Lore - What I would like to see.

Wraith · 30th May 2008, 17:40

I understand the need for basic Lore in every MMORPG to set the mood so to speak.

But I would really like to actually experience the lore in game. What do I mean by this. Lets say a legendary hero aspires to be a god, or some evil deity takes over a certain territory that is invaded with undead and is forever scorched by their presence. I want it to happen in game, and then see the stories written about it. I want to hear from other players about "Did you hear what happened today?" or "I was in this area when this Hero defeated that bad guy..." So many of these games write lore for you to read. I don't want to read about it. I want to hear about it word of mouth or read peoples story about what has happened or happening on the forums or be lucky enough to be there to see it happen.

If I wanted to read a book, I wouldn't be playing a game.

Traceur · 30th May 2008, 17:57

i actually like when in single player RP/adventure games you start to find notes & pieces and read different versions & different personal takes of stuff.. it's a different experience then reading a book, it's not all laid out to you, you get it in pieces and you connect them in your head.
a game's lore can have the sort of conflicting "historical records" and versions which a book can't always pull off, because in a game you explore it yourself, and not chronologically by a specific order...

that's being said, in a sandbox game lore is mythology & history. what goes on right now is done by the players - the politics, the great conflicts, the tales of heroism, the gossips, that is lore derived out of player actions, which some players will want to write down (historians where even described as an example in the Q&A), and may have it's own conflicting versions.

Vanndal · 30th May 2008, 18:26

It will definitely be extreme harder for player built lore to occur in game, since there needs to be reporters and players who distinguish themselves among their guild for the act of "whatever" deed. Since most players depend on their team and everything, it would take a very substantial leader to actually make the team give praise to that player, but even then it'll be a short fame between the few and not something reported globally since the deed of course it not always exalted or vile.

Unless you want to start a newspaper guild, I don't see player built lore a highly possible possibility unfortunately

. You could try though... I bet it is possible just no one has a solid idea on how to make it possible yet.

Wraith · 30th May 2008, 18:35

I'm not looking for player lore per say.

I just want what ever lore that is going to be for the game to actually happen in the game.

Traceur · 30th May 2008, 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanndal

It will definitely be extreme harder for player built lore to occur in game, since there needs to be reporters and players who distinguish themselves among their guild for the act of "whatever" deed. Since most players depend on their team and everything, it would take a very substantial leader to actually make the team give praise to that player, but even then it'll be a short fame between the few and not something reported globally since the deed of course it not always exalted or vile.

there's no such thing as objective historical accounts - and that will make it much more interesting IMO:

you'll be able to read different stories from different guilds, different takes of the same war, of the same event, of the same diplomatic issue. players who don't affiliate with either may go on reading these and try to get a big picture from the different pieces & versions, and try to figure out what really happened.

if things are just laid out with nothing to figure out, then the lore stops being a game

Aiten · 30th May 2008, 19:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wraith

But I would really like to actually experience the lore in game.

To add another layer to this. Visions. A way to experience major events of the past. You go to a library, and the on-call wizard (for a small fee of course), will let you experience that event as if you were there, through a vision/illusion.

Of course, that mean you have to use instancing (don't even pretend you can have your own vision in the open world), but it could be a way to experience the history of the game, first hand. It may let you play as different classes, people in that vision, for example playing an bodyguard for the King over 300 years before, during a battle that goes terribly wrong. Would also have to be scripted, but I don't think such a feature could hurt MO in anyway other than give more activities for players to do over the years.

(added dev time doesn't count as hurting, since new content can be added post-launch.)

Traceur · 30th May 2008, 19:24

won you too it

but I'll give you 2 euros to resurrect it - one now and the second sometime after.

Aiten · 30th May 2008, 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traceur

won you too it

but I'll give you 2 euros to resurrect it - one now and the second sometime after.

Damn you!!! I thought I was original with that idea!!

The Last Spartan · 30th May 2008, 22:39

I'd like to see Player written Lore that may be better than the standard NPC written books.

So Traceur's Book of Mage may be better than the standard Book of Mage because he's travelled further, so in theory it can help the Economy and encourage other players to write their stories/knowledge down and maybe have it sold in an NPC/Player Book shop?

Traceur · 31st May 2008, 09:50

you know, i actually tried publishing my own stuff in RL (stupid publishers), so it would be rather fun to do it in game, even if it has to be in English

yes, I'd go for that

The Last Spartan · 31st May 2008, 15:18

Who says it has to be in English? It could be in the language of your race.

