Please make everyone be fully lootable when dead! - Page 2

Cardinal Harvest · 27th July 2008, 00:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traceur

leader: "how many casualties for the enemy?"
soldier: "i see one right here, male knight, equipment looks quite expensive"
leader: "take it, we are filling up the wagons for the shipments back home"
soldier: "omg sir! it's stuck!"
leader: "what do you mean it's stuck?"
soldier: "the sword - it's stuck to the body - i can't remove it!"
leader: "are you sure that's his 'sword' your trying to pull?"

lol

Heliopios · 27th July 2008, 01:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polgara

Thx
regards
Polgara

It all depends on what Belgarath wants.

Have you consulted Beldurnik?

seniorfrito · 27th July 2008, 12:06

I don't know if I really like the idea of being able to loot someone completely or even at all upon death. I mean think of it this way, I'm a casual gamer and if I don't have the same skill as someone else who just wants to sit in a newbie zone and prawn all day, I'm just going to keep dieing. Does it make for a more realistic game? Of course, but I think that the number of people that would leave the game due to changes they don't like would be less severe than the constant tick of people getting upset that they lost all their items because they died once. It's just like perma-death. If you make that much progress and you keep on losing after making that kinda progress you aren't gonna want to play the game that much. And I see that as the downfall of any game. But that's my opinion.

Hanatar · 27th July 2008, 12:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unomat

Full loot shouldn't even be questioned. Then again, looting shouldn't be without risks either ^^

So if a crafter really put his soul into a specific item, it'd seem only natural the person looting that item becomes the target of a pretty nasty curse

After all, (s)he SHOULD have known better than to expect full looting without risks...

I definitely agree with that,may be players can go to a Sorcerer and ask him to Jinx the lootable item and once got jinxed for lets say 24 hours the other players will be able to see an aura following you and no one will want to team with you

Possible side effects
a.Become blind during a fight
b.Slip while fighting
c.Memory loss(spell bars fade away)
d.Party suffers of same effect randomly

Gorblum · 27th July 2008, 13:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by seniorfrito

I don't know if I really like the idea of being able to loot someone completely or even at all upon death. I mean think of it this way, I'm a casual gamer and if I don't have the same skill as someone else who just wants to sit in a newbie zone and prawn all day, I'm just going to keep dieing. Does it make for a more realistic game? Of course, but I think that the number of people that would leave the game due to changes they don't like would be less severe than the constant tick of people getting upset that they lost all their items because they died once. It's just like perma-death. If you make that much progress and you keep on losing after making that kinda progress you aren't gonna want to play the game that much. And I see that as the downfall of any game. But that's my opinion.

I know what you mean on this , not everyone is a hardcore player to feel they would want to continue in a game that has full loot. You will see a difference that there are casual and hardcore players. But really what does the devs want as well . I believe full loot would definatley appeal to hardcore players that will like the adrenaline rush as well as the risks involved between winning and losing all their gear. However this I believe for people wanting to continue a pay to play MMO will limit the amount to those wanting to play. Unless its never going to be about the gear of how one is to feel very powerful in the end but just the fun of the game mechanics itself from Player vs Player in combat as well as sieges and Towns battling it out.
If its not full loot I can say that this game would be more friendlier to casual gamers that just want to pick up and play and yet after sometime spent on skilling up a character and having fun can go back to work and return knowing they still have a good game and laugh playing against others in the pvp .

What my other concern is if its full loot then will that mean those involved only get to loot, or can everyone loot even for example player A take on B and C , Player A kills player C and well the body is there to be looted but he still needs to fight this other guy. Somehow some random guy Player D comes in , does that mean he can fully loot the dead Player C? That wouldnt be fair or Player D decides to watch them fight and then once one is dead and the winner is weakened . Player D kills the winner A or B and snatches the full loot in the end ? Now that wouldnt be exactly good if Full loot was implemented.

rick · 27th July 2008, 13:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by seniorfrito

