AoC hits the market big

[admiralnlson]

Originally Posted by Shawk

That is a skill yes, but Guild Wars does depend on items just like any other PvP MMO wannabe out right now.

And even if Items in Guild Wars didnt matter, which they do, it would have no more, "skill," associated with it than WoW's Arena Tournament servers which give you a set Armour which is no better than anyone elses, everyone is than even in a sence.

Seriously...

Yes, WoW's arena (reward) items are all equivalent. But you seem to forget the main argument against item-based games like WoW is that not everybody has those leet items!

In Guild Wars, you create your items for free depending on what you want to do at a particular moment (exple: I'll use an elemental damage haft on a hammer to do a little more damage to warriors). All items are equivalent in power. They're just different in purpose.

Many people don't even know what to equip and just go with the same stats every time (ie. for their weapon: +15%^50 20/20 pene +30hp).
Choosing your equipment stats to match your skill bar and your role in the team is part of the skill.


Yes, Guild Wars has consensual PvP. And no, it's not an MMO. That makes GW a lot less interesting than a game with Open World PvP in a seamless world, for sure.
But saying the skill involved is the same as in WoW or AoC... especially AoC, is just lol. Again:

Originally Posted by admiralnlson

Try to get top50 in the guild ladder and then we're talking...

You don't need to try to bash GW with ignorant comments to make your point, you know. Just say that you don't like instanced PvP and that you couldn't play a game with instanced PvP even if it was the best instanced competitive experience ever, and be done with it.

[Son of a gun]

I have to defend Guild Wars on the question of items. It most definately is not an item-centric game.

Item centric is when there are ever increasingly better items that you have to constantly grind for in order to keep up. And whoever grinds the most gets the greatest power advantage.

With guild wars there is a cap on the quality of items and anyone can get the top end stuff easily.

I still didn't like the PvP in Guild Wars but it wasn't item centric.

I guess arena PvP just doesn't cut it for me. Where's the sense of danger? The suspense? The suprise? The ambush and the escape? The cat and mouse skulking around? The survival agaisnt overwhelming odds or being buried under a wave of enemies before you even know what's happening?

Arena PvP is like a group of guys getting together for a friendly game of touch football. It's ok but it lacks the intensity of open world PvP.

[LoBo]

I saw this on a mmo website forum in the AoC section and it made smile. Its a GM making threats to a player on a PvP server for killing another player. Aside from AoC being a massive pile of dog crap PvE mmo, just goes to show how the piles of crap at Funcom run the game. They want to behave like AoC is a hardcore, badass, no other like it PvP game.

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/9085/gmszq7.jpg

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/2425/gms1xv7.jpg

[Sebastian Persson]

Originally Posted by LoBo

I saw this on a mmo website forum in the AoC section and it made smile. Its a GM making threats to a player on a PvP server for killing another player. Aside from AoC being a massive pile of dog crap PvE mmo, just goes to show how the piles of crap at Funcom run the game. They want to behave like AoC is a hardcore, badass, no other like it PvP game.

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/9085/gmszq7.jpg

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/2425/gms1xv7.jpg

Haha, nice GM-work.."please don't hit the dude OK?"

[Seggallion]

Originally Posted by LoBo

I saw this on a mmo website forum in the AoC section and it made smile. Its a GM making threats to a player on a PvP server for killing another player. Aside from AoC being a massive pile of dog crap PvE mmo, just goes to show how the piles of crap at Funcom run the game. They want to behave like AoC is a hardcore, badass, no other like it PvP game.

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/9085/gmszq7.jpg

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/2425/gms1xv7.jpg

lol That whiner must have a hard time

[yXXe]

Originally Posted by Shawk

That is a skill yes, but Guild Wars does depend on items just like any other PvP MMO wannabe out right now.

And even if Items in Guild Wars didnt matter, which they do, it would have no more, "skill," associated with it than WoW's Arena Tournament servers which give you a set Armour which is no better than anyone elses, everyone is than even in a sence.

But the mere fact that you have a set amount of people against a set amount of people in every battle takes out 50% of skill.. You already know how many you face and half the time you already know who and what class they are.

The real skill is a open battlefield, not knowing the odds and not knowing who you could meet around a corner. Sure, Guild Wars and WoW do the, "balance," thing all good and great, but that doesnt mean jack. And seeing how AoC is going that EXACT same way, (instances, set amount of player battles,) the pvp will be absolutely no different, and the skill involved in WoW or Guild Wars pvp is no differnt than the skill involved in AoC pvp. Warhammer is doing the exact same thing aswell.

