hetrosexuals & homosexuals, your summoned for questioning.

Traceur · 2nd July 2009, 13:52

anyone of the slightest eccentricity is going to at some point in there lives question "what's wrong with everyone?", why is it that most people minds work differently... "what the hell goes on in them?"... it also seems that for some odd reason, those questions are never actually brought up and asked upfront. this topic seems so alien to me, i figured i'll just ask:

mono-sexuals: straights, gays & lesbians, all of you who choose lovers based on the potential lovers gender.

why? what causes it? what the hell goes in your mind (& pelvis) that says "ok i can't like that person in that way because of the person's gender"? how does that work? how did it happen? did you get into a long term relationship with one gender and forgot what to do in bed with the other? did you try it out and decide one is more fun then the other you'll only have that?

people like me tend to almost hide behind the high horse, "being more open" and whatnot, but in reality i don't think i or any other non-mono-sexual really understands the whole mono-sexual deal. so here's my blunt naivity: how does mono-sexual "gender screening" work?

Sando · 2nd July 2009, 13:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traceur

why? what causes it?

Hormones.

/thread

Kalimni · 2nd July 2009, 13:59

I'll start off with: I am straight.

I don't know how to answer your question. I don't think there was ever a conscious decision to not like men in a sexual manner. even when I was just in 1'st or 2'nd grade, I remember being attracted to boobs.

fonic · 2nd July 2009, 14:03

It's our genes that determine it. We evolved by reproducing and our DNA's only objective is to get spread around as much as possible. That's why anything other than heterosexuality is unnatural.

Rilman · 2nd July 2009, 14:04

I like Boobs.

AmmokK · 2nd July 2009, 14:08

I guess it´s some kind of (genetical?) defective function. Sure, if you had bad experiences with being straight, it might accelerate the outcoming but I´m pretty sure you don´t just turn gay because of that.

Sando · 2nd July 2009, 14:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by fonic

It's our genes that determine it. We evolved by reproducing and our DNA's only objective is to get spread around as much as possible. That's why anything other than heterosexuality is unnatural.

While I agree with the rest, saying that something that's occurring in nature is unnatural is a bit strange.

I'm straight by the way.

fonic · 2nd July 2009, 14:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sando

While I agree with the rest, saying that something that's occurring in nature is unnatural is a bit strange.

I'm straight by the way.

If you put it like that, everything occurrs in nature even buildings etc since its comparable to say, an animal building a nest or whatever. I used that word because it's counter-productive to what our DNA is trying to acheive. It technically occurrs in nature but homosexuality is useless in the DNA/evolution sense of things.

vaniljparvelnfrånglutt · 2nd July 2009, 15:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by fonic

If you put it like that, everything occurrs in nature even buildings etc since its comparable to say, an animal building a nest or whatever. I used that word because it's counter-productive to what our DNA is trying to acheive. It technically occurrs in nature but homosexuality is useless in the DNA/evolution sense of things.

Nature (and love) isnt as simple as you try to make it. If all that matters was to reproduce ourselves, then why do we find some persons unattractive. Wouldn't it be much easier if we just jumped everyone like rabbits. That would really be 'productive' wouldn't it?

AmmokK · 2nd July 2009, 15:03

DNA normally wants to reproduce the "good" genes, not the "bad" ones.

Straight_Jacket_Panda · 2nd July 2009, 15:27

I like both genders :\ As long as they aren't a mopad or ugly as hell I'llk be with them if i enjoy being around them :P

Lumathe · 2nd July 2009, 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by vaniljparvelnfrånglutt

Nature (and love) isnt as simple as you try to make it. If all that matters was to reproduce ourselves, then why do we find some persons unattractive. Wouldn't it be much easier if we just jumped everyone like rabbits. That would really be 'productive' wouldn't it?