I don't know if I really like the idea of being able to loot someone completely or even at all upon death. I mean think of it this way, I'm a casual gamer and if I don't have the same skill as someone else who just wants to sit in a newbie zone and prawn all day, I'm just going to keep dieing. Does it make for a more realistic game? Of course, but I think that the number of people that would leave the game due to changes they don't like would be less severe than the constant tick of people getting upset that they lost all their items because they died once. It's just like perma-death. If you make that much progress and you keep on losing after making that kinda progress you aren't gonna want to play the game that much. And I see that as the downfall of any game. But that's my opinion.

the thing about mortal and it's full loot system is that equipment and items don't matter as much as in other mmos. if you get looted in mortal, it won't be some devastating event that sends you back to square one. you simply get some gold out of your bank and go buy some more gear from a crafter. this isn't a gear-centric game meaning that acceptable gear is very easy to obtain. you won't be playing for weeks in order to get some epic piece of gear. you won't even want to wear all of your better gear around casually because people will try to take it from you. it's a skill-based game meaning if you're a competent fighter, you will be able to win a fight with a crappy sword and rags vs. a guy in expensive equipment. and if you really don't want to get looted, that's all the more incentive to team up and interact with other players for protection.

rick · 27th July 2008, 13:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gorblum

If its not full loot I can say that this game would be more friendlier to casual gamers that just want to pick up and play and yet after sometime spent on skilling up a character and having fun can go back to work and return knowing they still have a good game and laugh playing against others in the pvp .

i disagree. i believe a full-loot game is even more friendly to a casual gamer than a non-loot game and i'll tell you why. in a full-loot game, gear is far less important. a casual gamer can easily get acceptable gear and go right into battle with veteran players. in a non-loot game, players spends weeks getting epic gear and the newbies can't jump into the battle and hope to compete without spending weeks and weeks grinding to get the same level gear as the veteran players.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gorblum

What my other concern is if its full loot then will that mean those involved only get to loot, or can everyone loot even for example player A take on B and C , Player A kills player C and well the body is there to be looted but he still needs to fight this other guy. Somehow some random guy Player D comes in , does that mean he can fully loot the dead Player C? That wouldnt be fair or Player D decides to watch them fight and then once one is dead and the winner is weakened . Player D kills the winner A or B and snatches the full loot in the end ? Now that wouldnt be exactly good if Full loot was implemented.

that just makes it all the more fun. killing someone and thinking you're about to rummage through his stuff when another player jumps out, kills you, and stakes the claim. it's a dog eat dog world in mortal. you're really not entitled to anything unless you survive to take it.

Monsterod · 27th July 2008, 22:02

The only fair I am looking for is class balance.

Shinzon · 27th July 2008, 22:23

There have been already massive threads about full-loot with +9999 Crits for full loot. The first thing you have to realize is that gear in full loot becomes less important. Because you can loose equipment at any moment; the cheap mass produced crafter armor suddenly becomes a viable option, since it is cheap and can be easily replaced. Factor in the promised "Skill" based combat and the disadvantage of inferior gear dissapears slightly.

Since the mass produced crafter armor is in demand, crafters are in demand; you actually want to make goods to trade; instead of grinding something totally un-needed; much like in WoW. This puts a demand on raw materials, which means miners and explorers now have a clear role they can fill naturally.

As a result on the exodus from cities and into the wilderness looking for raw materials players band together into guilds, clans and villages, which try to protect their respective resource, this pushes players into conflict with each other, and creates a rich political landscape based of something concrete. Which in turn colors every player's experience.

For casual players this creates monolithic organizations that are a source of both protection and immediate danger; creating a fast game play with a rich environment avalbale to them if they wish to get involved.

jhughesy · 28th July 2008, 13:49

/signed for full looting and immersion

Oh, and carebears are needed in towns to build us that sweet new armour. Please don't discount the value of those types of player.

jhughesy · 28th July 2008, 13:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monsterod

The only fair I am looking for is class balance.

There are classes in this game? Yuuuuk....

Neek · 28th July 2008, 14:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhughesy

There are classes in this game? Yuuuuk....

