PvP - instanced or wild ?

[BloodofDragons]

why is this up for debate or a pole? we know it is a full pvp (no zones) game? the only zoning type in the game will be PKing in larger towns/cities and that's only because of guards.

arenas in towns would be cool for any mmo specially for gambling and making extra cash.

personally i hate any kind of instances in an mmo. it just does not feel real. i hate going in a dungeon and only see your group/fellow when there was 50 players outside going in and out of the same place. of course i know why instances are used in mmos now and that is because of campers. people camping quest bosses can be a pain in the butt. i remember playing asheron's call on patch day and seeing 500+ players waiting in line (not that there ever was a line just who ever got the kill) in the room for the new quests. but in a full pvp it may not be so bad. an other thing instances are good for, possibly is helping with the lag. i would think that it's easier on the server to govern sections of the world instead of one massive world with millions of things going on at the same time.

[Dagger]

Originally Posted by Milarepa

Open PvP for sure. But arenas / challenges / PvP missions where you can arrange guild or group fights are nice, as long as it's not the main source of PvP

This sounds cool, but I surely hope there will be no instanced PvP in this game. Or, at least if there will be some instanced PvP, do not reward it any more than other PvP.

You can easily see that in a game like WoW, rewarding instanced PvP ruins just about any wild PvP. The only PvP you can find there, even on a "PvP server," is the kind where a few people from a guild has gathered and one-shots everything that passes. Noone even bothers to take up the fight (very rarely), because most of those who would do that are inside the Battlegrounds or Arenas, anyway. It simply doesn't work out well, even if it was a nice idea to provide more PvP options to the gamer at first.

Edit
Though, note that I am not opposed to arenas and proper battlegrounds. Just instanced types where you can avoid contact with the rest of the world.

[lgnlint]

needs open PvP for sure

[Tabor]

It doesnt feel like PvP when you have to wait in line to get into it, if I want to wait in line to have fun I'll go to an amusement park.

[Veith]

Sometimes if someone is arguing for 'wild' PvP it sounds like single players would raging around without any sense. Wild sounds like not able to organise and without any relevant results for the gameworld after combat.
But i am sure a well organised team would be more successfull in a PvP game than only wild brainless beasts. But designing a fantasyworld with a sense behind PvP there must be dynamic gameplay also for regions, towns, areals. And sure best no zones, no padded cells for special mad event (the whole world must be crazy )
So wild is surely the false word, because it suggerates gameplay without any tactics and senseless raiding would be the reason for only success.
No wild PvP, but a pure PvP game is what i want. If anyone is knowing its a PvP game there must not be a discussion where its possible, and when. Combat (and not only hunting mobs) as a real MMOG content will be everytime possible.
But we will se if lonewolfs are clever enough or really only rabid dogs.
But give the devs a chance to design a pure PvP and not only a next PvE MMORPG with some PvP possibilities, it must be designed gameplay for PvP, not only a platform with PvP.

[Lyllyth]

Originally Posted by Veith

Sometimes if someone is arguing for 'wild' PvP it sounds like single players would raging around without any sense.

Welcome to humanity.

Originally Posted by Veith

Wild sounds like not able to organise and without any relevant results for the gameworld after combat.

See above.

Originally Posted by Veith

But i am sure a well organised team would be more successfull in a PvP game than only wild brainless beasts.

Obviously.

Originally Posted by Veith

But designing a fantasyworld with a sense behind PvP there must be dynamic gameplay also for regions, towns, areals. And sure best no zones, no padded cells for special mad event (the whole world must be crazy )

Some can step out their front door for that... but continue...

Originally Posted by Veith

So wild is surely the false word, because it suggerates gameplay without any tactics and senseless raiding would be the reason for only success.

"Reason" is a false claim to begin with...

Originally Posted by Veith

No wild PvP, but a pure PvP game is what i want.

You want it to be structured and organised? I might suggest this game.

Originally Posted by Veith

If anyone is knowing its a PvP game there must not be a discussion where its possible, and when. Combat (and not only hunting mobs) as a real MMOG content will be everytime possible.

"When" and "where" gone? Well, that leaves, "Who", "What", "Why" and "How".

Originally Posted by Veith

But we will se if lonewolfs are clever enough or really only rabid dogs.

The "rabid dogs" are usually the ones barking at the end of their leash. To continue with the metaphore. =)

Originally Posted by Veith

But give the devs a chance to design a pure PvP and not only a next PvE MMORPG with some PvP possibilities, it must be designed gameplay for PvP, not only a platform with PvP.

"chance" = "try"
"Do or do not, there is no try."

[Veith]

@Lyllyth, you are only nearly right, devs will have a try for realising MO No try would mean they will not programm. Also for any action you need at least 'one' try.
So the only best MMOG is the not developed?

[IamBlood]

i hope its freee for all pvp with no other instant is to run and hide in

[Lyllyth]

Originally Posted by Veith

So the only best MMOG is the not developed?

That's a matter of perspective...

My perfect MMORPG is not developed, nor do I see it in development anywhere. So I have to settle for things that come as close as I can find. MO sounds like it might come close, but I'll find out when I get to play.
Another game that may come close, is Ryzom. But again, I'll have to play it to find out.

Character, Social and Economic development are the things I focus on (as is probably evident in my post trend), if a game lacks in those, I lose interest. As for PvP, I don't care one way or the other, Full PvP, No PvP, Partial PvP... As long as the PvP has meaning in the game world, unlike a lot of games. "...Horde are attacking Ironforge, should I defend it? Meh, the NPCs will be back in 5 minutes anyways..." Pointless.