He has a valid point.
This is a topic I'm passionate about, so Wall of Text WARNING:

As a zoologist, studying animals habits/interactions/environments etc, we learn that several species actually exhibit both hetero- and homo- sexual behaviour. This would indicate that it isn't perhaps as un-natural as some people seem to believe. Yes, it may be something in our genes that decides whether we fancy the other gender or our own, but seeing as there are many people on both sides of this equation, evidence would point towards it just being a natural, random happening. Sure, homo-sexual couples (and pairs, in the animal kingdom), don't reproduce, but that doesn't mean they aren't happy, or that they aren't natural.
As Vanili said, it's a matter of attraction. Attraction, according to some theories, is already imprinted into our genes (ie genes determine what traits in a person we will find attractive), and in this way, there's probably a gene-segment for which gender you find attractive. Production of the next generation isn't everything, unless you think we should all live our lives simply aiming to reproduce, which would screw over civilization a little. Many famous historical people (and people today) are in fact homosexual. Perhaps if they werent, they never would have done the things they did, and then where would we be?

Since I havnt mentioned it yet, yes, I myself am in fact 100% straight, but I'm comfortable in myself, and comfortable around some of my homo- and bi- sexual friends, because even if it isnt genetics, it's a choice they've made, and everyone has a natural right to make their own choices- about what to do with their lives, where to go, and who to love.

Homosexuality is just another option, as natural to some people as heterosexuality is to others.

The end.

Ziegler · 2nd July 2009, 15:30

So what you are saying Traceur is that you a trisexual?

You'll tri anything sexual....

For me...having had anal with a female, and imagining it cant be much different with a guy, and not reallly enjoying it...I failed to see the advantage of coupling with a male...cause I am a one way street there. And man bewbz...are never as fun as women's.

Dawngreeter · 2nd July 2009, 15:35

The real question here? Why would a heterosexual male not want to have sex with a man who had plastic surgery and now looks exactly like a woman. Or the other way around, a homosexual male with a woman who now looks exactly like a man. It's something we'll grow out of in a couple of decades, when we get used to the fact we can look any way we want and when procreation stops being so rampant.

Lumathe · 2nd July 2009, 15:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziegler

So what you are saying Traceur is that you a trisexual?

You'll tri anything sexual....

For me...having had anal with a female, and imagining it cant be much different with a guy, and not reallly enjoying it...I failed to see the advantage of coupling with a male...cause I am a one way street there. And man bewbz...are never as fun as women's.

Agree about the man-bewbz thing. Also, I think the proper term is "Pan-sexual".
Pansexual(taken from the Urban Dictionary, backed up by dictionary.com's definition):
2. Noun: A person who is sexually interested in other people regardless of gender including males, females, transexuals, tansvestites, gender benders, hermaphrodites, intersexuals, androgenous people, and those with sex-chromosome anomaly such as klinefelter syndrome or turner syndrome.

Trubaduren · 2nd July 2009, 15:41

Since being homosexulla is some genetic thing, it's not something you chose. Unless your mentally/Psyhologicly confused, which also has been prove. That's why some say you fall in love with the person, not the sex. Although thats usually what bisexual people say.

Something that would be pretty weird though, what if you could reverse the genetic "defect" (Not that its a defect, but you know what i mean) so to make a gay person straight? I'm starting to sound like Mengle, but ^^

Lumathe · 2nd July 2009, 15:47

That's the thing. I don't think science is still entirely sure what it is. Theories say that it's genetic, but they're still just theories, not proven yet (as far as I know). Others say it's a choice, which I can frankly understand.
Also, you're walking down the path of the reich a bit there, Trub :P

Dawngreeter · 2nd July 2009, 15:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trubaduren

Since being homosexulla is some genetic thing, it's not something you chose. Unless your mentally/Psyhologicly confused

Why is someone "being confused" a bad thing? If that's what he does, let him do what he does. This line of thought stems from the presumption that heterosexuals are superior so anyone who doesn't have to be different, as laid out by his genetic makeup, but chooses to be is committing some sort of sin or treason. It's despicable.

Lumathe · 2nd July 2009, 15:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawngreeter

Why is someone "being confused" a bad thing? If that's what he does, let him do what he does. This line of thought stems from the presumption that heterosexuals are superior so anyone who doesn't have to be different, as laid out by his genetic makeup, but chooses to be is committing some sort of sin or treason. It's despicable.