Classes in the loosest sense of the word. You will not have restrictions as to what you may become.

l0kkinen · 30th July 2008, 08:50

What about veteran players killing newbies for easy cash? I think there should be a "lvl" restriction to full looting, meaning a player with maxed out primary skills won't get any loot from complete newbie. If not implemented, this will result in serious trouble when it comes to getting new players to join in.

Sleeping with the fishes · 30th July 2008, 09:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by l0kkinen

What about veteran players killing newbies for easy cash? I think there should be a "lvl" restriction to full looting, meaning a player with maxed out primary skills won't get any loot from complete newbie. If not implemented, this will result in serious trouble when it comes to getting new players to join in.

Newbie areas could be guarded by powerful NPC's.
The killing of lots of noobies could come with a bounty or some other shameful tag.
Newbies don't really have that much on them to loot anyways.
Newbies might just be skilled enough players to actually pose a threat to a veteran
I would help the doobies if some "veteran" started harassing them and it would be a bloody mess. And then I would "corpse camp" the "veterans" and "gank" them and then "gank" them some more

Unomat · 30th July 2008, 10:02

Well, if a new player continues to walk around with all his stuff strapped on his back instead of putting it in the bank, he's practically begging to get robbed, isn't it?

Praxeas · 30th July 2008, 15:49

In my opinion, the only thing that would be better than full loot, is if the items of the killed player has a chance of being destroyed on death. So let's say, out of 10 pieces of kit (armor, weapons, shield etc.), maybe 5-6 pieces becomes lootable for the killing player, the rest is removed from the game. This would decrease the average lifespan of equipment in the game, and give the carebear crafters (god bless their hardworking souls) even more work to do, and more profit to make.

Sandbox MMOs are dependant of harsh game mechanics like decay and total loss at death. It is the reason why they will never have 1 or 10 million subscribers, but it is also the reason why they are the most interesting games, and why people keep playing them year after year without getting fed up.

Neek · 30th July 2008, 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by l0kkinen

What about veteran players killing newbies for easy cash? I think there should be a "lvl" restriction to full looting, meaning a player with maxed out primary skills won't get any loot from complete newbie. If not implemented, this will result in serious trouble when it comes to getting new players to join in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeping with the fishes

Newbie areas could be guarded by powerful NPC's.
The killing of lots of noobies could come with a bounty or some other shameful tag.
Newbies don't really have that much on them to loot anyways.
Newbies might just be skilled enough players to actually pose a threat to a veteran
I would help the doobies if some "veteran" started harassing them and it would be a bloody mess. And then I would "corpse camp" the "veterans" and "gank" them and then "gank" them some more

Adding to what Sleeping said, MO is the type of game where either a.) a low lvl can dmg and or kill a high lvl player if they grasp the learning curve and b.) a few low lvls can band together and with any amount of competence, easily beat the crap out of the "veteran."

I envision a visceral bloody corpse fest when I log on for the first time. Unlike many other games in the beginning, I want to spend a good amount of time killing players because that's where the fun resides.

The moment you walk outside the city, shit hits the fan. The unknown should be dangerous and full of risk prompting you to find some friends real quick to survive unless you can stealth effectively. Players taking the often traveled road need to pay for their naivety.

This will be a game that requires quick situational awareness and those who rest on their laurels rather than adapt will quit because they wrote a check their ass can't cash.

Shinzon · 31st July 2008, 18:14

Quote:

Adding to what Sleeping said, MO is the type of game where either a.) a low lvl can dmg and or kill a high lvl player if they grasp the learning curve and b.) a few low lvls can band together and with any amount of competence, easily beat the crap out of the "veteran."

I envision a visceral bloody corpse fest when I log on for the first time. Unlike many other games in the beginning, I want to spend a good amount of time killing players because that's where the fun resides.

The moment you walk outside the city, shit hits the fan. The unknown should be dangerous and full of risk prompting you to find some friends real quick to survive unless you can stealth effectively. Players taking the often traveled road need to pay for their naivety.