Traceur · 31st May 2008, 15:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Last Spartan

Who says it has to be in English? It could be in the language of your race.

i have to admit i never learned a lore-language of any game/movie/book i ever played/seeing/read... unless you consider the symbols from a Myst puzzle

i invented one for a GM campaign but i couldn't remember it (one of my players learned it half-by-heart though

)....

but hey, there's a first time for everything.

The Last Spartan · 31st May 2008, 16:42

Well it seems you'll need to learn other languages to play with other races. Unless there is a Universal language. But it'd be nice to say "Up yours" in Elvish, then go "Greetings friend!" in the Universal language.

Traceur · 31st May 2008, 16:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Last Spartan

Well it seems you'll need to learn other languages to play with other races. Unless there is a Universal language. But it'd be nice to say "Up yours" in Elvish, then go "Greetings friend!" in the Universal language.

well a language beerier doesn't mean you have to actually learn other languages: since in the placeholder character sheet from the skills & attributes review we saw a list of languages your character knows, i think it's going to mean you can only read/talk with characters who know the same language as you.

i like the idea of having to use the invented languages for some PvE content (like decrypting ancients text or speaking to religious entities), and maybe even for magic... but not for general chat.

admiralnlson · 31st May 2008, 19:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aiten

Damn you!!! I thought I was original with that idea!!

It's actually been done before.

Guild Wars provided that in their mission bonus pack. You could play as 4 previous heroes and retrace some of their adventures. Was done by using a book.

It was only solo mode, though.

Traceur · 31st May 2008, 20:46

didn't play GW - but it's still not entirely original on my part either - after too many years of playing myst jumping into places through books just makes sense to you

don't try that at home though

Faidor · 9th July 2008, 07:09

I love this idea and I know it could be done. EVE online is an example of it happening...single players building up warfleets too take on an entire federation...yeah, it can happen.

What needs to happen is that there needs to be less NPCs and more player involvement. The economy needs to be run by the players, the quests could possibly be given by players if they have built enough reputation and status/money to do so.

I agree with you, I want to see it happen as well.

Jonkar · 9th July 2008, 07:18

I would love it if Starvault would hire GM's for the sole purpose of recording a server's happenings and adapting the lore.

OMGPIE · 10th July 2008, 01:56

Paper with stories is ok but only at a limit. I am just hoping that there is a very interesting story-line and it is something that is shown and not ruined in the game.

egonboy · 12th July 2008, 08:32

Once again, player written books makes this a lot easier. And makes a newspaper guild possible. And speaking of newspaper and in town npc paper would be interesting even if it only mentioned what flowers were in season and who's cat got eaten by an orc.

30th May 2008, 17:40	#1 (permalink)
Wraith Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 24 Rep Power: 1	Lore - What I would like to see. I understand the need for basic Lore in every MMORPG to set the mood so to speak. But I would really like to actually experience the lore in game. What do I mean by this. Lets say a legendary hero aspires to be a god, or some evil deity takes over a certain territory that is invaded with undead and is forever scorched by their presence. I want it to happen in game, and then see the stories written about it. I want to hear from other players about "Did you hear what happened today?" or "I was in this area when this Hero defeated that bad guy..." So many of these games write lore for you to read. I don't want to read about it. I want to hear about it word of mouth or read peoples story about what has happened or happening on the forums or be lucky enough to be there to see it happen. If I wanted to read a book, I wouldn't be playing a game.

30th May 2008, 17:57	#2 (permalink)
Traceur Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 2,587 Rep Power: 8	i actually like when in single player RP/adventure games you start to find notes & pieces and read different versions & different personal takes of stuff.. it's a different experience then reading a book, it's not all laid out to you, you get it in pieces and you connect them in your head. a game's lore can have the sort of conflicting "historical records" and versions which a book can't always pull off, because in a game you explore it yourself, and not chronologically by a specific order... that's being said, in a sandbox game lore is mythology & history. what goes on right now is done by the players - the politics, the great conflicts, the tales of heroism, the gossips, that is lore derived out of player actions, which some players will want to write down (historians where even described as an example in the Q&A), and may have it's own conflicting versions. __________________ stop looking at my post count!it's not a habit, it's cool, i feel alive.... welcome to the TBC!