/agree
A lot of people seem to be very close-minded on the subject of sexuality. At least partly at fault is religion (both past and present) enforcing belief that the hetero-sexual way of life is somehow "Right", and that anything else is a Sin of some sort.
Religion has a lot to answer for really. Let people be as they choose to be, it's their life, they should spend it with someone they love, not be railroaded into being with someone they dont.

setbean · 2nd July 2009, 15:56

I love people, not genders. That simple for me

Ziegler · 2nd July 2009, 15:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lumathe

Agree about the man-bewbz thing. Also, I think the proper term is "Pan-sexual".
Pansexual(taken from the Urban Dictionary, backed up by dictionary.com's definition):
2. Noun: A person who is sexually interested in other people regardless of gender including males, females, transexuals, tansvestites, gender benders, hermaphrodites, intersexuals, androgenous people, and those with sex-chromosome anomaly such as klinefelter syndrome or turner syndrome.

considering I was calling them trisexuals since I was in puberty and that's when only al gore was jerking off to pron on the internet...my term has longer standing.

Traceur · 2nd July 2009, 16:06

funny how nobody addressed the question.
people, this isn't about why gays are gay, its equally about why the straight ones of you are straight. any of you willing to give a shot at explaining that odd and unnecessary decision?

Kitty · 2nd July 2009, 16:08

I Like Turtles!

Ziegler · 2nd July 2009, 16:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traceur

funny how nobody addressed the question.
people, this isn't about why gays are gay, its equally about why the straight ones of you are straight. any of you willing to give a shot at explaining that odd and unnecessary decision?

I think I answered your question.
I dont care to have a penis shoved in my ass, and I dont care to shove my penis in another's ass. Therefore, there is nothing that a man can offer me sexually, that I cant get better from a woman IMHO.

I'm a shaft B fits in Slot A kinda guy...not one of those individuals that are proficient at putting "square pegs" in "round holes"

Traceur · 2nd July 2009, 16:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Straight_Jacket_Panda

I like both genders :\ As long as they aren't a mopad or ugly as hell I'llk be with them if i enjoy being around them :P

Quote:

Originally Posted by setbean

I love people, not genders. That simple for me

which means as far as the OP mystery i am trying to decipher - the riddle of monosexuality - you are as much in the dark as i am

Kitty · 2nd July 2009, 16:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziegler

I'm a shaft B fits in Slot A kinda guy...

I usually have to call a naughty chat line for that kind of talk

AmmokK · 2nd July 2009, 16:19

Quote:

As a zoologist, studying animals habits/interactions/environments etc, we learn that several species actually exhibit both hetero- and homo- sexual behaviour.

Although this fact is absolutely true, it doesn´t mean it is "right".
Some female spiders kill their man, after reproducing themselves. Try this after having sex...
Some animals leave their children behind (under certain conditions) although they aren´t old enough to be left behind. Again: try this as a human...
Having cancer happens. It´s a natural thing. Still I bet you will try to cure it...

So as you can see, not everything that CAN occur, is necessarily something "good" or can be adapted to the human world, just "as is".

Dawngreeter · 2nd July 2009, 16:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmmokK

Having cancer happens. It´s a natural thing. Still I bet you will try to cure it...

I don't think that's the direction this thread was supposed to go in. But, to answer the raised question, sure. You can consider non-heterosexuality to be akin to cancer. Then you would be in the group of backwards fascist-wannabe yokels who should be covered with tar and feather and ran the hell out of town.

But really, let's keep the discussion serious.

Traceur · 2nd July 2009, 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawngreeter

I don't think that's the direction this thread was supposed to go in.

it's definitely not.

as far as i'm concerned gays and straights are the same - not because of jinglebelly 'we're all equal' PCiness but because they are both nuts for doing that utterly crazy thing of making an unnecessary choice to:
1) limiting there scope of experiences & potential relationships.
2) restrict there love lives.
3) creating a 50% chance to miss there love of there life.
4) lowering there standards by choosing from a smaller potential pool.

so again...

