looking backwards

osteo · 25th May 2008, 11:31

I just had a thought about something. I love the fact that mortal online is a first person view, but one thing i am sick of though is feeling like im driving a car. I think you should not have to turn your entire body to see behind you. I think you should have to just click a button or something to look behind you, or maybe even have a small window or something pop up in the upper right hand corner that disappears when you release the button. I dont know just a thought what do you all think?

Blahman · 25th May 2008, 11:57

Well I really dislike the idea of a rear view mirror/window thing as that would be cheesetastic.

It might be a good idea instead to have two different mouselook/movement modes. One for combat and one for cruising and sight-seeing.

The combat mode would be what you're used to with FPS games. Move the mouse and your whole body turns. This way you control your direction of movement with the mouse. You use A and D to strafe.

The cruise mode would let you look around separately from your movement. So you could mouse around to look to your sides or behind you while moving forward or backward. You would use A and D to turn left and right. You couldn't strafe, but then again you wouldn't have much reason to since you're not in combat. You could set a key to toggle between the two modes, or associate it with the enter/exit combat stance key.

This would be cool for immersion and machinima, provided the animations looked good. Instead of your whole body rotating on-axis as you look around, only your head and (to a lesser extent) upper body would turn until they reached uncomfortable limits, and all the while you could be walking or running around quite naturally.

Other people would also be able to see where you were looking, so that assassin stalking you would know you were looking around. Or tie it in with a point emote and you could point at whatever you're looking at independent of your leg movement.

A little more on how the animations might look/work:
In "cruise mode" you can turn your view point 180 degrees left or right from center, but you couldn't spin around a full 360 degrees like an owl.

For the first 90 degrees, only your head would rotate. Beyond that your upper body would start to rotate along with your head, up to about 150 degrees, and beyond that (you're really stretching here), only your eyes would rotate the rest of the way for the full 180 degrees, looking straight behind you. There would be similar limits to the animation/rotation extents when looking straight up or straight down.

I like the idea of being able to actually control your own character's most minute movements down to their eyeballs in this manner. If there is self-rendering, meaning your own body is rendered in first person view, you could check out your armor, clothing, or just your sexy body (lol) by looking around in "cruise mode". Also when looking over your shoulder to see behind you, you could actually see your shoulder!

The Last Spartan · 25th May 2008, 12:24

You either have to turn around, or you get hit. Having a button that spins your view 180 degrees would ruin the whole feel of the game amongst other things.

Aiten · 25th May 2008, 12:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Last Spartan

You either have to turn around, or you get hit. Having a button that spins your view 180 degrees would ruin the whole feel of the game amongst other things.

... but I can turn at least 145 degrees. Combined with the fact FPV means we only get a tiny proportion of what we see in real life (we are missing half our vision) etc. I think a button to quickly swivel your head round to check your back is a good thing. Its also less obvious for stalkers to see if your looking as your not turning your body around to look, so you could surprise the attacker.

Camper · 26th May 2008, 05:49

Well. I think that there should be 2 modes: combat mode (when you unsheath your weapon) and "normal" mode. In combat mode you will turn with your body, in normal mode, you should be able to look around, but once you press a movement key, you will face the direction that you are looking, and move relatively to that.

But there is not much point, except for realism, to implement that.

A third option is the Dark-Messiah-ish type of movement (hard to explain).

Aiten · 26th May 2008, 13:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camper

in normal mode, you should be able to look around, but once you press a movement key,

Like FSX or BF2. Press Ctrl and it gives you free look with the mouse, whilst continuing to move forward or backward in your original direction, release Ctrl and your view is re-centered and your mouse can be used for steering again.

It really would be useful.

If you have the /follow command, running through a city, you could be looking left to make sure your group doesn't get ambushed, the next person would look right, and the back person keeps checking their behind.
Being stalked, its easier to check without making the stalker panic and attack before your ready.
RP. In a tavern, you move your head and not your body to look at people.

osteo · 26th May 2008, 19:28

ya but i have to agree with aiten cuz if you have to turn your body to look around thats been done ya you all can say all you have to do is use your mouse to turn around but like i said im tired of this cuz you would have to break formation to do so real quick. Also, Evertime i do this its like why cant i just turn my head. So i agree at least left click and hold and swivel around not to the point where you would break your neck. All this does i know is immerse us into our characters a little more thats all .

