Mining and Gold.

Geoff · 5th May 2008, 18:27

Ok I always thought about this in UO. When your out mining and you dig up Gold ore. Why cant you make coins out of that gold? wouldnt it make more sense to make gold out of it then a weapon. I mean gold isnt very good for crafting anyways. Its heavy and soft LOL.

Make gold bars out of it. Take it to a bank and sell it for coins. Guilds could use "caravans" to transport a larg amount of gold bars to a bank. Of course the whole guild will need to go with all the miners to protect the shipment.

Maybe a guild is too stronge to "capture" thier gold mines, But didnt protect their shipment enough. LOL

Landor · 5th May 2008, 21:27

Ahhh why would you make weapons out of gold? Gold is only good to make jewelry.

But yea it would be a good idea for what your talking about, making them into bars and then taking them to a bank to sell. Would make the reason to join a guild greater.

Arxon Havenloft · 5th May 2008, 23:11

I do like this idea but gold would definitely have to be rarer than the other materials gathered.

Geoff · 6th May 2008, 15:44

Yea Lando in UO you mined up gold and could craft weapons and armor out of it. And it is pretty good weapons (now with the runic weapons that ruined UO that is)Befor it was just a color.

PS. Landor didnt GI Joe kill you?

Landor · 6th May 2008, 22:46

No I killed him. But your idea is great. I mean it would have another cause for PvP between guilds.

phuzz · 28th July 2008, 19:44

Ok... gonna dig this up sense I was reading about mineing and don't wana start a new post if this one is still on the first page.

Why just gold?

Depending on what metals are used for currency in MO why not do it with any of them?

In Vanguard the 3 metals in order of increasing worth are copper, gold, platinium(IIRC). However there are copper nodes all over the place in that game and its rediculious that you cant turn the copper you mine directly into the money.

I propose that you not only have to have the raw material but also a cast or mold to make that coin... wich could also lead to other things such as gold coins made with copper castings wich are worth nothing (or maybe worth even more for being rare).

It would also open up possibilities of illegal money makeing rings. Or it could be used by the controlling guild to controll inflation? Or even more dynamicly what if the guild could choose what is used as currency in there relm? You could end up with nations with money that has to be exchanged, wich would also lead to exchange rates...

That would all be player controlled with the simple addition of coin cast/mold makeing, wich btw should obviously be a very hard to obtain skill....

Arxon Havenloft · 29th July 2008, 03:45

The thought that it would provide crafters with a very nice advantage in terms of wealth does frighten me.

Dagger · 29th July 2008, 04:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arxon Havenloft

The thought that it would provide crafters with a very nice advantage in terms of wealth does frighten me.

Plunder them then.

Arxon Havenloft · 29th July 2008, 05:13

Oh, don't get me wrong.. I plan to be a crafter. Just stating the obvious.

phuzz · 30th July 2008, 22:19

Well I think the skill could be top tier... as in.. you make gold and thats all you can do pretty much.

That way it is at least hard to achive... but fake money is a very real thing so why not in game?

But of coarse it would also be illegal and so guilds in charge of the lands would be after such people. I don't think it would be just a couple lines of code to add it.. but I do think the return for adding such things into a game would be fantastic.

Nagoth · 31st July 2008, 07:04

The ability to make money would be a far too powerful thing, unfortunately.
The guild controlling a land is allready quite powerful, but add the ability to make your own coins, and rejecting the others on the market, and you're basically setting that guild up with limitless funds. Anyone in that land who wishes to have REAL coins made would have to go through the guild, and you can be sure the guild would profit more than the miner. Then add exchange rates to that, and you've got an even bigger profit.

Then we have false coins.
Pure gold, or a gold covered copper coin? When you pay 20.000G for a sword, the guy behind the counter doesn't have time to bite them all to check their validity, meaning pretty soon those coins would be found alot more often than the real ones, and the next poor bastard to use the coins at a place where they know more of that they are doing would get in deep trouble for using counterfeit cash.

The basic idea is fun, but it makes controlling the economy that much harder for the game developers.
Looting coins would be all but useless, as everything would have to be exchanged for the current currency, and you'd run out of coins so fast you'd get stuck with hundreds of people not being able to use their money because its the wrong type.

Fun for a week, annoying and frustrating after two.
Sorry for being a bit negative here, but its how I see this matter, unfortunately.

EDIT : As for the idea of not being able to turn gold into anything but weapons and armor, it baffled me as well in UO, but from an economical perspective, it was the only sound thing to do.

lokius · 31st July 2008, 09:07

I'd take a bit diffrent aproach to turning gold into money, there should be no special features for gold it should be same for all ores. If you sell gold you mined, you can get money. The point is just to balance rarity, quantity and demand for certian ores. If gold is rare enough that mining enough amount to get a whole bar of it would take lot of time, and it would be useful in crafting a price of that gold bar would be high. I think it would avoid situation when you can get tens of gold bars wich are worth few silver coins each.

One more thing Im thinking bout is getting diffrent amounts of ore from mining. Kinda like in EVE as far as I remember. Where there are ores you mine in large amounts fast and easy, they are basic needed for most things. The rare ones are harder to find and even if you do find them they come in much lower quantity though amount one needs to produce something of it is also much lower.