Playability is also important. One thing Blizzard did correctly was the intuitive controls of WoW. Having played EQ, then WoW, then EQ again, WoW made EQ's controls feel like controlling a brick on wheels. The player should be free to consider environment, abilities and tactics, the controls themselves should be intuitive/fluid enough to become second nature.

Also important, is a dynamic world. How many times can you kill the same dragon? Why is it that no matter how many items this NPC is brought, he still needs more? Why was I told that performing this task would bring victory to this battle, but nothing happened when I did it? In the real world, a tactical assassination could bring about the fall of an army, in current MMOs it gives you a bit of xp, maybe some other reward, but nothing changes cause the NPC you killed was back before you could get out of the encampment.

NPC to NPC interaction... A well designed, persistent game world should live and thrive with or without the player base. The creatures that inhabit the game world should not just sit stagnate, waiting for a Player to come along. Wolves are reknowned for their hunting tactics in the real world, they hunt as a pack, surrounding their victim and lunging at their backs. Name one game that treats wolves properly.

... And why the hell do creatures always fly 3-4 feet off the ground!?!?

....
.....
...... Sorry, this turned into a rant...

[Unomat]

Lyllyth, you really need to play Ryzom (free trial opening again soon) ^^ Ryzom Ring is also being resurrected btw

[Zoe-SiN]

Wild PvP (everywhere in the world).


the way it should be!

[L-C]

Instancing is the cancer that's killing mmos. It has no place in any mmo especially a sandbox game.

[Vertigo]

I wouldn't play this game if it was instanced PvP... we have enough bad mmo's that do that just fine.

[ketrine]

wild - because that's the kind of game MO is.

[mojoman]

open wild PVP for shure...

[Lyllyth]

Originally Posted by Unomat

Lyllyth, you really need to play Ryzom (free trial opening again soon) ^^ Ryzom Ring is also being resurrected btw

I've had it downloaded and installed for a week now, just waiting for account creation to open. =)

[Veith]

Originally Posted by L-C

Instancing is the cancer that's killing mmos. It has no place in any mmo especially a sandbox game.

Instances with the ability to seperate players from each others are 100% Anti MMOGameplay.
Then its only a multiacountserver, but not a multiplayergame.

[Lyllyth]

Originally Posted by Veith

Instances with the ability to seperate players from each others are 100% Anti MMOGameplay.
Then its only a multiacountserver, but not a multiplayergame.

Well, if Instancing is used more to separate areas and not people.... Such as "zones", I don't think it would be game breaking.

Keeping in that line... I can see Instancing being used for Player Housing... I don't mean an area where the houses are located, I mean the inside of the houses themselves. Not an instance for each player or group, but the house itself is one instance.... perhaps.

This is not to say that I think the Devs should do it like this, just saying that it doesn't have to mean player separation.

I'm also not saying I agree with most of Stavro's post, as I think Instancing should be kept to a minimum. I do believe that is what the Devs have in mind, minimal use of Instancing.

[L-C]

Originally Posted by Lyllyth

Well, if Instancing is used more to separate areas and not people.... Such as "zones", I don't think it would be game breaking.

I don't count zones as instancing. An instance is a duplicated area in a game where players in the same area are not be able to see or interact with each other. I believe the first mmo to use instancing was Anarchy Online.

Instancing should not be used for housing either. It has no place anywhere in an mmo.

[IcePillow]

Think that's pretty obvious, open PvP!

[Alaster]

Instancing/zoning whatever, should have no place in this game.

Should ask one question: if we put this in, will it reduce world pvp? If yes then don't do it.

The MMO community has plenty of alternative games if they want to play 'safely' in a pvp environment. A great example of a terrible idea is what FC is doing to AoC. Security blanket systems should not even be thought of in MO. Please please.

[Morkth]

if there is instance pvp.... the npc you que from better be in the woods in the middle of no where, so the hardcore players can gank the instance hugging carebears and full loot them before they zone into their arena.


I come from the days of full PK MUDS and nothing i've played since has been close to the feeling of constantly looking over your shoulder for the next guy trying to take you down, or the joy of full looting that dude who just got a sweet piece of quest eq. i once logged a character off inside of a rival guilds clan hall for 2 weeks waiting for my target to log on, after it took me 5 hours of randomly teleporting before i ended up there. Killing that guy was well worth the wait, cause he had killed me previously... I set out to get my gear back and thats what i did.

[Blade]

I want to kill anyone anytime anywhere.

Beside this, Instanced Championships/Tournaments/Seasons are totally ok

[Zwackelzahn]

Originally Posted by Morkth

i once logged a character off inside of a rival guilds clan hall for 2 weeks waiting for my target to log on, after it took me 5 hours of randomly teleporting before i ended up there. Killing that guy was well worth the wait, cause he had killed me previously... I set out to get my gear back and thats what i did.

your my kinda guy! Welcome to the forum!

[Lachrymose]

Originally Posted by Alaster

Instancing/zoning whatever, should have no place in this game.

Should ask one question: if we put this in, will it reduce world pvp? If yes then don't do it.

The MMO community has plenty of alternative games if they want to play 'safely' in a pvp environment. A great example of a terrible idea is what FC is doing to AoC. Security blanket systems should not even be thought of in MO. Please please.

yes, instanced pvp would reduce the amount of world pvp b/c those pvpers who want to get their "fix" without having to put themselves at too much risk might be tempted to just go to the instances. instanced pvp just doesn't belong in MO (instances in general for that matter).

[Arxon Havenloft]

I agree that isntanced PvP is great in terms of balance, fair fighting, and for how quickly you can get a battle going. However, it also diminishes pvp throughout the world. Because of that, no instanced pvp should be in MO.