Ok, fine how about this make it a flag that can be turned on and off. We will leave it up to the user to decide, plus it adds realism. This forum talks about how they luv realism

Shinzon · 26th May 2008, 20:26

Eh... I don't know whats all the fuss is about; one quick flick of the wrist and I saw the entire battlefield, and another two quick flicks and two clicks and "BOOOM HEEAADSHOOT"

OMGPIE · 27th May 2008, 21:48

Good point I like this idea of pushing a button and being able to see behind you because it really isn't hard to turn your head and then if you move your eyes as well you can completely see behind you, so you shouldn't have to turn your entire body to see behind you.

osteo · 19th August 2008, 13:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shinzon

Eh... I don't know whats all the fuss is about; one quick flick of the wrist and I saw the entire battlefield, and another two quick flicks and two clicks and "BOOOM HEEAADSHOOT"

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you crack me up shinzon.

Hypnos · 19th August 2008, 14:03

First person view can improve sharpness, but it could be fun if some ambush can be possible if none can't look behind without move here character for look behind.

niblick · 19th August 2008, 17:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shinzon

Eh... I don't know whats all the fuss is about; one quick flick of the wrist and I saw the entire battlefield

agreed.

osteo · 22nd August 2008, 10:19

I dont mean to beat a wooden stick but heres another point. Maybe i know some one is behind me, and i dont want to give this away. I could stop a ambush with this feature. At the same time it should be a animation so if you turn your head everyone could see it, but that might be pushing it.

Rathius · 23rd August 2008, 05:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by osteo

I dont mean to beat a wooden stick but heres another point. Maybe i know some one is behind me, and i dont want to give this away. I could stop a ambush with this feature. At the same time it should be a animation so if you turn your head everyone could see it, but that might be pushing it.

If you are looking behind you, everyone should be able to see that. Your eye movement doesn't really let you see that much more without your head turning.

As for having it on a button, I don't like that. When I experienced something like that it was in Final Fantasy XI and the button use was annoying, because I wanted to mainly see something in between forward and where the button would face me. I'm thinking it should just be set to some sort of mouselook toggle. Depending on how far you look your body adjusts. Head first, followed by the shoulders and torso.

ccoa · 23rd August 2008, 06:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rathius

Depending on how far you look your body adjusts. Head first, followed by the shoulders and torso.

I agree. Also adding footstep sounds would be a great. That way if someone was wearing heavy boots you would definatley know they were behind you, possibly adding a skill that makes your footsteps lighter.

Eldrek · 23rd August 2008, 09:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by osteo

I just had a thought about something. I love the fact that mortal online is a first person view, but one thing i am sick of though is feeling like im driving a car. I think you should not have to turn your entire body to see behind you. I think you should have to just click a button or something to look behind you, or maybe even have a small window or something pop up in the upper right hand corner that disappears when you release the button. I dont know just a thought what do you all think?

I don't understand what you're saying.. You can walk in any direction while looking forward, backward, up, down, left, right or anywhere. You can only go forward or backward in a car (of course you can turn, but you can't make the car go sideways) to me it sounds like you're making first person view MORE like driving a car..

Where ever you are looking on your screen is like where your character's eyes would be looking, the screen view is the limits to where your eyes can see before you have to turn your head or body (mouse movement) furthermore why should you be able to see behind you? That ruins the purpose of first person view..

If you're just saying you want a button that gives a look-over-your-shoulder animation, what's stopping the standard animation from moving your head, then moving your body once it gets to it's maximum movement range and ect.. Only thing I see as to why you wouldn't be able to do that is aiming your weapon (would be odd to attack something to the left of where you're holding your sword) but it could do that while your weapon is sheathed. Also if you're wearing stiff plate armor you'd have to turn around quite a bit to see behind you

monteefyster · 23rd August 2008, 11:31

a spin button? OMG lets get real, if you are walking in real life, you MUST tun to see behind you. "Rear View Mirror" not a good idea. Lets face it, in any good mmorpg, there will already be enough stuff cluttering up the screen, without adding more things to block your screen view. I believe you should just stay with turning around.

|\/|[]|\|TEE

osteo · 25th August 2008, 05:50

Eldrek, I think you missed my point and ya the rear window was a bad idea. I was just saying that i dont believe i should only have the option to see what is straight ahead of me. Monteefyster, If you turn your head you can look over your shoulder. Ya you cant see everything behind you. You can really only see half of whats behind you. In order to see everything behind you without letting people know you are looking behind you, you look over both shoulders.