Amen to that. This sounds like a game which allow the players to make their own stories and conflicts instead of being forces into a two sided and meangingless conflict. I want Empires and Guilds to rise and fall...

1reaver1 · 1st August 2008, 01:23

just a ramdom thought for the hard core poeple. Do we want FULL loot when we get killed? Seriously, if you are uber geared due to raids over months of time and someone comes and jumps you wihle finding a grouped mob, should they be able to clean you out to get the gear?

just a thought. I can see people going nuclear over this.

rick · 1st August 2008, 01:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1reaver1

just a ramdom thought for the hard core poeple. Do we want FULL loot when we get killed? Seriously, if you are uber geared due to raids over months of time and someone comes and jumps you wihle finding a grouped mob, should they be able to clean you out to get the gear?

just a thought. I can see people going nuclear over this.

there isn't going to be uber gear and raids over months.

ccoa · 1st August 2008, 02:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick

there isn't going to be uber gear and raids over months.

rick is right!

Shinzon · 1st August 2008, 03:18

Full loot drives the economy creating a dependancy on cheap crafted armor, creating an actual use for player crafting. To me there should be absolutley no NPC sold items (Or just the very bare basics) the whole server should essentialy start out running with loincloths and sticks. As crafters get more experienced and numerous people will run around in leather; then in plate; and in this way you can tell the age of the server by what "Average" armor is provided. Older servers will have more intricate and complex armors; while new servers will be running around in lioncloths...

Lachrymose · 1st August 2008, 03:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1reaver1

just a ramdom thought for the hard core poeple. Do we want FULL loot when we get killed? Seriously, if you are uber geared due to raids over months of time and someone comes and jumps you wihle finding a grouped mob, should they be able to clean you out to get the gear?

just a thought. I can see people going nuclear over this.

no uber gear. this isn't wow we're talking about.

Lachrymose · 1st August 2008, 03:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shinzon

Full loot drives the economy creating a dependancy on cheap crafted armor, creating an actual use for player crafting. To me there should be absolutley no NPC sold items (Or just the very bare basics) the whole server should essentialy start out running with loincloths and sticks. As crafters get more experienced and numerous people will run around in leather; then in plate; and in this way you can tell the age of the server by what "Average" armor is provided. Older servers will have more intricate and complex armors; while new servers will be running around in lioncloths...

i'm sure decent armor will be buyable off npc vendors, but the best stuff will come from player crafters.

either way, it's not that gear doesn't matter (although there is no ultra uber gear), it's just that the best gear won't be that much better than the very good gear, and the very good gear will be relatively easy to come by. maybe a little pricey, but everyone will generally have access to some good gear.

Evasia · 1st August 2008, 10:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traceur

hmm, we've covered that - everyone already is fully lootable

no need to start a "full loot campaign" - take down the signpost, disbend the march- we won this war

we also get FFA btw

So if we won war on full loot and also FFA game was first intended to be a pve game and like alot of other games if its a pve game, and they implement pvp later on many times games like this have failed when core is build around pve.

Is this game a core pvp game or pve?, with pvp implemented along the development?

27th July 2008, 22:02	#48 (permalink)
Monsterod Newbie Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 4 Rep Power: 0	The only fair I am looking for is class balance. __________________ "Never try, you either do it or don't waste my time" - Phil Monsterod VonHugenstien Malaena Blackblade Chasey Lain, Baileys, GoldenGod Cyrin, Malani, Ciryn many, many more..... Fearless Leader : Live Action Role Play Brotherhood of Immortals Mad Mercs http://www.gameslave.net