Last thing is making fake money seems quite impossible for me now. Making fales coins is rather about getting similar visual effect mixing diffrent metals than in original ones, wich means using much less precious metals and adding more common ones. From what I know a value of coin was determined by metals wich were used to produce them rather than by gold reserves and other things wich we have these days. What Im saying that each fake coin would be diffrent not only in meaning how well it was made but also wich metals it consists of. Then the one who made those fakes a player would somehow want to spend those fakes meaning he would probably have to chose wich coins is he paying with real ones or fakes. Then the one who got the money from that player would have two diffrent kinds and in cases there would be more forgers around he could already have 3-4 kinds of them. Would they stack? Would it be possible telling wich are fake and wich are not? How would one decide wich does he spend? I love the idea, though im afraid we won't see it in any MMO soon.

Praxeas · 31st July 2008, 13:04

In a true player driven economy, metals and materials for crafting would only have the value given to them by the players. So if gold and silver can't be used to make anything useful; copper, tin, iron and even coal could be more worth than precious metals. I agree that gold or silver armor is pretty pointless. But let's say you need a bit of gold or silver to complete a very nice sword (for the pommel, or gold plating down the blade), that is better than a plain steel sword, then gold and silver will have an actual value.

I'm strongly opposed to letting people make their own coins, or counterfeit coins. Although it seems logical and realistic that people could to that, it would break the games economy without the regulating factors, or scale of economy, that exist in real life. Of this I'm pretty certain.

You could probably have an NPC driven "Royal Mint", that would buy precious metals off the players, but not without supply and demand factors included to regulate the price. Let's say the Royal Mint has a purchase order of "300 units" of gold every day, if that is not met the price would go up, if it is met it would go down. Suddenly you have a market for gold traders, buying precious metals off guilds in the country side, moving it to different cities for a better profit, stockpiling to press the prices up etc.

Just my 2 pieces of copper.

lokius · 31st July 2008, 14:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

In a true player driven economy, metals and materials for crafting would only have the value given to them by the players. So if gold and silver can't be used to make anything useful; copper, tin, iron and even coal could be more worth than precious metals. I agree that gold or silver armor is pretty pointless. But let's say you need a bit of gold or silver to complete a very nice sword (for the pommel, or gold plating down the blade), that is better than a plain steel sword, then gold and silver will have an actual value.
[...]

Thats what I meant. Gold could be used to add a finishing touch to weapons, armors, but also to make jewlery or even gold spoons that would look good on the table of someones house. Anyway you shoudn't have to use up a whole gold bar to make a small ring like it used to be in some other games.
As long there will be a proper demand for gold compared to its availability it will be expensive as it should.

5th May 2008, 18:27	#1 (permalink)
Geoff Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 111 Rep Power: 1	Mining and Gold. Ok I always thought about this in UO. When your out mining and you dig up Gold ore. Why cant you make coins out of that gold? wouldnt it make more sense to make gold out of it then a weapon. I mean gold isnt very good for crafting anyways. Its heavy and soft LOL. Make gold bars out of it. Take it to a bank and sell it for coins. Guilds could use "caravans" to transport a larg amount of gold bars to a bank. Of course the whole guild will need to go with all the miners to protect the shipment. Maybe a guild is too stronge to "capture" thier gold mines, But didnt protect their shipment enough. LOL __________________ You can run on for along time, run on for along time, But sooner or later God's goinna cut you down" Jonny Cash.

6th May 2008, 15:44	#4 (permalink)
Geoff Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 111 Rep Power: 1	Yea Lando in UO you mined up gold and could craft weapons and armor out of it. And it is pretty good weapons (now with the runic weapons that ruined UO that is)Befor it was just a color. PS. Landor didnt GI Joe kill you? __________________ You can run on for along time, run on for along time, But sooner or later God's goinna cut you down" Jonny Cash.

28th July 2008, 19:44	#6 (permalink)
phuzz Newbie Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Memphis TN. Age: 23 Posts: 13 Rep Power: 1	Ok... gonna dig this up sense I was reading about mineing and don't wana start a new post if this one is still on the first page. Why just gold? Depending on what metals are used for currency in MO why not do it with any of them? In Vanguard the 3 metals in order of increasing worth are copper, gold, platinium(IIRC). However there are copper nodes all over the place in that game and its rediculious that you cant turn the copper you mine directly into the money. I propose that you not only have to have the raw material but also a cast or mold to make that coin... wich could also lead to other things such as gold coins made with copper castings wich are worth nothing (or maybe worth even more for being rare). It would also open up possibilities of illegal money makeing rings. Or it could be used by the controlling guild to controll inflation? Or even more dynamicly what if the guild could choose what is used as currency in there relm? You could end up with nations with money that has to be exchanged, wich would also lead to exchange rates... That would all be player controlled with the simple addition of coin cast/mold makeing, wich btw should obviously be a very hard to obtain skill.... __________________ 3Ghz duel core intel Nvidia 8800 27Mbps(downlink and uplink combined)