You could use this to your advantage too. if I have a stealth detection skill and you detect the attacker, the attacker may not know you see him comming so the looking over your shoulder feature tacked on with a stealth detection skill could be very useful.

Heliopios · 25th August 2008, 09:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by osteo

You could use this to your advantage too. if I have a stealth detection skill and you detect the attacker, the attacker may not know you see him comming so the looking over your shoulder feature tacked on with a stealth detection skill could be very useful.

'Stealth Detection' will be the player's ability to look around, not some magical uncloaking device for an invisible rogue.

Zigkirby · 29th August 2008, 00:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heliopios

'Stealth Detection' will be the player's ability to look around, not some magical uncloaking device for an invisible rogue.

Of course, in a perfect non-magical system this would be true, but in an MMO it's impossible to really do a non-seethrough/invisible stealthing system

catmorbid · 29th August 2008, 13:27

Could be a useful feature. I wouldn't weep myself to sleep if it didn't make it to the game, though

ServerLatency · 30th August 2008, 02:57

Hmm I think just moving the mouse to change the view is usually..fast enough.
Of course I have no idea how fast we would be able to change views in game..

*Side note..* Spin button +slash=spin slash? Ridiculous but Cool! Everyone loves Hurricane slash attacks, right?
...Might be watching too much japanese stuff these days...

osteo · 1st September 2008, 05:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heliopios

'Stealth Detection' will be the player's ability to look around, not some magical uncloaking device for an invisible rogue.

If you look in the questions and answers one of the devs brought up that this would be in the game im not going to go and search and dig for you.

I wont loose sleep either cator. I just wanted to make sure everyone understood what i was talking about. Hopefully i got my point across.

Manorothh · 1st September 2008, 09:20

I dont like that about a... "pop up"? If you want to look around, use the mouse, you arent a car...
Someone remember Dark Messiah?

Xyphon · 1st September 2008, 15:50

I dunno... I don't like the idea of a "rear view mirror" or "instant 180" switch in vision. I know we're not out to make a life simulator here, but those just seem bad to me.

Mouselook has always worked fine for so long... why change it? If Darkfall goes with the standard FPS camera (move the mouse, move your vision), then they can make it so if you hold down the Right button, for instance, then only your view changes - you continue walking straight. If they use the tried-and-true way of holding the left button and moving the mouse to change your viewpoint, and holding the right button and moving the mouse to change your direction, I think it would work fine.

In real life you need to look over your shoulder to see what's happening behind you, and that takes time. As far as I know, there is no ability to instantly look behind you without the benefit of a mirror

.

(again, not trying to make this a life simulator... just trying to say that this idea would take away from the immersion of the game, at least in my opinion)

Rathius · 1st September 2008, 18:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xyphon

Mouselook has always worked fine for so long... why change it? If Darkfall goes with the standard FPS camera (move the mouse, move your vision), then they can make it so if you hold down the Right button, for instance, then only your view changes - you continue walking straight. If they use the tried-and-true way of holding the left button and moving the mouse to change your viewpoint, and holding the right button and moving the mouse to change your direction, I think it would work fine.

Tried and true left button right button?
http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/2...html#post47248

What ever happened to WASD and mouselook?

osteo · 2nd September 2008, 18:16

Everyone is saying the samething here i might be confused on how the controls are goind to work. Anyone elaborate or direct me to how we will control our characters.

Secondly i already admitted that a rear view was bad idea read the whole thread plz.

25th May 2008, 11:31	#1 (permalink)
osteo Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 114 Rep Power: 0	looking backwards I just had a thought about something. I love the fact that mortal online is a first person view, but one thing i am sick of though is feeling like im driving a car. I think you should not have to turn your entire body to see behind you. I think you should have to just click a button or something to look behind you, or maybe even have a small window or something pop up in the upper right hand corner that disappears when you release the button. I dont know just a thought what do you all think?