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmmokK

Although this fact is absolutely true, it doesn´t mean it is "right".

what on earth makes your version of monosexuality right?

AmmokK · 2nd July 2009, 16:42

I AM serious -.-
Being gay should be officially concidered an illness and should be treated like that. These people need treatment, not tolerance, just like aids needs.

Quote:

what on earth makes your version of monosexuality right?

because it´s the aim to reproduce yourselves.

Being BI is okay, since those seem to at least "know" what´s right, and just act gay because of their "fun".

Dawngreeter · 2nd July 2009, 16:50

Yeah. You know, you should be beaten. Not by me, I dislike that kind of stuff, but the global society would definitely benefit if someone were to do it.

ChaoticAngel · 2nd July 2009, 16:52

As a woman I can say that I have had some confusion in my life. Before I met my now husband...I actually had a date with another woman. It was just dinner and a movie. After the date and talking with her she wasn't even sure where she stood in the whole sexuality department either. She was seeing this guy and wanted to see if that would work out or not. So, it didn't upset or bother me in the least so then I met my now husband and seven years later...here we are...happy and married. But I'm still attracted to women. Talked with a few here and there but nothing every worked out, either they were married or had kids already or didn't like that I was married...blah blah. So I guess you could say I'm still attracted to women but I'm absolutely and totally head over heels in love with my husband. And I want children so I don't know about still trying to proceed with finding a woman conquest...I'd rather give my attention over to my family.

On a side note...the girl I was talking about in the beginning is now a lesbian, "married" to her girl, and her girl just had a baby boy. So obviously the guy didn't work out.

ThePatriotGame · 2nd July 2009, 16:54

I am straight because I am attracted to women.

I am attracted to women because they have a reproductive part of their body that goes well with mine.

I am attracted to women because I am a man, and a man can only reproduce with a woman.

A man that commits homosexual acts is acting un-naturally, because two men or two women can not reproduce.

AmmokK · 2nd July 2009, 16:55

I think you misunterstand my posting, Dawngreeter.

I didn´t write "I hate homosexuals", although I guess that´s what you seem to deduce.

I´m just saying they should be helped by medication or whatever.
Let´s just pretend "design-baby" where already fully possible, okay?
I really doubt, someone whould say "Oh, I´d like to make my baby gay, that would be so cool!"...

Dawngreeter · 2nd July 2009, 16:58

I'd like my baby gay. If I were to want a child, which I do not for other reasons.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePatriotGame

I am attracted to women because they have a reproductive part of their body that goes well with mine.

No you aren't. Although I am sure you will never understand why what you said here is a lie.

ChaoticAngel · 2nd July 2009, 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePatriotGame

I am straight because I am attracted to women.

I am attracted to women because they have a reproductive part of their body that goes well with mine.

I am attracted to women because I am a man, and a man can only reproduce with a woman.

A man that commits homosexual acts is acting un-naturally, because two men or two women can not reproduce.

2 men and 2 woman can reproduce...it's called a surrogate mother or artificially insemination.

Or you can do what Melissa Etheridge did....use David Crosby's sperm..LOL

AmmokK · 2nd July 2009, 17:05

Quote:

I'd like my baby gay.

Now I´d really like to know why?
Wanna try to ruin humanity? That´s way easier... just some A-bombs needed...

Dawngreeter · 2nd July 2009, 17:05

Annoying you and backwater yokels like you is high on the list of reasons.

AmmokK · 2nd July 2009, 17:09

Oh, nice arguements... Explain that to your kid when it´s asking questions like "Dad, why am I a gay? I wanna be normal like all the other ones!" - "Sorry son, I had to annoy some people that didn´t like gays. Hope you can understand"

Great way...
Oh geez, I almost forgot: How to reproduce homosexuals, if everyone was? Damn...

Nice discussing with you, love your arguements, they are so... profound -.-

Rilman · 2nd July 2009, 17:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kitty

I Like Turtles!

I think someone got my joke perhaps.

