Any one want WOW to fail

[Arxon Havenloft]

One thing that Zoulz did remind me of in all of this was that some people really do like it easy and equate easy with "good". Who am I to say that their opinion is wrong? I equate good with skill involved, player features, and the overall feel of the game. Is WoW easy? Well yes, I guess it is. Is it good? Well, in my opinion, of course not.

People think things such as travel time increasing the duration of your subscription and the like are mere paranoia. In reality it's more of a science. It's no secret how certain games use time sinks, gold sinks, item sinks, etc.. in order to increase the length of your playing cycle. There are sciences that prove that the longer it takes you to feel "achieved and powerful" the longer you'll keep playing with that as your ultimate goal. Hence the value of levels in general for many games.

Originally Posted by Zoulz

When a hardcore gamer looks at a hardcore game, he sees sophistication, magnificence, and, most important, art as if it were a mirror image facing him. When a hardcore gamer looks as a casual game, he sees simplicity, non-art, easiness, and, in sum, a retardation of gaming. Hardcore view casual games not as progress in gaming but as games tailor made for gaming retards.

I can agree with that. Because I can agree with that, I guess I cannot speak for everyone when I say that WoW was not a good game. I mean, gaming retards have opinions too.

[Unomat]

Well, in the end it's kinda hard to pit an opinion against evolution / survival of the fittest

"You cannot stand in front of a train in full motion and live!"
"Well, I am of the opinion..." - splash

Just because people are entitled to their own opinion doesn't mean all those opinions are of equal value ^^

[Drakus]

I can't believe this thread is still alive and thriving.

[Lukeyg22]

Wows junk end of thread.....

[Unomat]

Are you sure

[Arxon Havenloft]

I do wonder how many subscribers they will lose at the next expansion. I've been told by many people that they don't intend to upgrade. I wonder just how many people have similar thoughts.

[telmehow]

i wish it would i mean i played wow for 2 years and ya know what it absolutely sux. i dont remember much from the game besides jumping around. and lately blizz f'ed it all up and made pve eaither karazhan or sunwell and pvp good or fail. GG no re

[Lachrymose]

Originally Posted by Arxon Havenloft

I do wonder how many subscribers they will lose at the next expansion. I've been told by many people that they don't intend to upgrade. I wonder just how many people have similar thoughts.

i quit playing last year. i was planning on quitting when wotlk came out anyways, then i thought about it a little and decided "why bother? i'm just wasting my time anyway."

Originally Posted by Unomat

Are you sure

unomat, stop trying to get this thread riled up.

[Unomat]

Well, if someone types "end of thread" he's practically begging for such a comment

[Lukeyg22]

Originally Posted by Unomat

Well, if someone types "end of thread" he's practically begging for such a comment

Thats cause that game is a Fail. Gives alot people fail, I have played it from beta a until last year sadly (the game wrecked MMO's) who cares if they have a milllion+ carebares..

[Unomat]

I think we have wasted about the same amount of time in that game Lukeyg22. Then again, spending that amount of time in front of a television would have been a bigger waste ^^

I think the following observation from this blog in OCT 2005 (!) about sums it all up:

Originally Posted by Chris Pearce

I saw your open question as to whether World of Warcraft had some characteristics that caused it to trend towards lower guild sizes.

I've been playing World of Warcraft since release. In short, your answer is "yes".

Compared to other MMOs, World of Warcraft is different in significant respects. The level grind to cap (60) is -much- less intense than in comparable games. I believe that the average time to 60 in terms of days played is about 15 days and it can be much less for a veteran player.

WoW is very quest-oriented and a majority of quests are accomplishable solo. Quests usually fall into the typical categories of kill-quests, loot-quests, and Fedexes. If you want to level quickly, you do this by solo grinding and cherry-picking quests.

On the path to 60, WoW offers several instanced raid dungeons. On the alliance side, there's Deadmines, Stockades, Shadowfang Keep, Uldaman, Scarlet Monastery, Zul'Farrak, Maraudon, Sunken Temple. These instances have some quests in them, but, in addition, they're participant-capped. No more than 5 grouped players can be in the instance parts of these dungeons.