25th May 2008, 11:57	#2 (permalink)
Blahman Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 150 Rep Power: 1	Well I really dislike the idea of a rear view mirror/window thing as that would be cheesetastic. It might be a good idea instead to have two different mouselook/movement modes. One for combat and one for cruising and sight-seeing. The combat mode would be what you're used to with FPS games. Move the mouse and your whole body turns. This way you control your direction of movement with the mouse. You use A and D to strafe. The cruise mode would let you look around separately from your movement. So you could mouse around to look to your sides or behind you while moving forward or backward. You would use A and D to turn left and right. You couldn't strafe, but then again you wouldn't have much reason to since you're not in combat. You could set a key to toggle between the two modes, or associate it with the enter/exit combat stance key. This would be cool for immersion and machinima, provided the animations looked good. Instead of your whole body rotating on-axis as you look around, only your head and (to a lesser extent) upper body would turn until they reached uncomfortable limits, and all the while you could be walking or running around quite naturally. Other people would also be able to see where you were looking, so that assassin stalking you would know you were looking around. Or tie it in with a point emote and you could point at whatever you're looking at independent of your leg movement. A little more on how the animations might look/work: In "cruise mode" you can turn your view point 180 degrees left or right from center, but you couldn't spin around a full 360 degrees like an owl. For the first 90 degrees, only your head would rotate. Beyond that your upper body would start to rotate along with your head, up to about 150 degrees, and beyond that (you're really stretching here), only your eyes would rotate the rest of the way for the full 180 degrees, looking straight behind you. There would be similar limits to the animation/rotation extents when looking straight up or straight down. I like the idea of being able to actually control your own character's most minute movements down to their eyeballs in this manner. If there is self-rendering, meaning your own body is rendered in first person view, you could check out your armor, clothing, or just your sexy body (lol) by looking around in "cruise mode". Also when looking over your shoulder to see behind you, you could actually see your shoulder! Last edited by Blahman : 25th May 2008 at 12:25.

25th May 2008, 12:24	#3 (permalink)
The Last Spartan Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 551 Rep Power: 2	You either have to turn around, or you get hit. Having a button that spins your view 180 degrees would ruin the whole feel of the game amongst other things. __________________ My idea of a Magic System. Look for my posts. My idea of a Veteran Reward. Look for my post.

26th May 2008, 05:49	#5 (permalink)
Camper Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 30 Rep Power: 1	Well. I think that there should be 2 modes: combat mode (when you unsheath your weapon) and "normal" mode. In combat mode you will turn with your body, in normal mode, you should be able to look around, but once you press a movement key, you will face the direction that you are looking, and move relatively to that. But there is not much point, except for realism, to implement that. A third option is the Dark-Messiah-ish type of movement (hard to explain). __________________ "This city is a melting pot, and all the scum floats to the top." - Vimes, city guard

26th May 2008, 20:26	#8 (permalink)
Shinzon Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Toronto, Ontario Age: 19 Posts: 937 Rep Power: 3	Eh... I don't know whats all the fuss is about; one quick flick of the wrist and I saw the entire battlefield, and another two quick flicks and two clicks and "BOOOM HEEAADSHOOT" __________________ www.aegis-imperium.com

26th May 2008, 19:28	#7 (permalink)
osteo Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 114 Rep Power: 0	ya but i have to agree with aiten cuz if you have to turn your body to look around thats been done ya you all can say all you have to do is use your mouse to turn around but like i said im tired of this cuz you would have to break formation to do so real quick. Also, Evertime i do this its like why cant i just turn my head. So i agree at least left click and hold and swivel around not to the point where you would break your neck. All this does i know is immerse us into our characters a little more thats all . Ok, fine how about this make it a flag that can be turned on and off. We will leave it up to the user to decide, plus it adds realism. This forum talks about how they luv realism

27th May 2008, 21:48	#9 (permalink)
OMGPIE Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Omnipresent Posts: 1,504 Rep Power: 4	Good point I like this idea of pushing a button and being able to see behind you because it really isn't hard to turn your head and then if you move your eyes as well you can completely see behind you, so you shouldn't have to turn your entire body to see behind you. __________________

19th August 2008, 14:03	#11 (permalink)
Hypnos Junior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: France Age: 28 Posts: 29 Rep Power: 1	First person view can improve sharpness, but it could be fun if some ambush can be possible if none can't look behind without move here character for look behind.

