Racial Benefits and Differences

[Damukag]

How big do you think racial benefits and, by extension, differences should be? Do you think there should be very large unique benefits, offering skills/spells to each race that only that race can use and effectively changing playstyle from race to race? Should they be small and most trivial, meaning that most races were almost the same in terms of all but appearance and location? Somewhere in between?

Thanks for your input.

[The Last Spartan]

A Magic based race might learn some spells a little faster because they're tied into the actual race.

[Shinzon]

I would say no benefits, purly cosmetic...

[kelthazan]

What would realy be cool if theres a bi-ped race that can go quadra-ped, like were-insertcreaturehere-.

[Damukag]

I guess so, so long as it wasn't like the Mahirim from Darkfall, who are bipedal animals but can drop to all fours to run at mount speed.

[rick]

cosmetics, starting area, language, culture, and maybe some quests. nothing more, i hope.

[Mirth]

I want for each race to have completely different playing styles. Though i don't really care about specifics, but i'd like to see as much diversity as possible. An example could be an avian race, weak in close combat, war magic and archery, needing to "charge" themselves under the sunlight, otherwise they couldn't fly and become greatly weakened. In terms of game mechanics it may look like limited or even restricted still trees, ability to fly and stamina dependant on lighting (more light - faster stamina regen, slower stamina drain).

[Maldibion]

I agree whit kelthazan would be cool see some were things still i dont care too much about races, just gona pick and axe and smash someone whit little elf ears or not.

[Oxim Oresi]

If the differences are minimal (like WoW for example), then they can leave it out completely. What's the point, when it's just different animations?
The differences should be bigger than a small number of spells. I want a fight against different races to be a different experience.

[Traceur]

heh, you guys probably know by now my opinion of this:
a race should provide a unique gameplay without taking from the natural diversity of other races, or not be there at all.

it's a very simple and affective screening system:
orcs are humans with greenskin and don't provide any additional gameplay? no for them.
dwarfs only serve to limit human height sliders? then they go away.
elves only limit the agility/intelligence attribute of humans? not in my game.
squids limit any other race? no. do they provide original gameplay? yes.
squids are added on the consideration table.

[Vanndal]

Cosmetic, height, culture, location, base attributes, and nothing more. I'd hate to fight a player that can see in the dark and I can't.

[Traceur]

Originally Posted by Vanndal

Cosmetic, height, culture, location, base attributes, and nothing more. I'd hate to fight a player that can see in the dark and I can't.

but what if you can do things that he can't?

[Lyllyth]

I, personally, would like to see something along the lines of; ((BaseStat + Modifier) * Racial Adjustment) + Gear bonus
Where...
BaseStat would be your starting stats
Modifier would be the adjustments through use
Racial Adjustment would be a set percentage based on Race (Orcs are stronger, Elves are more Agile, etc)
Gear bonus would be small (meaning Helpful but not Overpowering)

Let's take an Orc who's been working on Strength skills for a while...
((25 + 45) * 120%) + 5 = 89
vs a Gnome...
((25 + 45) * 80%) + 5 = 61

Just something I'd been mulling over for a time, and the more I think about it, the more it makes sense.

[ninja_boy]

I was thinking about something like this too. For example, I love the troll race in World of Warcraft, but the regeneration given to the troll isn't really that good since all the races can regenerate. So I was thinking for this game trolls, if trolls are in the game, can regenerate pretty quickly, but takes double damage with fire or acid attacks. Also trolls don't die unless you burn the body, so if you defeat a troll in combat, he just gets up again after a few minutes. I think this game would be really cool if races have there advantages and disadvantages....but this is just my opinion.

[rejekt]

I'm leaning more with Traceur on this subject; if the different races don't bring any real variety to the table, then there's no point in really going into the trouble of giving racials beyond the history/story, cosmetics/creation for balancing sake.

IMO Blizzard did a horrible job implementing racials for every race as well as the Priest racials. Haven't played any of the other games with racials to any extent to see how they did with them but I'm sure they're so minor that they rarely get used.