So, in other words.. you get new graphics and a new way to balance your character.. that's it, the sad thing, alot of you enjoy wasteing half your life doing that apparently.

Mortal (maby,) Darkfall, Eve, Daoc, Asherons Call, SB, UO and WWIIOnline are the only Popular PvP games that are different from other PvP games.. the rest are the exact same, they just look and act alittle different.

Guild Wars is not an gear-based game, when you get everything for free! Everyone has top-of-the-line gear in the PvP, ergo, they are not destined to be any better or worse then you. It is more how you tailor it to your advantage, I wouldn't exactly wear a plate mail if I wore a bow and needed to get around quickly, that's an example. If I'm going Apply Poison on my Ranger, I'd give him a vampire bow, see?
It's almost, in a senseless way, the same as PvP in EvE, where you tailor your rig to a certain aspect/method/tactic/whatever.
Guild Wars IS a great game, PvP-wise.

[Heliopios]

Originally Posted by LoBo

I saw this on a mmo website forum in the AoC section and it made smile. Its a GM making threats to a player on a PvP server for killing another player. Aside from AoC being a massive pile of dog crap PvE mmo, just goes to show how the piles of crap at Funcom run the game. They want to behave like AoC is a hardcore, badass, no other like it PvP game.

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/9085/gmszq7.jpg

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/2425/gms1xv7.jpg

I'm confused as to how they're 'abusing the system of killing others' in a PvP server, and a PvP game.

[LoBo]

Originally Posted by Heliopios

I'm confused as to how they're 'abusing the system of killing others' in a PvP server, and a PvP game.

From what I gather from reading both parts is, some higher level dude was killing some low level players. The low level players called a guildmate or two to come and help with the higher level that was killing them. The guildmates that got called in, ganked the higher level person that was killing the lowbies. The higher level person paged a GM after the guildmates that came to help killed him a few times.

[Ziegler]

From reading that, it looks alot to me like the GM is basically saying...

Hey, it's a PVP server and these guys are whining you are killing them alot.....how about you give me a break from their petitions and back off for a bit?


The only thing I have seen the GM's get upset with is load ganking, spawn ganking, and NPC dialogue ganking (goes to a cut screen, so you cant see them and have to escape out of it to be able to do anything.)...otherwise, it's pretty well open pvp except for the starter cities.

anyways, the game is a helluva alot better to play than Mortal Online, or Darkfall, or WAR....and I never did, nor ever will do WoW.

As to any of you that think anything about me because I play AoC....well, let me put it rather bluntly.

[Shawk]

Originally Posted by LoBo

I saw this on a mmo website forum in the AoC section and it made smile. Its a GM making threats to a player on a PvP server for killing another player. Aside from AoC being a massive pile of dog crap PvE mmo, just goes to show how the piles of crap at Funcom run the game. They want to behave like AoC is a hardcore, badass, no other like it PvP game.

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/9085/gmszq7.jpg

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/2425/gms1xv7.jpg

The PvP server in AoC is no different than Everquest PvP server or Daoc PvP server.. people just mindlessly kill people.

The GM had the right point and was in the right in those screens, he was telling the player to stop killing another player over and over again at a spawn point. The problem: a good game does not have that problem, and THAT, is why AOC is a peice of shit wannabe PvP game, just like the last 20 MMO's that were released in the past 10 years.

Darkfall and Mortal are the last hope.

[LoBo]

Funcom screw over guild leaders for gathering donation gold from its members.

http://www.aocsource.com/showthread.php?t=1142

[LoBo]

Originally Posted by Ziegler

From reading that, it looks alot to me like the GM is basically saying...

Hey, it's a PVP server and these guys are whining you are killing them alot.....how about you give me a break from their petitions and back off for a bit?


The only thing I have seen the GM's get upset with is load ganking, spawn ganking, and NPC dialogue ganking (goes to a cut screen, so you cant see them and have to escape out of it to be able to do anything.)...otherwise, it's pretty well open pvp except for the starter cities.

anyways, the game is a helluva alot better to play than Mortal Online, or Darkfall, or WAR....and I never did, nor ever will do WoW.

As to any of you that think anything about me because I play AoC....well, let me put it rather bluntly.

Aint none of you the bitch that sucks my dick, so how could I ever care what you think?

