Skills

[osteo]

This thread was created to start giving and discussing some skill ideas.
keep in mind that i am under the impression that if this is a skill based game, and that there are classes but they werent written in stone on what you could do. In uo if you didnt know how or what to do u could pick of a cookie cutter template that was already made when you went to create your char, or go with what you wanted to do. This is how im assuming its going to be if someone knows something else plz let me know in this thread and ill change it and keep going. Here is a list and a start of what i think would be cool.

1) Bard skills => controlling other monsters through song.
2) Engineering/Tinkering skills
3) Healing skill => not through first aid this would make a more in depth healing class besides just the healing spells given through spells.
4) Rez skill => This would be an advanced first aid skill and it would be pretty cool if a caster healer picked this up and somehow this skill would benefit him

The following is a very general way of explaining skills to bring more classes then the original uo brought if this is a bad idea was just a thought

1) Necro/warlock skills
2) Druid skills
3) Vampire skills (hold on i know this may sound gay but hear me out)
a) lets say all you do in game is murder people to no end where you dont care what the reprocusions are. well part of a vampire is eating them lets let this class do this and make it a must or you get some kind of debuff or something, but if you do this right you get rewarded and you can play the class with the purks whatever those are. Ooh and how you become one could be cool to figure out too.

Here are some questions i bring up should there be Specialized weapon skills.
like you really love a sword and prefer to use a sword so you focused all your training in a sword so you get some kind of modifier. Or another could be duel wielding weapons etc?

Come on yall lets throw some ideas around at least i didnt bring up the ffa thread thing so lets have some fun with this.

if not they could make like a knight skill that unlocks these specializations.
5)

[yXXe]

First off, I'm sick of bards, gleemens and what else, enough of that in Vanguard and Lord of the Rings online o.O
I don't remember if I have the class system Star Vault are aiming for, in my head yet, but as far as I know, there will be three "classes": the standard Warrior, Archer and Mage.
Pick one, and choose whatever direction you want from there. It's all up to you.
At least that's what I though I've read so far. So as necro/warlocks/druids/ubergods will probably have their own spells, you won't be restricted by it.

[James Olson]

From how how I understand their class system, each class would be a "bucket" of which you have a pool of skills available. So the warrior would have a set of skills which would unsuprisingly include things such as swordsmanship, blocking, what ever else have you. But also they would have the ability to have a shallow reach into other classes bucket. So if they wanted to learn how to cast a fireball, they can invest some points into doing so. The more advanced mage spells would be off limits to other classes.

And just for mentioning necromancer class/skills in context of UO makes me want to punch you in the face.

[F0rd]

The way I understood classes (I love how we all interpreted them differently) was that any character could learn the basic skills up to a certain skill cap for the basic skills. Once a player reached a level cap in the right basic skills, "class skills" would become available to train in, such as advanced elemental magic for mages, accuracy for archers, and skill with a sword and shield for warriors. While still a "class" system, it would (hopefully) still be based around character skills, and specializing in a certain class would give advantages a player wouldn't otherwise gain.

Another sort of class "specialization" could be prestige classes that are opened to a player once they reach a certain level of skill in different combinations of skills, be that a battle mage (combination warrior/mage), fully fledged knight templar (full warrior spec), pyromancer (specialized mage) or ranger of the forests(full archer spec).

[osteo]

Im sorry i didnt elaborate right but that is exactly what i was talking about i wanted everyone to come up with some cool skills and what they thought would be fun in the game.

As for you yxxe uo had bard skills it might not have been a true bard but i think i remember that one skill called "discordance" this skill allowed you to take control of monters.

Ford and olson where did you find out this information cuz i want to be caught up with you guys?

[Stump]

Originally Posted by osteo

Im sorry i didnt elaborate right but that is exactly what i was talking about i wanted everyone to come up with some cool skills and what they thought would be fun in the game.

As for you yxxe uo had bard skills it might not have been a true bard but i think i remember that one skill called "discordance" this skill allowed you to take control of monters.

Ford and olson where did you find out this information cuz i want to be caught up with you guys?

Discordance is debuff skill, it's somehow making monsters weaker. Peacemaking making monsters to sleep.