30th July 2008, 22:19	#10 (permalink)
phuzz Newbie Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Memphis TN. Age: 23 Posts: 13 Rep Power: 1	Well I think the skill could be top tier... as in.. you make gold and thats all you can do pretty much. That way it is at least hard to achive... but fake money is a very real thing so why not in game? But of coarse it would also be illegal and so guilds in charge of the lands would be after such people. I don't think it would be just a couple lines of code to add it.. but I do think the return for adding such things into a game would be fantastic. __________________ 3Ghz duel core intel Nvidia 8800 27Mbps(downlink and uplink combined)

31st July 2008, 09:07	#12 (permalink)
lokius Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 49 Rep Power: 1	I'd take a bit diffrent aproach to turning gold into money, there should be no special features for gold it should be same for all ores. If you sell gold you mined, you can get money. The point is just to balance rarity, quantity and demand for certian ores. If gold is rare enough that mining enough amount to get a whole bar of it would take lot of time, and it would be useful in crafting a price of that gold bar would be high. I think it would avoid situation when you can get tens of gold bars wich are worth few silver coins each. One more thing Im thinking bout is getting diffrent amounts of ore from mining. Kinda like in EVE as far as I remember. Where there are ores you mine in large amounts fast and easy, they are basic needed for most things. The rare ones are harder to find and even if you do find them they come in much lower quantity though amount one needs to produce something of it is also much lower. Last thing is making fake money seems quite impossible for me now. Making fales coins is rather about getting similar visual effect mixing diffrent metals than in original ones, wich means using much less precious metals and adding more common ones. From what I know a value of coin was determined by metals wich were used to produce them rather than by gold reserves and other things wich we have these days. What Im saying that each fake coin would be diffrent not only in meaning how well it was made but also wich metals it consists of. Then the one who made those fakes a player would somehow want to spend those fakes meaning he would probably have to chose wich coins is he paying with real ones or fakes. Then the one who got the money from that player would have two diffrent kinds and in cases there would be more forgers around he could already have 3-4 kinds of them. Would they stack? Would it be possible telling wich are fake and wich are not? How would one decide wich does he spend? I love the idea, though im afraid we won't see it in any MMO soon. Last edited by lokius : 31st July 2008 at 13:47.

5th May 2008, 21:27	#2 (permalink)
Landor Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 591 Rep Power: 2	Ahhh why would you make weapons out of gold? Gold is only good to make jewelry. But yea it would be a good idea for what your talking about, making them into bars and then taking them to a bank to sell. Would make the reason to join a guild greater.

6th May 2008, 22:46	#5 (permalink)
Landor Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 591 Rep Power: 2	No I killed him. But your idea is great. I mean it would have another cause for PvP between guilds.

31st July 2008, 07:04	#11 (permalink)
Nagoth Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Norway Posts: 50 Rep Power: 1	The ability to make money would be a far too powerful thing, unfortunately. The guild controlling a land is allready quite powerful, but add the ability to make your own coins, and rejecting the others on the market, and you're basically setting that guild up with limitless funds. Anyone in that land who wishes to have REAL coins made would have to go through the guild, and you can be sure the guild would profit more than the miner. Then add exchange rates to that, and you've got an even bigger profit. Then we have false coins. Pure gold, or a gold covered copper coin? When you pay 20.000G for a sword, the guy behind the counter doesn't have time to bite them all to check their validity, meaning pretty soon those coins would be found alot more often than the real ones, and the next poor bastard to use the coins at a place where they know more of that they are doing would get in deep trouble for using counterfeit cash. The basic idea is fun, but it makes controlling the economy that much harder for the game developers. Looting coins would be all but useless, as everything would have to be exchanged for the current currency, and you'd run out of coins so fast you'd get stuck with hundreds of people not being able to use their money because its the wrong type. Fun for a week, annoying and frustrating after two. Sorry for being a bit negative here, but its how I see this matter, unfortunately. EDIT : As for the idea of not being able to turn gold into anything but weapons and armor, it baffled me as well in UO, but from an economical perspective, it was the only sound thing to do.

31st July 2008, 13:04	#13 (permalink)
Praxeas Newbie Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 8 Rep Power: 0	In a true player driven economy, metals and materials for crafting would only have the value given to them by the players. So if gold and silver can't be used to make anything useful; copper, tin, iron and even coal could be more worth than precious metals. I agree that gold or silver armor is pretty pointless. But let's say you need a bit of gold or silver to complete a very nice sword (for the pommel, or gold plating down the blade), that is better than a plain steel sword, then gold and silver will have an actual value. I'm strongly opposed to letting people make their own coins, or counterfeit coins. Although it seems logical and realistic that people could to that, it would break the games economy without the regulating factors, or scale of economy, that exist in real life. Of this I'm pretty certain. You could probably have an NPC driven "Royal Mint", that would buy precious metals off the players, but not without supply and demand factors included to regulate the price. Let's say the Royal Mint has a purchase order of "300 units" of gold every day, if that is not met the price would go up, if it is met it would go down. Suddenly you have a market for gold traders, buying precious metals off guilds in the country side, moving it to different cities for a better profit, stockpiling to press the prices up etc. Just my 2 pieces of copper.