This has the effect of allowing guilds with less than 5 regular people to successfully reach level cap as a social group.

Once a player reaches 60, however, things start to change. 60th level players very quickly exhaust the number of quests that are available to them. This leaves only the high-end instances to do:

Blackrock Depths
Stratholme
Scholomance
Blackrock Spire
Zul'Gurub
Molten Core

The maximum number of players who can participate on these endgame instances increases dramatically. Blackrock Depths is limited to 5 participants. Strat and Scholo are 10, I think. Blackrock Spire is 15. Molten Core is 40. Zul'Gurub is a new "starter" raid instance that requires 20.

Small guilds who make it to 60 often find that they are 'stranded', without enough critical mass to perform the higher level raid instances but without the connections to join with other guilds to participate in them. This abrupt transition of the gameplay at the end from casual to hardcore is a common player complaint.

Another factor that may lead to smaller guild sizes in the endgame compared to Ultima Online is that practically all raid content IS instanced. This means that to get the best loot, a guild needs to be able to muster only the raid-limit cap for that particular instance. In contrast, in Ultima Online, my understanding is that many of the end-game bosses are out 'in the open' and on long spawns. This means that to achieve success, guilds in that game not only need to be able to muster enough players to defeat the raid encounter but must ALSO achieve enough mass in order to prevent other guilds from dominating the spawn. This becomes a sheer numbers game.

TLDR version: WoW is way too solo-friendly and once you reach max level, you'll be bored out of your skull unless you like spending your time at the same bar... err in the same instance meeting the same faces day in day out

Nothing wrong with people who like that, it took a while to realize I'm just not one of them.

[Lukeyg22]

Originally Posted by Unomat

I think we have wasted about the same amount of time in that game Lukeyg22. Then again, spending that amount of time in front of a television would have been a bigger waste ^^

I think the following observation from this blog in OCT 2005 (!) about sums it all up:


TLDR version: WoW is way too solo-friendly and once you reach max level, you'll be bored out of your skull unless you like spending your time at the same bar... err in the same instance meeting the same faces day in day out

Nothing wrong with people who like that, it took a while to realize I'm just not one of them.

Dont get me wrong back in the days of UO, Bank sitting was nice once an while.. but the way PvP was so gear/time based.... a Far less skilled player will more time/gear could match or easily out do a Skilled less gear/time player. UO = LOGGIN KILL or CHILL! it was smooth ... Miss a month pop on shake the rust off and do some killing!

[Ondor]

Originally Posted by Shinzon

Then the other MMO's are not doing anything radical enough to warrant their own survival; look at EVE Online, they have a stable subscribe base of roughly 500 000; that is a large amount of people, and is considered healthy.

Spot on.

A developer even blamed Blizzard and World of Warcraft for ruining the industry at...what was it, GC last year? or E3?

Problem being though, that everyone is cloning everyone these days! Nearly everyone, besides blizzard, seem to have a problem though: Branding. Blizzard have the characters, and the lore. Many people know the characters, and are rather familiar with them (Seeing as the storyline has been in development for many years throughout Warcraft 1-3). Add to that the good launch (By MMO standards), and the fact that they're rather darn low on bugs/technical issues, and to some extend balancing issues. Their game is even accesible for anyone. You can just create a character, and play the game, simple as that. They even had great advertising plans leading up to the launch of WoW, and they're still going.

Enter Vanguard. There's a world, that no one's ever heard about, we're unfamiliar with the lore, and we're feeling really alienated. Bad interface, very bad launch by MMO standards, extreme lack of content, bugged core features, MISSING core features. The game practicaly died in a few months. And the PR? Heck, I never really heard about Vangauard until a friend told me, and I visit various gaming news sites frequently. EvE is in it's own league, seeing as it's in space :P

World of (Insert brand here). Lord of the rings, Star wars, Conan, DC comics, Star trek, Matrix, you name it. They have the brand, now to use it properly...which is where it mostly fails. They see the treadmill that is WoW/EQ/whatever clone of the model. They see the amount of cash that's being made...who wouldn't want some of those greens? It's either that, or they mostly fail at being original, seeing as they all end up as clones of "Insert generic PvE treadmill-asian-grinder-game here". If it's due to pressure from investors/publishers, I can't say. But it's a possibility. Question being though: Why is everyone trying to cater to a segment, that's already got all they could ever ask for, in WoW?

