Balance during combat

[Rhygar]

There is another thread here about how long combat should last. People mentioned that they would like kills to happen with one or two blows AND that hits cause your character to become slower/limp or whatever. I like that idea. A good addition to this would be a balance system.

And by balance I mean as in "not falling over".

For example, if you swing and miss your character will be slightly off balance (then again a good fighter would not lose balance that easily). There could be a balance indicator which either wobbles or appears stable. When it's stable your character is balanced and is able to deliver the most damage and react at maximum speed. If he's off balance then his blows are weaker and his blocks/parries are slower. If your opponent times a block or parry well you lose balance. If his timing is off he loses balance. If you strike your opponent from the side he will lose balance - but from behind he'll just get hurt.

You might have an agility attribute that determines how quickly you regain balance how fast you can follow up one blow with another etc.

Thus if you jump up and down like an idiot in a fight you will lose balance and be easier to hit.

The goal in a fight would therefore (in part) be to unbalance your opponent enough so as to put steel to flesh.

2 to 3 good hits to send your opponent off balance (if he's defensive timing is off) and then a blow that actually connects to cause the damamge. He'll then limp/not have use of an arm or something.

I have heard that some game has tried to do this before. Not sure whether it worked or not.

Discuss...

[Welwordion]

Well I already stated it elsewhere, I like any form of having to prepare your attack fighting for an advantage instead of only getting as many blows in as possible.
Balance is something I also have considered before in other game forums, the problem is to choose the right penality for beeing offbalance and the right reasons to become unbalanced.
Slowing down, well I would rather use that for stamina and dealing less damage is good but the defensive loss of offbalance is more important.
How about arm movements becoming imprecise when losing balance and accidental movement/slips happening that create openings?

[Traceur]

balance is one of the most important thing in combat, and i would love for any game to actually incorporate it, both of your character and your weapon.

[Jusik]

This is a good idea but i think it would be hard to program. How do you teach the unreal engine to recognize a change in balance. This would also give a large advantage to dagger players who have short weapons and then can dodge once and tear you to pieces.

[Rhygar]

Originally Posted by Jusik

This is a good idea but i think it would be hard to program. How do you teach the unreal engine to recognize a change in balance. This would also give a large advantage to dagger players who have short weapons and then can dodge once and tear you to pieces.

Yes, technological restrictions are a bitch. However, improvements happen so rapidly that it's quite conceivable to have an engine capable of this for the next generation (i.e. five years from now).

Obviously different weapons would have to be handled differently.

A characters strength would also then add to the amount of imbalance you give your opponent. For example, if a mage happens to be holding a shield (don't know why he would be doing this, but just for arguments sake ) and a great hulking barbarian smashes his shield with an axe you would expect the mage to fall over, whereas a more robust character would be able to remain on his feet.

[Traceur]

euphoria's animation engine calculates balance

ok, i feel like an advertiser... i need to learn about other procedural animation engines...

[Rhygar]

Originally Posted by Traceur

euphoria's animation engine calculates balance

ok, i feel like an advertiser... i need to learn about other procedural animation engines...

I think I should state that I all quite clueless regarding the technical side of these things... so thanks for telling me that!

[Pavlos]

I think killing a person with 2-3 hits eliminates the skill factor. I personally think that sucks because a ranged character can destroy anyone he ambushes instantly, same goes with stealth type characters. Takes away the fun.

A longer battle will let the defender retaliate and usage of skills and tactics comes into play.

The hit and run tactic sounds more like the skilless kiddy style. I stealth and attack you while you are fighting 2 bears, or whatever, before you even can react. This only resaults in an aggravated community where most can't enjoy a fight where all aspects of the characters come into play.

[Traceur]

just because you can kill someone with 2-3 hits doesn't mean you will. remember, he is actively blocking & dodging you too.

[Rhygar]

Originally Posted by Pavlos

I think killing a person with 2-3 hits eliminates the skill factor. I personally think that sucks because a ranged character can destroy anyone he ambushes instantly, same goes with stealth type characters. Takes away the fun.

A longer battle will let the defender retaliate and usage of skills and tactics comes into play.

The hit and run tactic sounds more like the skilless kiddy style. I stealth and attack you while you are fighting 2 bears, or whatever, before you even can react. This only resaults in an aggravated community where most can't enjoy a fight where all aspects of the characters come into play.

I'm not proposing that a fight will end in 2 - 3 hits. That's only how quickly you could actual do damage to the other character. After that the hurt player can still fight back if he gets his timing in order.

The idea is proposed to assist a system where a character's movement will be impaired by wounds received during a fight, and the blows that hit the body cause serious damage. So if a good player is fighting a not so good player, it takes him, say 3 blows for every blow that does damage. Let suppose you can sustain 3 body hits (depends how much damage was done per blow, as the attacking player could be off balance himself at the time) before dying = 3 x 4 = 12 blows.

You can obviously arrange it so that an average 1-on-1 lasts however long or short you want it to - depending what would be more fun.

As to archery/stealth - you can't say an idea can't work because other aspects might have to be tweaked! It goes without saying that when you change one thing it will affect others.

[Rhygar]

O, and there will be no hitting-and-running. To fight you have to take a combat stance. The moment you run you lose the balance required to use you weapon effectively or to defend yourself.

You might be able to get away, but you definitely will not be able to just skip in-and-out of range.

[OMGPIE]

I like the idea because it will keep it from becoming WoW where rouges are jumping constantly and just looking like absolute retards while in a fight. I don't think you should ever be standing still in a fight but I think that there should be a skill that helps you keep balance in a fight if possible to implement. Especially when you're wearing heavy metal armor it gets harder to be as mobile. so armor should have an affect I think as well.

[Danach]

Would be a cool concept to incorporate.