2nd July 2009, 13:52	#1 (permalink)
Traceur Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Israel Age: 25 Rep Power: 35	hetrosexuals & homosexuals, your summoned for questioning. anyone of the slightest eccentricity is going to at some point in there lives question "what's wrong with everyone?", why is it that most people minds work differently... "what the hell goes on in them?"... it also seems that for some odd reason, those questions are never actually brought up and asked upfront. this topic seems so alien to me, i figured i'll just ask: mono-sexuals: straights, gays & lesbians, all of you who choose lovers based on the potential lovers gender. why? what causes it? what the hell goes in your mind (& pelvis) that says "ok i can't like that person in that way because of the person's gender"? how does that work? how did it happen? did you get into a long term relationship with one gender and forgot what to do in bed with the other? did you try it out and decide one is more fun then the other you'll only have that? people like me tend to almost hide behind the high horse, "being more open" and whatnot, but in reality i don't think i or any other non-mono-sexual really understands the whole mono-sexual deal. so here's my blunt naivity: how does mono-sexual "gender screening" work? __________________ - because neologism needs a new word take my love, take my land, take me where i can not stand i don't care, i'm still free, you can't take the sky from me what am I doing? where am I? Last edited by Traceur : 2nd July 2009 at 13:57.

2nd July 2009, 13:59	#3 (permalink)
Kalimni Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Oregon, USA Age: 26 Rep Power: 2	I'll start off with: I am straight. I don't know how to answer your question. I don't think there was ever a conscious decision to not like men in a sexual manner. even when I was just in 1'st or 2'nd grade, I remember being attracted to boobs. __________________ If anything I say can be construed to mean more than one thing, then I mean the one that is most hurtful and belittling to you On the internet... all the women are men... all the men are fat... and all the children are F.B.I. agents.--xwhitemousex

2nd July 2009, 15:27	#11 (permalink)
Straight_Jacket_Panda Newbie Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Virginia Rep Power: 0	I like both genders :\ As long as they aren't a mopad or ugly as hell I'llk be with them if i enjoy being around them :P __________________ At the midpoint on the journey of life, I found myself in a dark forest, for the clear path was lost

2nd July 2009, 15:30	#13 (permalink)
Ziegler Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: In the dusts of hell Lurked the blackest of hates Rep Power: 6	So what you are saying Traceur is that you a trisexual? You'll tri anything sexual.... For me...having had anal with a female, and imagining it cant be much different with a guy, and not reallly enjoying it...I failed to see the advantage of coupling with a male...cause I am a one way street there. And man bewbz...are never as fun as women's. __________________ If I havent offended you today, dont worry, there's always tomorrow! List of things to do before you launch MO for the first time

2nd July 2009, 15:35	#14 (permalink)
Dawngreeter Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Villa Straylight Age: 28 Rep Power: 4	The real question here? Why would a heterosexual male not want to have sex with a man who had plastic surgery and now looks exactly like a woman. Or the other way around, a homosexual male with a woman who now looks exactly like a man. It's something we'll grow out of in a couple of decades, when we get used to the fact we can look any way we want and when procreation stops being so rampant. __________________ Of course there is no us and them but them, they do not think the same. Perspectuitively observationistic arguationist.

2nd July 2009, 14:03	#4 (permalink)
fonic Newbie Join Date: May 2009 Rep Power: 0	It's our genes that determine it. We evolved by reproducing and our DNA's only objective is to get spread around as much as possible. That's why anything other than heterosexuality is unnatural.

2nd July 2009, 14:04	#5 (permalink)
Rilman Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Rep Power: 8	I like Boobs.

2nd July 2009, 14:08	#6 (permalink)
AmmokK Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Germany Age: 29 Rep Power: 0	I guess it´s some kind of (genetical?) defective function. Sure, if you had bad experiences with being straight, it might accelerate the outcoming but I´m pretty sure you don´t just turn gay because of that.

2nd July 2009, 15:03	#10 (permalink)
AmmokK Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Germany Age: 29 Rep Power: 0	DNA normally wants to reproduce the "good" genes, not the "bad" ones.

