the knock back, but because of the nature of plated armor itself, it will act like a church bell, sending vibrations all throughout the armor...

Traceur · 21st April 2008, 07:03

rag-doll / procedural animation + realistic physics system + pixel-accurate hit-boxes (i can't remember the real name of the coding technique, sorry..) + a table of different material strengths attached to the textures of different object parts =
all the ideas above emerging naturally.

yep, i like them, and i would like the game to aspire to being a medieval fighting simulator as much as possible.

Ceolas · 21st April 2008, 08:54

I suppose now that I read that part of my post about the pushing people around I notice I did get it wrong. Wrote it quite late my time, sorry guys.

That ability would give some advantage to people based on their character's build etc. Throwing your weight around can be a wonderous thing.

20th April 2008, 22:16	#1 (permalink)
Ceolas Newbie Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 8 Rep Power: 0	Suggestions - Intuitive Combat Features I used to play a "supposedly" open PvP game called Roma Victor, which I know some here may have heard of or even tried. It was quite a low population game and had many problems and still does. Some great features it had in it's combat system (when stripped down to raw mechanics) were, in my opinion, truly intuitive. Here's some of the things which I think could go great with Mortal Online's real-time combat (which are similar to Roma Victor's but more refined), open PvP and no levelling treadmill. These all add to the experience if you have hitboxes, I'm not sure if they're planned but they make real-time extra immersive: ---- Disarm system - if you hit an opponent in the weapon arm/the weapon itself, let that weapon be "disarmed", being dropped onto the ground. Add special rules to this system to make it even more dynamic; metal swords can actually break wooden weapons if you hit the weapon hard enough. When "parrying" with a wooden weapon, there is a chance, calculated by the strength of each opponent, that the wooden weapon will break if struck by a metal weapon. Add a very very small chance of breakage through parrying wooden weapons with a wooden weapon. When it comes down to metal vs metal, add the possibility of being disarmed if you parry an extremely hard attack from an opponent. I.e, if Player A (metal sword) lunges forward at Player B (metal sword) and Player B parries the blow, then there would be a chance that Player B would be disarmed due to the sheer force. ---- Shield hitbox - The beloved shield hitbox is so very versatile and dynamic and plays a great role in a stance-based system. If an opponent strikes at someones shield, the shield will protect the holder from said blow; or dampen it considerably. To take it one step further, when someone holds up their shield to block (thus the shield hitbox taking the strain), add a chance to "disarm" them of their shield, sending it flying. If that does not work, add the chance that 2-handed heavy weapons can break the shield all-together (if this is not planned already) For example, Player A has his shield held out to protect him but Player B wields a mighty warhammer-type weapon. He swings down onto Player A's shield and bolsters it out of his hand, disarming the shield completely damaging it greatly. ---- "Barge" your opponent around - It would be great to be able to come into battle wielding a supremely superior amount of heavy armour all the time. But is it all that effective? If a player hits you with a particularly forceful blow, calculated by their strength, they could send a heavy armour opponent to their feet. If not they could surely give them a good knock about moving them around against their will. If Player A hits Player B (heavily armoured) but manages to make some impact with a forceful attack, let him "push" his enemy back with the strength of that blow or give a small chance to knock him down onto his back, allowing for a deathblow move to the head. ---- Now some of you may think, oh pfff it's all games of chance. Yes, it is a playing card but if you work hard enough and get the right combination of equipment, statistics, attributes skills etc. you can throw a battle into your favour. These sorts of abilities in my opinion balance the game quite a great deal, making those with real skill overcome those with real hard platemail. It makes it so utterly diverse to perform such feats as these, and I've seen them done before with a hitbox system and they work well. All of this is great for a first-person environment such as this. Last edited by Ceolas : 20th April 2008 at 22:27.

21st April 2008, 05:51	#4 (permalink)
Shinzon Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Toronto, Ontario Age: 19 Posts: 987 Rep Power: 3	If you are encased in a tin can, and someone hits you really hard with a blunt object (A warhammer) shockwaves will travel through the armor, casuing disorientation and if the force was hard enough knock back, because you are dissorented after acting as a living church bell... It is not the actual force of the impact that causes the knock back, but because of the nature of plated armor itself, it will act like a church bell, sending vibrations all throughout the armor... __________________ www.aegis-imperium.com

21st April 2008, 02:23	#3 (permalink)
Stigma Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 35 Rep Power: 1	Well some good ideas here. But, if anything, its the guy with the more mass (ie. the big guy in the full plate armor) thats going to be pushing people around. The same thing will happen as if you try to play tug-of-war with your overweight friend. Unless you are much stronger than him and also have enough traction, its the pure mass(weight) that wins any pushing battle. Oh, and even full plate armor isn't really cumbersome to bear. Its heavy yes, but its balanced over your body, so its not really any more difficult to keep your balance or get up from a fall than if you had no armor on. Its not like your wearing a big sardine can on your head... no one would use plate armor if it actually made significantly less agile as that would spell death in any battle. Just don't try to run a marathon in a full suit (thats why knights had horses after all hehe). -Stigma

21st April 2008, 07:03	#5 (permalink)
Traceur Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 2,880 Rep Power: 8	rag-doll / procedural animation + realistic physics system + pixel-accurate hit-boxes (i can't remember the real name of the coding technique, sorry..) + a table of different material strengths attached to the textures of different object parts = all the ideas above emerging naturally. yep, i like them, and i would like the game to aspire to being a medieval fighting simulator as much as possible.

21st April 2008, 08:54	#6 (permalink)
Ceolas Newbie Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 8 Rep Power: 0	I suppose now that I read that part of my post about the pushing people around I notice I did get it wrong. Wrote it quite late my time, sorry guys. That ability would give some advantage to people based on their character's build etc. Throwing your weight around can be a wonderous thing.