This game isn't just PvP

[Osiris`Mooon]

Originally Posted by dyter

They dont want to limit us so there for Full PvP and the reson there isnt a PvE server is so we dont have to pick the server I.E WoW......

But it offers more PvE than PvP because if im right in sayin one of the reasons most people want to play this game is bcause it said on the trailer "full PvP" to get your attention. You can get attacked anywhere but it doesnt mean that you have to, for all we know we can all just become friends and never kill anyone in-turn eliminating the PvP factor (but as if thats going to happen) :P

You are right in saying i don't have to attack anyone but the thing is, if i want to i can, weather you like it or not. That`s the difference between this game and other so called pvp games.

I don't mind pve sometimes but i prefer PVP and with this being a FFA game ,when i attack you you have no choice but to fight. You will not be able to switch pvp off or run away because you have no choice in this game.

I realise their are penalties for this type of behavior but my point is ,nothing is their to stop me attacking you all day long...if i want.

[dyter]

I havnt had time to read all the replys but it makes me happy that i think i have got my point across

[dyter]

Originally Posted by Osiris`Mooon

You are right in saying i don't have to attack anyone but the thing is, if i want to i can, weather you like it or not. That`s the difference between this game and other so called pvp games.

I don't mind pve sometimes but i prefer PVP and with this being a FFA game ,when i attack you you have no choice but to fight. You will not be able to switch pvp off or run away because you have no choice in this game.

I realise their are penalties for this type of behavior but my point is ,nothing is their to stop me attacking you all day long...if i want.

I know esactly what you are saying and who is to say i wont do the same :P (Not saying that i will) but ive been reading some topics and they are ruined by evetyone resorting to PvP. Someone was looking for a RP guild (cant remember who or what topic) but everyone just completly went off topic and kept saying that there isn't going to be such a thing as RP.

[James Olson]

Originally Posted by dyter

I know esactly what you are saying and who is to say i wont do the same :P (Not saying that i will) but ive been reading some topics and they are ruined by evetyone resorting to PvP. Someone was looking for a RP guild (cant remember who or what topic) but everyone just completly went off topic and kept saying that there isn't going to be such a thing as RP.

I wouldn't be suprised if they released a RP ruleset server.

[Hampo]

Originally Posted by Killermandude

-1, this post is just worthless.
Hate dingo or not he's right, this thread says nothing.
You've been here what, a day? And you've ascertained that the game isn't about PvP? maybe you should double check, 90% of the people here (rough-estimate ) are just here for the pvp, I have my doubts that some people (if it's possible) would even PvE....

Im gonna pve...... to kill time between pvp muhahahahaha.

[dyter]

That quote is incorerrect because killermandude knows what i mean now and that was at the start.

[dyter]

Originally Posted by James Olson

I wouldn't be suprised if they released a RP ruleset server.

Im not sure that they will because i dont think they want it to be like WoW where we pick a realm and stick to it. Im sure the server that they will be using will be able to handle us all on the one realm.

[Bulveigh]

i hope the open just servers from the same kind. Maybe 1, or maybe 50...

i dont know how many players this game will have. But all on 1 server.. i think thats not possible. And dont say "eve can!" now, eve is completely different.

But "Rp" "PvP" "PvM" servers, make the game to "specialized".. i hope they dont open such servers.

[Sarkon]

What's so bad about having every players on a server that specializes in what they like? I don't wanna be stuck with people that think RP is gay or whatever, they'd totally ruin the whole RP experience. And same goes for you, anti-RPers; do you really want to travel with your friends and talk about your week-ends when you suddently come across some idiot bragging his rights about the land you are currently crossing. I think the only reason you don't want more than one type of server is because you actually like to ruin RP events? Or you just want more people to kill without any reason.

Just a speculation, but it does sound that way to me actually.

