Mob behaviour

Sarkon · 22nd April 2008, 19:48

Ok.
Scenario 1: Let's say i'm roaming in a dark forest, and then I hear some noise. I realise that i'm being followed by a pack of wolves that I just spotted. They slowly surround me and then they approach gently as I look at them but I clearly see there is no way of escaping.

Scenario 2: Roaming in the dark forest again. I hear noises but I don't really care. It seems it's getting closer and closer but why should I do something about it? And then suddenly, a bunch a wolves jump me from behind and I realize I should've checked out that noise.

Scenario 3 : I roam in the dark forest. I suddenly see a wolf. I get closer and it notices me. It starts to attack me. I kill it.

What are the best scenarios in your opinion? My point here is that I hope mobs will have certain behaviour and they won't jump see you and start attack you.

Aireus · 22nd April 2008, 20:25

You are talking about a mob AI that would first of all react to sounds and smells (some animals have greater sensory function for smell than for sight), and by that make a decision to investigate or hide.
After that you, if they chose to investigate, they would decide whether they would be able to attack and win without suffering losses (or if they are attacking in a pack, if the losses would be at a level where it was acceptable for the prey they managed to catch).
After chosing to attack, it would (or they if it's a pack animal) would have to decide amongst themselves how to attack, if that's not a pre-programmed function as pack animals usually have similair behaviour in aggressive movements whether or not there is one or two targets.

Basically, it's got three choices to make, before they attack.

I like the idea, not having an aggro zone or such, because that's a rather daft system. If they see you, the see you. It's not like you are invisible standing 40meters away.
I like all the options really

Shinzon · 22nd April 2008, 21:02

The reason most MMO's have "Zombie Mobs" is because they don't want to load the server with complicated AI, and if you use the client to help the server out, there is a high change that the client can alter what he is sending, and basicly exploit the hell out of a mob.

Think to the many FPS games out there, they probably feature the best AI, you are going to ever see, and it seems like even there the developers have stoped innovating, there is essentialy no "Group AI" every single charachter is using the same lonewolf AI, which results in spectacularly dumb behaviour...

Laius · 28th May 2008, 04:59

Based on the three original scenarios, I took that what you really liked about scenario three was that there were fewer mobs to encounter. 1:1 is better than 1:5. Not to overlook your post Shinzon but, in the case that it could be possible and to further the idea generation process, what if it wasn't every wolf in the pack that made the decision. What if it was the pack AI that made the decision. Then, rather than all of them going about their own course, all the units of the wolf pack would have their own roles and places in the attack where they would go to. I don't know how clear that is but what I mean is: Is it possible to lessen the separate AI processing and still make the group AI work well? I'm not an AI expert (though I wrote a report on it once, lolz real life AI is a little different from video game AI) so input from someone with experience is welcome.

Shinzon · 28th May 2008, 08:43

You can go pretty crazy with ingame AI, but no matter how you look at it, most of the time if it is running anything complicated, it's going to bog down the server. So the best bet in "Good AI" would be to use tricks to make the AI seem smart, while in reality it is dumb as a log...

I talked in another thread about "Migration Nodes" for the MOBs to follow, to give an illusion that they aren't just dumb as hell. Combat AI can be made interesting by programing "Roles" for each mob depending to it's position to the player and it's own abilities, and as a result that specific routine tells them what to do. And example 3 wolves. One Alpha wolf, and two young pups. The player stubmles on the pup and starts whacking away at it not realising the other 2. The sub routine tells the cub to run to the alpha wolf and then keep running away from the player. The alpha wolf is told to attack the player non stop, the cubs will keep running as long as they are being targeted, as soon as they are not; they return and proceed to bite the player... So you got theese little annoying buggers coming and running away at you; while this big wolf is biting your head off...

Am I just ranting? I think so...