30th May 2008, 19:24	#7 (permalink)
Traceur Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 2,587 Rep Power: 8	won you too it but I'll give you 2 euros to resurrect it - one now and the second sometime after. __________________ stop looking at my post count!it's not a habit, it's cool, i feel alive.... welcome to the TBC!

30th May 2008, 22:39	#9 (permalink)
The Last Spartan Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 551 Rep Power: 2	I'd like to see Player written Lore that may be better than the standard NPC written books. So Traceur's Book of Mage may be better than the standard Book of Mage because he's travelled further, so in theory it can help the Economy and encourage other players to write their stories/knowledge down and maybe have it sold in an NPC/Player Book shop? __________________ My idea of a Magic System. Look for my posts. My idea of a Veteran Reward. Look for my post.

31st May 2008, 09:50	#10 (permalink)
Traceur Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 2,587 Rep Power: 8	you know, i actually tried publishing my own stuff in RL (stupid publishers), so it would be rather fun to do it in game, even if it has to be in English yes, I'd go for that __________________ stop looking at my post count!it's not a habit, it's cool, i feel alive.... welcome to the TBC!

30th May 2008, 18:26	#3 (permalink)
Vanndal Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 161 Rep Power: 1	It will definitely be extreme harder for player built lore to occur in game, since there needs to be reporters and players who distinguish themselves among their guild for the act of "whatever" deed. Since most players depend on their team and everything, it would take a very substantial leader to actually make the team give praise to that player, but even then it'll be a short fame between the few and not something reported globally since the deed of course it not always exalted or vile. Unless you want to start a newspaper guild, I don't see player built lore a highly possible possibility unfortunately . You could try though... I bet it is possible just no one has a solid idea on how to make it possible yet.

30th May 2008, 18:35	#4 (permalink)
Wraith Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 24 Rep Power: 1	I'm not looking for player lore per say. I just want what ever lore that is going to be for the game to actually happen in the game.

31st May 2008, 15:18	#11 (permalink)
The Last Spartan Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 551 Rep Power: 2	Who says it has to be in English? It could be in the language of your race. __________________ My idea of a Magic System. Look for my posts. My idea of a Veteran Reward. Look for my post.

31st May 2008, 16:42	#13 (permalink)
The Last Spartan Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 551 Rep Power: 2	Well it seems you'll need to learn other languages to play with other races. Unless there is a Universal language. But it'd be nice to say "Up yours" in Elvish, then go "Greetings friend!" in the Universal language. __________________ My idea of a Magic System. Look for my posts. My idea of a Veteran Reward. Look for my post.

31st May 2008, 20:46	#16 (permalink)
Traceur Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 2,587 Rep Power: 8	didn't play GW - but it's still not entirely original on my part either - after too many years of playing myst jumping into places through books just makes sense to you don't try that at home though __________________ stop looking at my post count!it's not a habit, it's cool, i feel alive.... welcome to the TBC!

9th July 2008, 07:09	#17 (permalink)
Faidor Newbie Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Oklahoma City Age: 28 Posts: 48 Rep Power: 1	I love this idea and I know it could be done. EVE online is an example of it happening...single players building up warfleets too take on an entire federation...yeah, it can happen. What needs to happen is that there needs to be less NPCs and more player involvement. The economy needs to be run by the players, the quests could possibly be given by players if they have built enough reputation and status/money to do so. I agree with you, I want to see it happen as well. __________________ Is yours an honest lament?...Most are not, you know. Most self-imposed burdens are founded on misperceptions. We - at least we of sincere character - always judge ourselves by stricter standards than we expect others to abide by. It is a curse, I suppose, or a blessing, depending on how one views it...Take it as a blessing, my friend, an inner calling that forces you to strive to unattainable heights.

9th July 2008, 07:18	#18 (permalink)
Jonkar Junior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 63 Rep Power: 1	I would love it if Starvault would hire GM's for the sole purpose of recording a server's happenings and adapting the lore.

10th July 2008, 01:56	#19 (permalink)
OMGPIE Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Omnipresent Posts: 1,504 Rep Power: 4	Paper with stories is ok but only at a limit. I am just hoping that there is a very interesting story-line and it is something that is shown and not ruined in the game. __________________

12th July 2008, 08:32	#20 (permalink)
egonboy Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Bellingham WA USA Posts: 45 Rep Power: 1	Once again, player written books makes this a lot easier. And makes a newspaper guild possible. And speaking of newspaper and in town npc paper would be interesting even if it only mentioned what flowers were in season and who's cat got eaten by an orc.