[Veith]

Normally different races are only reasoned by satisfying tastes of different appearance.
Some like long ears more others more boarteeth for their chars. But please gameplay same.
I hope really different will mean different to play and not only different look.

[MasterMind]

I've never been a big fan of racial benefits , but I don't oppose them. I rather see racial diversity in height,location,culture, and things like that.

[F0rd]

Originally Posted by Vanndal

Cosmetic, height, culture, location, base attributes, and nothing more. I'd hate to fight a player that can see in the dark and I can't.

Originally Posted by Traceur

but what if you can do things that he can't?

Hmm, just as an example, though I think I used this before.

There's a subterranean race of playable characters. They see in dark caves the same way you see out in the open, you wander into one of their caves and they've got you beat nine times out of ten, just because they can see you so much better, especially when your torch is put out. Yet when they're in full sunlight, everything is blindingly white, and they cannot see even the tips of their noses (or whatever serves as a point of reference, they need not have noses at all). Items like some sort of goggles that actually reduced the light getting to their eyes would be the equivalent of a torch for them, their vision may be severely limited by the goggles, but they couldn't see outside of their burrows to begin with, so it's a concession that must be made.

And while "seeing in the dark" wasn't really the point, and just an example, almost anything can be worked around in a similar manner, you just have to be open to the idea, or else failure quickly becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[Traceur]

and-a-good-example
+1rep

[Aiten]

I was thinking about a very similar thing actually Small (50cm-100cm), golemish, agile but weak, could only see in the dark, with the ability to crawl up walls and hang on ceilings like insects do, with either claws or natural suction pads in their hands and feet.

The fact the race would be limited to caves for the duration of ingame daylight, and their weakness, more than makes up for being agile, seeing better in the dark, and being able to climb vertical surfaces.

Two unique race ideas I would love to see would be

• The Semi Aquatic - having a monopoly on underwater resources, but always weaker on land.
• Beasts - playing a beast that feeds on people, grows stronger, before becoming revered with a blood curdling name ... hell yeah! (Obviously, couldn't communicate with normal humanoid players)
• Mute Telepaths - A race especially good at telekinesis, except can only communicate with themselves. To communicate with different species, they have to try visually with emotes, or hire a mage who speak through.

(Edit ... semi-aquatic can be easily abused though, its why I am so against alts on the same server. People will just use the aquatic as a gatherer, to support their crafter, who makes things for their combat ... the equivalent of screwing the economy)

[Traceur]

i do love the idea of a claw-species. it's the whole jumping, climbing, leching & scratching sort of gameplay. for me i just don't get how people can say no to it.

though about 3 dozen people said no to it last time i suggested one

[Aiten]

Originally Posted by Traceur

i do love the idea of a claw-species. it's the whole jumping, climbing, leching & scratching sort of gameplay. for me i just don't get how people can say no to it.

though about 3 dozen people said no to it last time i suggested one

It just means less people will play it. Doesn't mean people wont. Its fantasy, so we have to have the tall dash knight with long flowing blonde hair... meaning those of us who do play something a bit original, we get to feel individual. (Although I usually play a bald black chap ... they just look cooler than white guys with fluffy hair )

... and if I was to make a pure PVP character, the night vision, short, wall climbing, claw golem creature would be my first port of call. Stalk, pounce, run. Pure guerilla tactics - which really is unique in PVP

[Vanndal]

Originally Posted by F0rd

Hmm, just as an example, though I think I used this before.

There's a subterranean race of playable characters. They see in dark caves the same way you see out in the open, you wander into one of their caves and they've got you beat nine times out of ten, just because they can see you so much better, especially when your torch is put out. Yet when they're in full sunlight, everything is blindingly white, and they cannot see even the tips of their noses (or whatever serves as a point of reference, they need not have noses at all). Items like some sort of goggles that actually reduced the light getting to their eyes would be the equivalent of a torch for them, their vision may be severely limited by the goggles, but they couldn't see outside of their burrows to begin with, so it's a concession that must be made.