[Bulveigh]

Me like RP two, but i dont like the seperation. I am a bloodclan orc on UOGamers, and they are RP'ers two. But i would say, these orcs are bigger and more successfull than orcs on a RP server.

The problem is, its extrem spezial. On RP servers, you have to be 24/7 IC, you cannot go out and just pwn some assholes, just cause you want to.
On PvP/PvM servers, noone wants to RP. When you try to make RP community on this shards, everyone tells you "there are RP servers!".

Its not possible to play "the middle".

[thrudgelmir]

Originally Posted by Sarkon

What's so bad about having every players on a server that specializes in what they like? I don't wanna be stuck with people that think RP is gay or whatever, they'd totally ruin the whole RP experience.

So you say people that think rp is gay dont roll on rp-servers? I think most rp is gay, and I roll rp-servers. And I usually have a jolly good time, making rp'ers sad.

[Geo]

lolwut

[dyter]

I think you have posted at a wrong time :P

[Etwynn]

I'd like to see a full-pvp game primarily based around PvE. It's too early to tell whether Mortal could be that game.

[James Olson]

Originally Posted by Etwynn

I'd like to see a full-pvp game primarily based around PvE. It's too early to tell whether Mortal could be that game.

PVP game based around PVE? Right here, MortalOnline. So when you are done killing that dragon, I kill you and take all of the loot. Thats what I call PVE.

[Etwynn]

Originally Posted by James Olson

PVP game based around PVE? Right here, MortalOnline. So when you are done killing that dragon, I kill you and take all of the loot. Thats what I call PVE.

Just because you don't understand what I'm talking about, doesn't indicate that it's meaningless:


Quote:
Hands on ure heart devs. is UO the so far best mmo there was? (thats style of pre trammel game u look for?)

We differ somewhat in our opinion of the best mmo. Henrik would say UO without blinking. Me being more into PvE-with-PtP would say.. ..it hasn't been made yet. At least not in a fantasy setting.
http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/7...questions.html

endQuote

For me, MMORPGs should be about immersion. While it makes sense that you should be able to attack other people (for immersive purposes), it should also be realistic in that being a ruthless murderer doesn't get you very far. I'd like to see a game balanced around this prospect.

[dyter]

Originally Posted by James Olson

Thats what I call PVE.

PvE stands for "Player vs Enviroment"

[James Olson]

Originally Posted by dyter

PvE stands for "Player vs Enviroment"

PVE stands for "My groups waits for you to kill the monster, then we kill you while you have low health"

Why would we kill it ourselves when we can double our loot with all the stuff you are weilding?

[Jangang]

@ OP

I'm not really concerned with what this game (or any other game for that matter) are to you...

They are all about the pvp for me. If the pvp sucks, I stop playing quickly. (Unfortunately that is the case far too often.)

I don't get off on killing bunnies... I never will, and I'm not concerned if you don't like it that I do get off killing you.

[dyter]

Originally Posted by Jangang

@ OP

I'm not really concerned with what this game (or any other game for that matter) are to you...

They are all about the pvp for me. If the pvp sucks, I stop playing quickly. (Unfortunately that is the case far too often.)

I don't get off on killing bunnies... I never will, and I'm not concerned if you don't like it that I do get off killing you.

My OP is to say that the game isnt about PvP not to say that you can't or the PvP will be shit in it. I mean i know some people are just about the PvP so thats up to them, But when ever an rp thing was posted it was flamed by PvP stuff

[Jangang]

Originally Posted by dyter

My OP is to say that the game isnt about PvP not to say that you can't or the PvP will be shit in it. I mean i know some people are just about the PvP so thats up to them, But when ever an rp thing was posted it was flamed by PvP stuff

Thats because RPing is gay...

Deal with it, or <gasp> Role play as if those people are insane, the village idiot, or whatever makes you happy enough to not whine about it.

[Etwynn]

Originally Posted by Jangang

Thats because RPing is gay...