22nd August 2008, 10:19	#13 (permalink)
osteo Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 114 Rep Power: 0	I dont mean to beat a wooden stick but heres another point. Maybe i know some one is behind me, and i dont want to give this away. I could stop a ambush with this feature. At the same time it should be a animation so if you turn your head everyone could see it, but that might be pushing it.

23rd August 2008, 11:31	#17 (permalink)
monteefyster Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 82 Rep Power: 1	a spin button? OMG lets get real, if you are walking in real life, you MUST tun to see behind you. "Rear View Mirror" not a good idea. Lets face it, in any good mmorpg, there will already be enough stuff cluttering up the screen, without adding more things to block your screen view. I believe you should just stay with turning around. \|\/\|[]\|\\|TEE __________________ "you may beat on me,beat me up & beat me down. If you leave without taking my soul,you will forever be looking behind you. I will hunt you down and strip you of your soul,leaving your empty shell of a body for the walking dead to devour in all their feasting pleasures"

25th August 2008, 05:50	#18 (permalink)
osteo Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 114 Rep Power: 0	Eldrek, I think you missed my point and ya the rear window was a bad idea. I was just saying that i dont believe i should only have the option to see what is straight ahead of me. Monteefyster, If you turn your head you can look over your shoulder. Ya you cant see everything behind you. You can really only see half of whats behind you. In order to see everything behind you without letting people know you are looking behind you, you look over both shoulders. You could use this to your advantage too. if I have a stealth detection skill and you detect the attacker, the attacker may not know you see him comming so the looking over your shoulder feature tacked on with a stealth detection skill could be very useful.

29th August 2008, 13:27	#21 (permalink)
catmorbid Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Finland Posts: 545 Rep Power: 2	Could be a useful feature. I wouldn't weep myself to sleep if it didn't make it to the game, though __________________ Judgement and Perserverance "There's more to the picture, than meets the eye" ESAK: Achiever 33.33%, Explorer 86.67%, Killer 26.67%, Socializer 60.00% Questions about MO? Try this info summary! Follower of the Great Cat God Felissos

30th August 2008, 02:57	#22 (permalink)
ServerLatency Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 27 Rep Power: 1	Hmm I think just moving the mouse to change the view is usually..fast enough. Of course I have no idea how fast we would be able to change views in game.. Side note.. Spin button +slash=spin slash? Ridiculous but Cool! Everyone loves Hurricane slash attacks, right? ...Might be watching too much japanese stuff these days...

1st September 2008, 09:20	#24 (permalink)
Manorothh Newbie Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Spain Posts: 48 Rep Power: 1	I dont like that about a... "pop up"? If you want to look around, use the mouse, you arent a car... Someone remember Dark Messiah?

1st September 2008, 15:50	#25 (permalink)
Xyphon Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 16 Rep Power: 1	I dunno... I don't like the idea of a "rear view mirror" or "instant 180" switch in vision. I know we're not out to make a life simulator here, but those just seem bad to me. Mouselook has always worked fine for so long... why change it? If Darkfall goes with the standard FPS camera (move the mouse, move your vision), then they can make it so if you hold down the Right button, for instance, then only your view changes - you continue walking straight. If they use the tried-and-true way of holding the left button and moving the mouse to change your viewpoint, and holding the right button and moving the mouse to change your direction, I think it would work fine. In real life you need to look over your shoulder to see what's happening behind you, and that takes time. As far as I know, there is no ability to instantly look behind you without the benefit of a mirror . (again, not trying to make this a life simulator... just trying to say that this idea would take away from the immersion of the game, at least in my opinion)

2nd September 2008, 18:16	#27 (permalink)
osteo Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 114 Rep Power: 0	Everyone is saying the samething here i might be confused on how the controls are goind to work. Anyone elaborate or direct me to how we will control our characters. Secondly i already admitted that a rear view was bad idea read the whole thread plz.

3rd September 2008, 01:19	#28 (permalink)
Xyphon Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 16 Rep Power: 1