[James Olson]

Originally Posted by osteo

Im sorry i didnt elaborate right but that is exactly what i was talking about i wanted everyone to come up with some cool skills and what they thought would be fun in the game.

As for you yxxe uo had bard skills it might not have been a true bard but i think i remember that one skill called "discordance" this skill allowed you to take control of monters.

Ford and olson where did you find out this information cuz i want to be caught up with you guys?

from the FAQ:

"The skills you can learn are restricted by your class, this means that a warrior cannot learn each and every magic school, for example."

And within the context of UO, thats the way I would assume it would work. In UO you had all skills available to you, no classes at all. Since they are limiting skills to classes, but not all of them. By that comment in the FAQ you can imagine all skills will NOT be mutually exclusive to individual classes. If you pick the warrior class, perhaps from the start you can start training fireball. Why not. But the higher up spells may be off limits to you.

[Traceur]

i see many contradictions between what everyone is thinking and the quotes, and at this point i'm not sure what i'm thinking..

so to help the conversation, all the skill-class related quotes:

Are there class restrictions? What classes will I be able to play?
You will have many different classes to choose from ranging from the traditional warrior, thief and mage types to some special classes intimately connected to the game world. Also, some classes are reserved for veteran players: e a number of achievements in the game that will determine your official (or unofficial, if you choose to hide it) status.

Mortal Online will have class restrictions for several reasons, the main one being that we want to encourage interaction between players. For instance, forming an independent guild that can manage entirely on its own will require a broad spectrum of characters, not just a few with all the necessary skills. The same goes for the lone wolf warrior – to be really successful in the world you need to interact with other characters by studying for them or at least by purchasing crafted goods you cannot make on your own.

You are not limited to one character and one class though. Your Deva (account) can hold several characters that will benefit from each other in different ways.

how many classes are you planning on implementing?
As with races, we will present them properly one at a time.
Hopefully there will be enough class variety. It's also a matter of combining Skills.
All Classes are somewhat multiclass as it's a matter of what Skills you choose. I can't go into detail about fighter-mages, blacksmith-assassins etc at this time though

How many character levels are there in Mortal Online?
None. We have no levels and therefore no level restrictions - i.e. certain levels needed to reach an area or to be able to handle a specific sword. You are free to travel the world in any way you like, limited only by the terrain, mode of conveyance or dangers in the environment. In the same way you can use any sword you like, provided you have the necessary skills to wield it.
How does the skill system work?
Skills are very important in Mortal Online, as they define what you can and cannot do, sometimes even what you can and cannot see. The skills you can learn are restricted by your class, this means that a warrior cannot learn each and every magic school, for example.

Two types of skills are Action Skills and Learning Skills. Action Skills will typically be trained by being used in the game, while the majority of Learning Skills are trained in the background and requires some time.

To lessen the tedious work of training a character from scratch, if you for example want to alternate your play time between a mage and a blacksmith, we have a group of skills called World Skills. The World Skills are connected to your Deva and will improve no matter what type of characters you are playing. This way if one of your characters for example explore the map or learn about history, so does all of the other characters connected to your Deva.

More intricate details of how the skill system works will be described later.

how are the skill trees work without leveling?
When using a Skill, you get better at it.
All Skills are connected to (based on) your main Attributes. When you train a Skill, you also train your Attributes. When gaining in an Attribute, so will your Skills connected to that Attribute.
When you want to learn a new Skill, you'll have to meet the prerequisites (mostly Attributes and Skills) and buy a book or find someone willing to tutor you. On some occasions, you can also discover and learn Skills by just.. ..doing things.

Will there be a limit to the amount of skill points you can allocate?
Yes and no. It's hard to explain without digging to deep: The Primary Skills will have limits, as they are a prerequisite for the Class Skills. The Class Skills won't have limits. In short, you will have to choose for your character whether to become the world's greatest herbalist or swordmaster, as it can't be both due to its Primary Skills.

If the game has a Realistic Combat system, how are you planning to balance classes and skills and more importantly make them diverse?
I really don't know how to answer that. Via excessive testing, testing, and more testing. And eventually, beta-testing.
Also, it's a matter of what you mean by balance and diversity. A warrior-class character is naturally focused on warfare, and won't have a very "balanced" fight against a trader-class character focused on commerce.