Deal with it, or <gasp> Role play as if those people are insane, the village idiot, or whatever makes you happy enough to not whine about it.

RPing is the wrong word because of the connotations it carries.

A little history lesson, from my point of view:
EQ was born from story-oriented game genres such as muds and tabletop games and gameplay was slightly more oriented towards "becoming" your character (deities, faction restrictions, quest dialog, etc). Initially, there were a lot of RP tagged players on non-RP servers and even more players who didn't RP but did hold some semblance of character. WoW kind of missed the soul of EQ, and made a clone without any of the immersive aspects of EQ. We could argue about whether they intentionally took these out (to shy away from the geek factor) or whether they just removed them in the name of convenience. This game was a success because of its philosophy of convenience over immersion because it brought in new players.

Arguably, WoW set back immersion in MMORPGs at least a decade, because unfortunately, companies like SOE and many others tried to copy this formula verbatim. What they didn't realize is that you can't play the same game twice with the same "feeling." A WoW clone, even if a good one, will always be a WoW clone and players will be bored unless they get something new. But the raging success of WoW necessitated that clones be made. And they were. Much thought was given to where the 9+ million WoW players would go next. Stupidly, game companies marketed products around another game's playerbase. They defined WoW players as exactly what the companies shouldn't have thought of them (ie, players looking for something different) but instead assumed that they liked World of Warcraft. And this isn't to say that WoW players don't like WoW. They do. People who like the game, will keep playing the game. But eventually, everyone quits. Game companies should have marketed WoW-burnouts with something new. Because once you burn out of WoW, it's pretty damn hard to play a WoW clone. So WoW attracts millions of new MMORPG players, and makes them sick of item farming and level grinding.

But what else is there? Video games are largely about character development, but if making wtfpwn factor (ie, character strength) bigger is already too played (read: old, boring, cliche) to be the focus of the game, what else is there? For one, giving players power to control spheres of influence outside of themselves through sandbox pvp is a different direction in which we can take character development. But these spheres of influence (territory, trade, item production, etc) need some sort of contextual backdrop. The game will be completely soul-less, like WoW, if it's just another game of whack-a-mole with upgraded graphics and more open pvp. Controlling areas for items would be no different than grinding faction for items in WoW battlegrounds. It's circular--fight to win to fight better to win to fight better etc. But when your struggle is put in context of something greater, it can achieve meaning. Now most players won't go out of their way to create a story and stick to it (traditional RPing) because it's too "make-believe" for some people. But if players are given a good, dynamic story-line where they can change the very history of the world, I think this a compelling improvement over character power accumulation.

For this reason, I think that the game should be designed around a central "evil" PvE legion/force/army/whatever that spends as much time coming after you as you do fighting it. If players had to deal with this PvE faction and PvP, people would be more inclined to play characters they can live with, doing heroic acts rather than killing people for the lulz. Basically, good immersive, extensive, and intrusive PvE adds depth to PvP.

I guess what I'm saying is that if all people do is PvP, then there isn't enough to do.

[Sarvoth]

The game has full open pvp and will have full looting.

The game is about PvP primarily. PvE will take a role in selected events that may require NPCs to be involved - or about as much PvE as you probably saw in Ultima Online (various monsters of various strengths in the wilderness and in dungeons). But the idea of the game will be driven by PvP.

I would like to label a new acronym... Player vs Player Environment. PVPE stands for a game in my opinion, that isn't so concerned with what is PvP and what is PvE, but what really matters - the players shaping their world. It is obvious that if the game is going to be an open sandbox for players - there has to be PVP, there has to be full looting - because those are essential attributes and tools for players to have weight in changing their world. Second, you will have the ability to shape it further with player cities, domains, and more to fight over. This is the environment that the players will set up, that other players will ally or war with one another for.

Finally, the closest we will come to PvE hopefully in MO, will be special bosses (That they stated will only exist once) and other events driven by the developers to entice player versus player environments to crop up and push us to developing the game world further.