Open PvP is not zoned or instanced. AoC is not even close in any way to being a PvP mmo. There are free to play asian item mall grinders with more bzalls than AoC will ever have.

[Ziegler]

sounds like you are people are just upset about the instancing of zones. *shrugs* it's a trade off I am willing to make for the time being.

The last game to get close to launcing a seamless world mmo was Wish....and it failed in beta. Perhaps there is a good reason why nobody has sucessfully launched a A+ seamless world MMO in the past 5 years.

Which is why I dont have alot of faith in Mortal Online, but I am hoping and waiting to see if it pulls it off.

But, until such time as it hits beta or comes live, AoC is better than anything else out there for PVP in a mmo setting. (the open pvp servers I am speaking of, and I play on the RP-PVP server myself.)

EDIT: oh and the bannings...was becaused they traced back all the exploit duped gold. From what I have gathered, they have suspended most until they can confirm and then banning. No sympathy for duping exploits. I'd rather see a Dev company take a hardcore stance on this than a "it's no biggy" stance.

[Rhygar]

Yes, a hardcore no-nonsense stance on exploits is a very good thing. Ban away!

[LoBo]

Originally Posted by Ziegler

sounds like you are people are just upset about the instancing of zones. *shrugs* it's a trade off I am willing to make for the time being.

The last game to get close to launcing a seamless world mmo was Wish....and it failed in beta. Perhaps there is a good reason why nobody has sucessfully launched a A+ seamless world MMO in the past 5 years.

Which is why I dont have alot of faith in Mortal Online, but I am hoping and waiting to see if it pulls it off.

But, until such time as it hits beta or comes live, AoC is better than anything else out there for PVP in a mmo setting. (the open pvp servers I am speaking of, and I play on the RP-PVP server myself.)

EDIT: oh and the bannings...was becaused they traced back all the exploit duped gold. From what I have gathered, they have suspended most until they can confirm and then banning. No sympathy for duping exploits. I'd rather see a Dev company take a hardcore stance on this than a "it's no biggy" stance.

Trust me, its not just the zones and instances.

Item based
Gear based
Level based
Grind a to z
Harsh PvP restrictions
Made for wusses

AoC is a pure WoW and Guild Wars clone. Its just another pile of crap made to please mmo noobs. Even if AoC was a seamless world, I would not touch it. There are tons of mmo's out that wipe the floor with AoC, dont think your game is so bad arse.. its not. Well I guess you could think your game is bad arse if you have no real PvP skills and need to hide behind items, gear, harsh restrictions and instances.

[admiralnlson]

Originally Posted by LoBo

AoC is a pure WoW and Guild Wars clone.

Again, Guild Wars and AoC have nothing in common.

You can't compare AoC with GW if the only thing you know about GW is it's got instances.

AoC = WoW clone, with a lot of zoning, yes
AoC = WoW + GW clone, absolutely not



I agree with the rest. AoC is trash for a LOT of reasons.

[LoBo]

Originally Posted by admiralnlson

Again, Guild Wars and AoC have nothing in common.

You can't compare AoC with GW if the only thing you know about GW is it's got instances.

AoC = WoW clone, with a lot of zoning, yes
AoC = WoW + GW clone, absolutely not



I agree with the rest. AoC is trash for a LOT of reasons.

AoC has zones and instances just like Guild Wars, thats what I meant.

[Rhygar]

Instances I agree sucks. However, zones are not THAT bad. I would also prefer if they are not there, but the graphics in AoC is really nice and if the cost of that is zones then so be it.

[Ziegler]

Originally Posted by LoBo

Trust me, its not just the zones and instances.

Item based
Gear based
Level based
Grind a to z
Harsh PvP restrictions
Made for wusses

Item/gear/level/skill is a part of all RPG's....since chainmail. And AoC's gear is minimal for defining your ability in game.
Grind?....grind?!?....dude, you have not played the game, you dont have to grind til after 50+....and I'd wager they got more to add to that since it's approaching end game. The game hasnt been out for a month yet, and there are already max level characters....so, let's see...gear..nope, not defining like wow, no grind to speak of....and skill based will be level based reskinned, it'll be raising your skill instead of your level, but since levels usually raise a set package of skills in RPG's...this is just a system that allows more choice in what character you build....but you'll still be leveling....and that leaves "harsh PVP restrictions"....