[Traceur]

1) each skill has a governing attribute. when you train the skil, the attribute rises, and when an attribute rises, it improves the related skills.

2) some skills are learned by practicing them (UO), other skills improve over time (EVE?)

3) some skills for all classes, but are prerequisite for the Class Skills, and it seems you allocate exp to them arifically? each classs has class-specific skills (which you need to buy a book or someone wiling to tutor you to find?).

4) some skills are per character, other skills are for all your characters on that server (lore skills only?).

5) we know they are planning many different classes and that they are aiming towards a veraity, not just the usual 3. we know only about the usual warrior, thief & mage, we know about a etherworld (Afterlife) related character-type called a channeler which may be a class (i hope) but it could also be a type of NPC, we know that many hybrid options will be presented as their own classes, and we know their will be crafting-specific classes.


now that i look at it without making any asumptions... it is utterly confusing. we have 3 axises for skills (world-character/primary-class/learning-action), we can only guess which is which... and you need to learn the basic skill from a books/NPCs/(other players?) ?

[yXXe]

Sounds to me like they are taking a the system from Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion. That's bloody brilliant.

[Geo]

There better be some sort of pickpocket/thievery

[Abydos]

First, i say NO CLASSE PLZ !

[F0rd]

Originally Posted by Abydos

First, i say NO CLASSE PLZ !

We all say "no classes please," but they've decided that the best way to implement some sort of character progression would be classes, and I'm going to assume that they've been working with the specifics of the system and know what works best for balance in this game. Purely skill based systems may have been possible in the past, and will certainly be possible in the future, but for whatever reason the developers (UO veterans, the lot of them) have decided that they feel classes are what's better for game play at the moment.

[OMGPIE]

The main skills I want to see are the important ones like smithing, mining, alchemy, and whatever else every other game has but some new ones that are different would be nice like...teaching people how to use weapons or an innkeeper or something.

[Welwordion]

A gardening skill, or call it plant manipulition ^-^, skills like climbing, running, maybe swimming,(class skill movement,class athlete?) well maybe a hearing, maybe a smelling skill but definetly a tracking skill.(seeing footprints)

[Shurt]

Originally Posted by Abydos

First, i say NO CLASSE PLZ !

/Agree. Let players choose what skills they want to train in....

[Mirth]

Let players choose what skills they want to train in...

Then we again will meet useless skills and combinations, 'cause over time there will be calculated a most suitable build for each type of activity, be it PvP, PvM, crafting, mining, buffing or anything else - so here we are, virtually no classes, but in fact they will be present anyways.

I may be saying a seditious thing, but (cover your ears) i think that the game does not need any clear-out skill system. If you are repeating something over and over - it will be done better with the passing of time. If you're doing it when overcoming a hardship - it will be better in a shorter passing of time. That's all.
There may be stats to represent a body/mind build of a character, there may be some perks (as in my unique abilities idea), but no skills please
Therefore, no classes at all, and no need of them too.

[Chon]

If you read it you will chose just by using the skills.

Skills are very important in Mortal Online, as they define what you can and cannot do, sometimes even what you can and cannot see. The skills you can learn are restricted by your class, this means that a warrior cannot learn each and every magic school, for example.

So even though there will be classes you will be able to learn other skills. So if I read that section from the DEVs correclty, a warrior should be able to learn some basic healing spells if you spend the time learning them. That is some thing nice and new, having a specific class helps those that do not have the mental capacity to develop a well rounded Character on there own to do so. Why be a jack of all trades, Master of none? If you dont have to be. To many times you will end up with a weak ass Char that gets owned by every one.

[Mirth]

Yes, yes, i know 'bout devs' position on this. Just sketching a plan for my furure mmo or mmo project which i'll give away to someone able and willing to realize

[osteo]

Right on, Wow so its kinda similar to what uo was but you have to actually choose a class?

[Vanndal]

A strong warrior with a few low level healing spells and some weapon enchantment spells could make him into a much more formidable warrior then one who doesn't :P.