And while "seeing in the dark" wasn't really the point, and just an example, almost anything can be worked around in a similar manner, you just have to be open to the idea, or else failure quickly becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

lol this may be an example, but I don't think or at least hope this game doesn't limit people to be playing in caves just because their race only allows them to see in caves and be near blind in the world :P.

If anything I would rather everyone to see at the same light spectrum like we do in real life, (except the few exceptions..). Too much advantage in a certain aspect of a race will end up with half the server of that particular race claiming they aren't overpowered when they are.

If you played WoW, this is common... Players rolling a class + race combo that is insanely overpowered versus certain situation, when class itself was already imbalanced. Except don't expect WoW to get any more balanced any time soon, with the Death Knight Class coming out with abilities to stomp every single class down to the ground.

[Aiten]

Originally Posted by Vanndal

If anything I would rather everyone to see at the same light spectrum like we do in real life, (except the few exceptions..). Too much advantage in a certain aspect of a race will end up with half the server of that particular race claiming they aren't overpowered when they are.

So every race should play identically and be exactly balanced with everything else?
Sounds terribly grey to me.

Different scenarios mean different races should have the advantage.

[icon]

What I think about racials is that people tend to choose race depending on what class they play.
If you have an orc that has increased strength and better axe handling he'd be my first pick as a warrior type character.
Where an elf with higher intelligence and better ability to learn and use spells would be my first choice if I wanted a caster.
I wouldn't choose a orc and make a caster what would be the point and visa versa.
I would like racials so long as it doesn't stem character development like this. I want an orc that can be a caster or a healer or a crafter or a warrior... etc. But then again I also want something that sets them apart from every other race so you know you fighting a orc and not a human. And I'm not just talking about cosmetic differences.
Other choice is to have no racials and leave it just cosmetic. This would balance out game play and would leave the character developement in the players hands where I want it.

[Aiten]

Originally Posted by icon

Other choice is to have no racials and leave it just cosmetic.

Assuming some of us (well, me) will be fairly clever, by wearing cheap armour, and never displaying what I am (Full Plate = Warrior, therefore instantly know their weaknesses), racial differences could add a lot.
Lets say I play one of these small, darkness loving cave dwellers, if I see an orc, I can assume that fighting head on will leave me without a few limbs. I shouldn't know the 'class' of a player, therefore know their weaknesses, but I should be able to guess from their race.

If races are merely cosmetic, you could have a tinkerbell fairy, fight as a warrior, and defeat a player who chose to be a 10ft ogre. A human fighter might not struggle against an orc, but would certainly struggle against that 10ft ogre.
In the same light, it makes people play differently, so if I was that 10ft ogre, I would waltz into battle like a drunk hobo, smashing everyone I see. If I were to play a human fighter, I might be able to get away with that. If I go for a smaller, nible race, as a fighter then there is no way I can go head first.

Sure, let people choose what they want to do with it, but make the races somewhat different to play as. A human assassin might play like Alteir, mixing into the crowd before striking a suprise blow, a golem who can see in the dark-assassin would have to play like a vampire (from the shadows, at night, attacking from behind).

I can't see how thats a bad thing?

[icon]

I get where you coming from Aiten and yes what you say would be nice. I just think that variety is needed and seeing everyone choose an orc to make a warrior when you get to town and see 50 orc warriors it becomes a little boring. But I like your idea's and maybe what you can have is class specific racial benefits. So if you a caster and you a orc you have greater affinity to spirit magic then an elf or is better in arcane magic.
A orc assissin vs a human assissin the orc can hit harder and has better reflexes (dodging), where the human can sneak around better and maybe use disguises.

[Earendel]

I think that the different races should have base racial differences on primary attributes. This would only change the character’s original disposition, and not affect their possible maximums. The character could exaggerate this predisposition, or