Dont kill on zone in
Dont kill on spawn points
Dont kill on convo cut scenes

If you think that is harsh, then dont ever talk about PVP again, cause all you want is to be able to grief people with no chance of them fighting back. But hey, I know there is no convicing you Darkfall kids, you been drinking the kool-aid for way too long and cant see past it, or...a game that sounds an awfully lot like it.

But in the interest of giving you legitimate issues to complain about....
instancing/zones
unbalanced classes
no death penalty to speak of for the time being
lack of mature content


Personally, people talking about PVP in an MMORPG is funny anyways, if you wanted PVP, you'd be playing FPS's til the technology catches up to be able to make a MMOFPS without zones/instancing. (Which isnt going to happen in the near future)

[LoBo]

Originally Posted by Ziegler

Item/gear/level/skill is a part of all RPG's....since chainmail. And AoC's gear is minimal for defining your ability in game.
Grind?....grind?!?....dude, you have not played the game, you dont have to grind til after 50+....and I'd wager they got more to add to that since it's approaching end game. The game hasnt been out for a month yet, and there are already max level characters....so, let's see...gear..nope, not defining like wow, no grind to speak of....and skill based will be level based reskinned, it'll be raising your skill instead of your level, but since levels usually raise a set package of skills in RPG's...this is just a system that allows more choice in what character you build....but you'll still be leveling....and that leaves "harsh PVP restrictions"....

Dont kill on zone in
Dont kill on spawn points
Dont kill on convo cut scenes

If you think that is harsh, then dont ever talk about PVP again, cause all you want is to be able to grief people with no chance of them fighting back. But hey, I know there is no convicing you Darkfall kids, you been drinking the kool-aid for way too long and cant see past it, or...a game that sounds an awfully lot like it.

But in the interest of giving you legitimate issues to complain about....
instancing/zones
unbalanced classes
no death penalty to speak of for the time being
lack of mature content


Personally, people talking about PVP in an MMORPG is funny anyways, if you wanted PVP, you'd be playing FPS's til the technology catches up to be able to make a MMOFPS without zones/instancing. (Which isnt going to happen in the near future)

I love open PvP with full loot. I do not grief people, although I do PK my arse off. If a person does not want to be PKed.. then wtf are they doing playing a game with open PvP? If I get ganked in an mmo.... I pick myself up and come back. Do you think that I do not read? Do you think that I have no friends that have tested AoC? AoC is just another crap clone, I know that hurts you inside.

AoC was made for the wuss generation of noob mmo player. The newer generation just might be 90% wuss. I hope that Mortal Online will help some people to grow some rocks. Rocks are VERY important to dudes..... I hope that one day you find them so that they may grow.

[Rhygar]

Well AoC is NOT an open PvP game. That doesn't make it a bad game. Yes it's a bit of clone. So what? The story is engaging and the graphics awesome and the atmosphere immersive - if you have a system that can handle it. If the graphics sucks for you (read someone complain about it being problematic) then your system is probably not as uber as you thought.

I think what pisses most people off is that Funcom tried to sell AoC as something wholly different from the generic type, which is not true. They made some improvements to the recipe which makes the game quite enjoyable to play. Is the combat system what you want? No, but it's better than many of its predecessors. I'm not even sure it should have an M rating. You see more nudity and violence at 10pm on free TV in practically any country in the world. The classes are unbalanced? Of course they are, I don't think I have ever seen any game discussed on any forum where someone has not complained that this or that class so much more powerful than another. That's why a class-system sucks.

Does that make the game crap? NO!

Does it make Funcom fucknuts for marketing a false impression? YES!

Is it Mortal or Darkfall? NO!

If anything argue about that. One thing is sure and that is that AoC is a solid theme-park game. It's good for some entertainment. But yes, the novelty will wear off and it'll get boring. It's just not what we ideally want. But hopefully then we have either Mortal or Darkfall...

[The Last Spartan]

+1 Rep Rhygar.

Beautifully typed.

[LoBo]

Here is you bad arse AoC! Ok, I know most of the hardcore PvP guild fight as groups. My guild did much of this during Shadowbane and classic UO. Most PvP mmo's are not solo PK / PvP games.

How freaking sad is this? AoC GM tells a guild to stop killing people in groups. FKing sad.. lol! JHC, what a freaking pile of garbage.

This http://forum.goonheim.com/showthread.php?t=1073

And this,you can also see more of the convo http://digg.com/pc_games/Funcom_Tell...ople_in_Groups

[Ravenwoods]

GMs can be dickheads though due to whingers!

[The Last Spartan]

Does AoC come with a month free gaming?