It really puzzles me, that so many years have passed, until someone finally thought "Oh, there isn't really a PvP game out there, that isn't in outer space". A segment (Some assume it's a minority, I don't have any official numbers) that hasn't been catered to for years... Build a game for them, then add some sugar on top, that might attract the other segment. It'll create an economical foundation for the game to run on, minority or not. Yes, I'm talking about the PKs, the PvPers, call em what you like.

If someone were to start there, and go the other way around for a change...I'd gladly make a bet on that!

[Isil]

New wow players are a VIRUS that will contaminate future pvp games.

Those potentially good pvp games like MO or darkfall , might be contaminated by all wow players /crys over the forums becase they get killed and full looted , just because they started playing mmorpgs with a game like WOW and they dont understand anything else and most of them cant adapt.. when MO or Darkfall devs understand that ex wow players population is big and that mean money for them , they will start listening to the /crys, making new pvp rules and restrictions ....what happened with AOC ? in a future patch they want to introduce murderer system where u cant atack players 10 lvl lower than you..is just the beginning.
If everytime you see a /cry in a forum you ask , you will se that 99.9% of the /crys come from WOW players.

I hope wow dies before more virus are created.

[Zoulz]

Originally Posted by Isil

New wow players are a VIRUS that will contaminate future pvp games.

Those potentially good pvp games like MO or darkfall , might be contaminated by all wow players /crys over the forums becase they get killed and full looted , just because they started playing mmorpgs with a game like WOW and they dont understand anything else and most of them cant adapt.. when MO or Darkfall devs understand that ex wow players population is big and that mean money for them , they will start listening to the /crys, making new pvp rules and restrictions ....what happened with AOC ? in a future patch they want to introduce murderer system where u cant atack players 10 lvl lower than you..is just the beginning.
If everytime you see a /cry in a forum you ask , you will se that 99.9% of the /crys come from WOW players.

I hope wow dies before more virus are created.

This must be the most ignorant and prejudice post i've read on this board so far.

If you love pvp so much, why don't you play multiplayer games like team fortress 2, quake or battlefield 2? It's completely skill-based, so if you suck you can't blame the game. No restrictions, just tons of action.

I really don't see the point in making a mmo that only offers pvp. Why would I play it in favor of a multiplayer game which does pvp much better than a mmo ever would?

[zekemorgan]

Originally Posted by Arxon Havenloft

I do wonder how many subscribers they will lose at the next expansion. I've been told by many people that they don't intend to upgrade. I wonder just how many people have similar thoughts.

I heard Death Knight (the new class) will be the WoW killer because everyone will eventually reach level 80, unlock the Death Knight, and then everyone will want to try the new class so a bunch of Death Knights will be running around looking for parties with less of the standard classes running around.

The exception would be if the Death Knight can tank, heal, DD, and crowd control. But I'm pretty sure Death Knight if just a tank or dd, I don't remember which.

Hero classes have been tried in other games and it creates an unbalance of diversity of classes...historically speaking

[Zoulz]

Originally Posted by zekemorgan

I heard Death Knight (the new class) will be the WoW killer because everyone will eventually reach level 80, unlock the Death Knight, and then everyone will want to try the new class so a bunch of Death Knights will be running around looking for parties with less of the standard classes running around.

The exception would be if the Death Knight can tank, heal, DD, and crowd control. But I'm pretty sure Death Knight if just a tank or dd, I don't remember which.

Hero classes have been tried in other games and it creates an unbalance of diversity of classes...historically speaking

Death knights are unlocked at level 55, and you can only have one per realm.

[ViolentWhisper]

This thread have dereailed to another discussion.. Closed.