2nd July 2009, 15:41	#16 (permalink)
Trubaduren Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Sweden Rep Power: 0	Since being homosexulla is some genetic thing, it's not something you chose. Unless your mentally/Psyhologicly confused, which also has been prove. That's why some say you fall in love with the person, not the sex. Although thats usually what bisexual people say. Something that would be pretty weird though, what if you could reverse the genetic "defect" (Not that its a defect, but you know what i mean) so to make a gay person straight? I'm starting to sound like Mengle, but ^^ __________________

2nd July 2009, 15:56	#20 (permalink)
setbean Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: BCN (Spain) Age: 20 Rep Power: 1	I love people, not genders. That simple for me __________________ Let's start a BEAN revolution

2nd July 2009, 16:06	#22 (permalink)
Traceur Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Israel Age: 25 Rep Power: 35	funny how nobody addressed the question. people, this isn't about why gays are gay, its equally about why the straight ones of you are straight. any of you willing to give a shot at explaining that odd and unnecessary decision? __________________ - because neologism needs a new word take my love, take my land, take me where i can not stand i don't care, i'm still free, you can't take the sky from me what am I doing? where am I?

2nd July 2009, 16:08	#23 (permalink)
Kitty Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Age: 21 Rep Power: 3	I Like Turtles!

2nd July 2009, 16:50	#31 (permalink)
Dawngreeter Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Villa Straylight Age: 28 Rep Power: 4	Yeah. You know, you should be beaten. Not by me, I dislike that kind of stuff, but the global society would definitely benefit if someone were to do it. __________________ Of course there is no us and them but them, they do not think the same. Perspectuitively observationistic arguationist.

2nd July 2009, 16:52	#32 (permalink)
ChaoticAngel Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: USA/Norway Age: 27 Rep Power: 1	As a woman I can say that I have had some confusion in my life. Before I met my now husband...I actually had a date with another woman. It was just dinner and a movie. After the date and talking with her she wasn't even sure where she stood in the whole sexuality department either. She was seeing this guy and wanted to see if that would work out or not. So, it didn't upset or bother me in the least so then I met my now husband and seven years later...here we are...happy and married. But I'm still attracted to women. Talked with a few here and there but nothing every worked out, either they were married or had kids already or didn't like that I was married...blah blah. So I guess you could say I'm still attracted to women but I'm absolutely and totally head over heels in love with my husband. And I want children so I don't know about still trying to proceed with finding a woman conquest...I'd rather give my attention over to my family. On a side note...the girl I was talking about in the beginning is now a lesbian, "married" to her girl, and her girl just had a baby boy. So obviously the guy didn't work out. __________________ *~ChaoticAngel~*

2nd July 2009, 16:54	#33 (permalink)
ThePatriotGame Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Éire Rep Power: 3	I am straight because I am attracted to women. I am attracted to women because they have a reproductive part of their body that goes well with mine. I am attracted to women because I am a man, and a man can only reproduce with a woman. A man that commits homosexual acts is acting un-naturally, because two men or two women can not reproduce.

2nd July 2009, 16:55	#34 (permalink)
AmmokK Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Germany Age: 29 Rep Power: 0	I think you misunterstand my posting, Dawngreeter. I didn´t write "I hate homosexuals", although I guess that´s what you seem to deduce. I´m just saying they should be helped by medication or whatever. Let´s just pretend "design-baby" where already fully possible, okay? I really doubt, someone whould say "Oh, I´d like to make my baby gay, that would be so cool!"...

2nd July 2009, 17:05	#38 (permalink)
Dawngreeter Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Villa Straylight Age: 28 Rep Power: 4	Annoying you and backwater yokels like you is high on the list of reasons. __________________ Of course there is no us and them but them, they do not think the same. Perspectuitively observationistic arguationist.

2nd July 2009, 17:09	#39 (permalink)
AmmokK Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Germany Age: 29 Rep Power: 0	Oh, nice arguements... Explain that to your kid when it´s asking questions like "Dad, why am I a gay? I wanna be normal like all the other ones!" - "Sorry son, I had to annoy some people that didn´t like gays. Hope you can understand" Great way... Oh geez, I almost forgot: How to reproduce homosexuals, if everyone was? Damn... Nice discussing with you, love your arguements, they are so... profound -.-