The structure for a Non-Class MMORPG.

[Phoenixphire]

Ok, I am starting a new thread, as the discussion has moved to a more general topic, versus just Caster structure.

My point is that a character doesn't need a class. Instead, there should be a system of "specilization points", or "talent focuses", or what ever you would like to call it.

This allows the character to be customized, and would encourage a world of truly unique players, each having a different skill set.

To draw a real world analogy, if you choose to become a martial artist, you can be a generalist, looking to learn bits and pieces of different styles and disciplines. However, you would never become the master of any particular style, as your focus is spread out.

If you choose to focus on one style, say Jujitsu, then you would become highly skilled in the fine points of Jujitsu, performing the strikes with more accuracy and power. However, if called upon to use a strike from Taekwondo, you would be less skillful than the general martial artist, and much less skillful than the Taekwondo specialist.

I am simply saying that my idea of a perfect MMO, in regards to classes and abilities, is that you start with a blank slate (no cookie cutter classes), and as you start to focus your abilities into certain areas, you no longer are able to place as much mental focus on other areas.

So, if you start developing your weapon handling abilities, you lose focus on magic. Within weapon handling abilities, if you focus on bladed weapons, then your abilities to handle maces proficiently would be less.

Now, I am not saying that a person who has specialized in daggers can't use a "white magic" healing spell, if they took the time to learn it. But, it should not be nearly as powerful as the spell of the character who became a magician, and has spent much more time and mental resources on learning white magic. There should also be greater risk involved for the dagger user, as he hasn't learned the nuances of the spell.

Now, I also don't think that this should be a permanent choice. Just as in our world, if you decide to change your focuses and training, then you can gain skills in another direction, but your current skill set would start to degrade. So, if you no longer wanted to be a Dagger-wielding assassin, then you could start refocusing on becoming a undead-commanding necromancer. But, since your time and energy is now focused on that, your skills as an assassin would degrade.

Basically, use-it-or-lose-it.

[Welwordion]

I prefer the same style of specialization and talent focus, although I am not that much into making up general categorys like white magic, you train to maybe have one certain spell out of it to use with your melee combat and lose a tons of points.

As far as I know the class skills are currently the ones which have limited points and decide what you specialize in, whereas I am not sure about the exact definition of class skills(as far as i can see they are not limited to one class).
I agree that a readjusting of skills by use or lose would be nice for class skills, that would also avoid the I miss skilled my char and have to start anew one problem.

Also my personal preference and that of many other also lies in blank state chars, however as far as we know this game plans a very loose class system(were some more specialized things are not available for other classes but the rest is) and we have to life with that.

[Earendel]

I agree that readjusting skills is important, but I think that losing skills should be an intentional and gradual process. I'd hate to forget to use a trade skill for a week and find it gone, but I'd also hate to have to not do any crafting for months to get those skill points back.

[Landor]

Earendel why did you bring back a dead topic that has already been said what will happen by the devs.

[Arxon Havenloft]

Phoenixphire, this system is a good one. I think that they intend to implement it very similarly to this one. Though when it comes to magery I would like to delve even deeper into the idea. I would love to see each spell trained separately. If you want to use a fireball, you cast a fireball a million times and hope that you've trained it enough by then. You want to cast a heal, cast heal a million times and hope that you've trained it enough, you want to cast poison, cast poison a million times, etc...

I think that this would be a great idea in adding variety to the playerbase. You choose your strengths wisely and take advantage of the thought that everyone doesn't know exactly what kind of character that you are simply because all mages are the same.

Of course the same could be used in melee combat as well. Training a longsword could be separate from training a katana, long spear, mace, double-axe, etc..

As for Earendel, I would have to respectfully disagree. If your character is logged in, you should be proficient in all that you do and less proficient in all that you don't do. As far as not using your swordsmanship skill in a week because you went on vacation somewhere, well I agree that if your character is not logged in then it should not be affected.

Also, I am highly against any kind of mix of craftsman and combatant "all in one" character. You are either a craftsman, or you're not. If you do pick up a few of the requisites for combat it shouldn't be nearly enough to be able to become fully sufficient in both areas.

[Veith]

I would be glad if chardevelopment would be not linear. But also not in any point possible to lock skills like later in UO. Was very comfort, a great help but playing games only because you get programmed help is like a father (me) gives constantely help to his children and they are doing nothing for their success. For children first ok. But so mature gameplay means for me not watching flying heads in all directions on the screen more the game is not a parental advisor for me in which way i can better be successfull. But thats to often MMORPGameplay.

Success, also development success must be depending on gaming. You get better in a skill if you using it but also bader if not using. Sure not after few hours but after perhaps a week not used. Must also not be a harsh punishment but noticeable and constantely. No training no skill.
But like swimming you never unlearn something totally.
And sure a maximum limit on abilities. If limited depending on maximum points or on the fact you can master only par example 4 things in your life and be expert in 4 others and being able to do many things in numerous ways.
But especially mastering should be limited in quantum. Be able to do things is really nearly endless.
But the important skills are those you can master.

Anyway i read there will be realtimecombat and much playerskill needed, so the combat will surely depend on players abilities and not so much on chars skills.
For crafting its surely different, there charskills important; i dont think devs create a system you need to press a key in exact right pressure to get a better result for your hammered steel or like pga golf you must drive (perhaps like the swords) your hammer in the right way to get good results.
Hm if i think closer i would not dislike such a system.
Then noone could say im a mastersmith only because he let a char hammering 475 hours standing at an anvil, no because he gets the right drive with the mouse

Anyway thats more for combat, also i think its the fairest way for a MMOG. The player is the main reason for any success, and not only any programmed statistics.

[Earendel]

Originally Posted by Landor

Earendel why did you bring back a dead topic that has already been said what will happen by the devs.

Well... I'm new to the forum, I don't know what the devs said on this matter, and I had a concern that that an ability might disappear just as you were about to use it again after a 1-week break. Although, now I think about it, it would be quite funny if you suddenly realised that you forgot how to do said ability at an awkward moment.