27th July 2008, 22:23	#49 (permalink)
Shinzon Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Toronto, Ontario Age: 19 Posts: 937 Rep Power: 3	There have been already massive threads about full-loot with +9999 Crits for full loot. The first thing you have to realize is that gear in full loot becomes less important. Because you can loose equipment at any moment; the cheap mass produced crafter armor suddenly becomes a viable option, since it is cheap and can be easily replaced. Factor in the promised "Skill" based combat and the disadvantage of inferior gear dissapears slightly. Since the mass produced crafter armor is in demand, crafters are in demand; you actually want to make goods to trade; instead of grinding something totally un-needed; much like in WoW. This puts a demand on raw materials, which means miners and explorers now have a clear role they can fill naturally. As a result on the exodus from cities and into the wilderness looking for raw materials players band together into guilds, clans and villages, which try to protect their respective resource, this pushes players into conflict with each other, and creates a rich political landscape based of something concrete. Which in turn colors every player's experience. For casual players this creates monolithic organizations that are a source of both protection and immediate danger; creating a fast game play with a rich environment avalbale to them if they wish to get involved. __________________ www.aegis-imperium.com

30th July 2008, 10:02	#55 (permalink)
Unomat Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Delft, The Netherlands Age: 38 Posts: 241 Rep Power: 1	Well, if a new player continues to walk around with all his stuff strapped on his back instead of putting it in the bank, he's practically begging to get robbed, isn't it? __________________ Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. - Douglas Adams

1st August 2008, 03:18	#62 (permalink)
Shinzon Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Toronto, Ontario Age: 19 Posts: 937 Rep Power: 3	Full loot drives the economy creating a dependancy on cheap crafted armor, creating an actual use for player crafting. To me there should be absolutley no NPC sold items (Or just the very bare basics) the whole server should essentialy start out running with loincloths and sticks. As crafters get more experienced and numerous people will run around in leather; then in plate; and in this way you can tell the age of the server by what "Average" armor is provided. Older servers will have more intricate and complex armors; while new servers will be running around in lioncloths... __________________ www.aegis-imperium.com

27th July 2008, 12:06	#43 (permalink)
seniorfrito Newbie Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 1 Rep Power: 0	I don't know if I really like the idea of being able to loot someone completely or even at all upon death. I mean think of it this way, I'm a casual gamer and if I don't have the same skill as someone else who just wants to sit in a newbie zone and prawn all day, I'm just going to keep dieing. Does it make for a more realistic game? Of course, but I think that the number of people that would leave the game due to changes they don't like would be less severe than the constant tick of people getting upset that they lost all their items because they died once. It's just like perma-death. If you make that much progress and you keep on losing after making that kinda progress you aren't gonna want to play the game that much. And I see that as the downfall of any game. But that's my opinion.

28th July 2008, 13:49	#50 (permalink)
jhughesy Newbie Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 6 Rep Power: 0	/signed for full looting and immersion Oh, and carebears are needed in towns to build us that sweet new armour. Please don't discount the value of those types of player.

30th July 2008, 08:50	#53 (permalink)
l0kkinen Junior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Finland Age: 19 Posts: 96 Rep Power: 1	What about veteran players killing newbies for easy cash? I think there should be a "lvl" restriction to full looting, meaning a player with maxed out primary skills won't get any loot from complete newbie. If not implemented, this will result in serious trouble when it comes to getting new players to join in.

30th July 2008, 15:49	#56 (permalink)
Praxeas Newbie Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 8 Rep Power: 0	In my opinion, the only thing that would be better than full loot, is if the items of the killed player has a chance of being destroyed on death. So let's say, out of 10 pieces of kit (armor, weapons, shield etc.), maybe 5-6 pieces becomes lootable for the killing player, the rest is removed from the game. This would decrease the average lifespan of equipment in the game, and give the carebear crafters (god bless their hardworking souls) even more work to do, and more profit to make. Sandbox MMOs are dependant of harsh game mechanics like decay and total loss at death. It is the reason why they will never have 1 or 10 million subscribers, but it is also the reason why they are the most interesting games, and why people keep playing them year after year without getting fed up.

1st August 2008, 01:23	#59 (permalink)
1reaver1 Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Age: 38 Posts: 116 Rep Power: 0	just a ramdom thought for the hard core poeple. Do we want FULL loot when we get killed? Seriously, if you are uber geared due to raids over months of time and someone comes and jumps you wihle finding a grouped mob, should they be able to clean you out to get the gear? just a thought. I can see people going nuclear over this.