Just remember, this game is about the stereotypical term that is PvP. Whereas, the stereotypical meaning of PvE will come in the form of a tool to drive more PvP, but it won't ever be like what you see as PvE in games like Everquest or World of Warcraft, where PvP is a tool to take a break from massive amounts of linear PvE that the developers decide you must take. Remember, in those kind of games, you have no control whatsoever of your game world. In MO, things will be different, so it could never be the same as WoW, EQ, or even AoC in many regards.

[Jangang]

@ Etwynn,

I can see your point of view I guess. Not that I entirely agree with it, but I can see what you are saying, and where you are coming from.

To me, PVP is the purpose. But it has to be done right, or its just not fun, (WoW battlegrounds for example). There has to be more then an engine, some skills, some equipment and open pvp yea... That being said I'm not the sort who cares about lore, or quests or any of that stuff. When I do quests (rarely) I very seldom read them, and when I do its only because I can't find what I need. All that is just fluff, and isn't really needed imho.

Now that isn't to say I would have a problem w/ good lore, a back story, and mobs that hunt you rather then wait for you to hunt them, etc... (Though that last bit might could be interesting, its still pve, which might make it more of an annoyance then anything else.)

Of course it should be noted that I often don't even read the chat. Its often just an annoyance that gets in the way of my pking. Though I'm usually in Vent w/ my guild when playing an MMO so I don't really need to either.

[Sarvoth]

Originally Posted by Etwynn

For this reason, I think that the game should be designed around a central "evil" PvE legion/force/army/whatever that spends as much time coming after you as you do fighting it. If players had to deal with this PvE faction and PvP, people would be more inclined to play characters they can live with, doing heroic acts rather than killing people for the lulz. Basically, good immersive, extensive, and intrusive PvE adds depth to PvP.

Why can't this "evil" NPC faction be an "evil" player faction? I mean, why should the developers, like many cookie-cutter item based MMOs, tell me what is "Evil". Maybe I agree with that evil, maybe I should have a choice. How does being linear = immersive? It is anti-immersive in many regards.

Why do people watch Soap Operas? Why do people watch Wrestling? Because it is a story that never ends - and endless drama that pictures humans with other humans. Naturally, an open sandbox game would give us the ability to do the same thing. Conflict will be created from player to player, not from player to non-player character.

The best kind of immersiveness you could receive is in a realm that is not scripted - that is guided by real people - not a single road paved by a developer for you to follow - a road you cannot branch off from.

Having a PvE evil faction is against all of this. It would be more fun and immersive to be against a faction I considered, evil, that was player ran. Then it is human, then it is unpredictable, then it has life to it and emotion. Killing a million AI NPC has no feeling behind it other than you defeating a scripted object in a video game.

If you feel that PvP will just fall into a boreing conundrum of PKs killing for "lulz" then I don't think you have ever played a real open ended, full pvp, full loot sandbox MMO. Yes, there will be Player Killers, griefing and "lulzing" away all day. But there will be those who rise up and ban up, under the Anti-PK flag and form groups to hunt and kill people like this. Only this could arise in such a game, if you think that having less ability over the world, and more scripted AI NPCs as more immersive... then I am not sure we could ever agree on this.

[Etwynn]

Originally Posted by Sarvoth

Why can't this "evil" NPC faction be an "evil" player faction? I mean, why should the developers, like many cookie-cutter item based MMOs, tell me what is "Evil". Maybe I agree with that evil, maybe I should have a choice. How does being linear = immersive? It is anti-immersive in many regards.

the evil faction can't be players for several reasons:
A) For the story to be truly epic, you have to be the underdog. It would be unfair to give randomly individual guilds increased power, forces, etc just for RP. And while its true that some guilds will be more powerful than others, other player guilds will keep them in check, keeping sides relatively balanced.
B) Alluding back to my earlier points that most MMO pla