22nd April 2008, 19:48	#1 (permalink)
Sarkon Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Quebec Age: 18 Posts: 63 Rep Power: 1	Mob behaviour Ok. Scenario 1: Let's say i'm roaming in a dark forest, and then I hear some noise. I realise that i'm being followed by a pack of wolves that I just spotted. They slowly surround me and then they approach gently as I look at them but I clearly see there is no way of escaping. Scenario 2: Roaming in the dark forest again. I hear noises but I don't really care. It seems it's getting closer and closer but why should I do something about it? And then suddenly, a bunch a wolves jump me from behind and I realize I should've checked out that noise. Scenario 3 : I roam in the dark forest. I suddenly see a wolf. I get closer and it notices me. It starts to attack me. I kill it. What are the best scenarios in your opinion? My point here is that I hope mobs will have certain behaviour and they won't jump see you and start attack you. __________________ ]

22nd April 2008, 20:25	#2 (permalink)
Aireus Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 35 Rep Power: 1	You are talking about a mob AI that would first of all react to sounds and smells (some animals have greater sensory function for smell than for sight), and by that make a decision to investigate or hide. After that you, if they chose to investigate, they would decide whether they would be able to attack and win without suffering losses (or if they are attacking in a pack, if the losses would be at a level where it was acceptable for the prey they managed to catch). After chosing to attack, it would (or they if it's a pack animal) would have to decide amongst themselves how to attack, if that's not a pre-programmed function as pack animals usually have similair behaviour in aggressive movements whether or not there is one or two targets. Basically, it's got three choices to make, before they attack. I like the idea, not having an aggro zone or such, because that's a rather daft system. If they see you, the see you. It's not like you are invisible standing 40meters away. I like all the options really __________________ Only after one has lost everything, can one be free to gain anything!

22nd April 2008, 21:02	#3 (permalink)
Shinzon Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Toronto, Ontario Age: 19 Posts: 987 Rep Power: 3	The reason most MMO's have "Zombie Mobs" is because they don't want to load the server with complicated AI, and if you use the client to help the server out, there is a high change that the client can alter what he is sending, and basicly exploit the hell out of a mob. Think to the many FPS games out there, they probably feature the best AI, you are going to ever see, and it seems like even there the developers have stoped innovating, there is essentialy no "Group AI" every single charachter is using the same lonewolf AI, which results in spectacularly dumb behaviour... __________________ www.aegis-imperium.com

28th May 2008, 08:43	#5 (permalink)
Shinzon Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Toronto, Ontario Age: 19 Posts: 987 Rep Power: 3	You can go pretty crazy with ingame AI, but no matter how you look at it, most of the time if it is running anything complicated, it's going to bog down the server. So the best bet in "Good AI" would be to use tricks to make the AI seem smart, while in reality it is dumb as a log... I talked in another thread about "Migration Nodes" for the MOBs to follow, to give an illusion that they aren't just dumb as hell. Combat AI can be made interesting by programing "Roles" for each mob depending to it's position to the player and it's own abilities, and as a result that specific routine tells them what to do. And example 3 wolves. One Alpha wolf, and two young pups. The player stubmles on the pup and starts whacking away at it not realising the other 2. The sub routine tells the cub to run to the alpha wolf and then keep running away from the player. The alpha wolf is told to attack the player non stop, the cubs will keep running as long as they are being targeted, as soon as they are not; they return and proceed to bite the player... So you got theese little annoying buggers coming and running away at you; while this big wolf is biting your head off... Am I just ranting? I think so... __________________ www.aegis-imperium.com

28th May 2008, 04:59	#4 (permalink)
Laius Junior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Florida Age: 20 Posts: 34 Rep Power: 1	Based on the three original scenarios, I took that what you really liked about scenario three was that there were fewer mobs to encounter. 1:1 is better than 1:5. Not to overlook your post Shinzon but, in the case that it could be possible and to further the idea generation process, what if it wasn't every wolf in the pack that made the decision. What if it was the pack AI that made the decision. Then, rather than all of them going about their own course, all the units of the wolf pack would have their own roles and places in the attack where they would go to. I don't know how clear that is but what I mean is: Is it possible to lessen the separate AI processing and still make the group AI work well? I'm not an AI expert (though I wrote a report on it once, lolz real life AI is a little different from video game AI) so input from someone with experience is welcome.