Player Driven Market?

[Aragoni]

Originally Posted by Nepila

So you can pwn only by being crafter + pvper?

This is how I'd like it to be made:

Crafters could make every kind of items, exept for some items that are dropped from unique monsters. Those unique items would be very hard to get and not many would have those. And then crafters would be able to create items good as those, but not the same items. Like this "dragonlords cutlass" would be good as "Flawless steel cutlass", both would need lots of time to achieve, so you could choose your own way to get good gear on you.
But the crafters would need those "highly" geared pvers help to get to some places so they could get mats for making even stronger items.
Then the pvers could buy those items from crafters then again help the crafters and so on.

And the pvpers could get their good gear by killing the guys who have managed to get those uber items, since those items wouldn't be too overpowered. (if full loot is in ofc)

Huh? Where did I mention that the only possible way to kick ass is to be a crafter + PvPer? the PvP'er can buy the items off the crafter (and I doubt that the one who just got the über Sword of Death would sell it since he wouldn't be wearing the best lewt then) and so can the PvE'er, and thus putting both on equal terms and the crafter will get some money. Player-driven economy ftw.

With letting the PvE'ers get their items from mobs you will make it harder for the player-driven economy to work, and thus making the game more like EQ. Of course, ordinary mobs could drop simple swords and shield but not anything special.

[Nepila]

Originally Posted by Aragoni

Huh? Where did I mention that the only possible way to kick ass is to be a crafter + PvPer? the PvP'er can buy the items off the crafter (and I doubt that the one who just got the über Sword of Death would sell it since he wouldn't be wearing the best lewt then) and so can the PvE'er, and thus putting both on equal terms and the crafter will get some money. Player-driven economy ftw.

With letting the PvE'ers get their items from mobs you will make it harder for the player-driven economy to work, and thus making the game more like EQ. Of course, ordinary mobs could drop simple swords and shield but not anything special.

Where are you going to get the money from to buy items if you are pure PvPer?

Edit:

Originally Posted by Aragoni

But they will STILL have the upper hand in PvP when they've managed to get the gear.

So would the crafters have if only they can get good items.

[Leveller]

Lets just say. Swordsmithing is a skill. With max skillcap at 100.
Also say NPC-vendors sell swords making 5 damage.
And at skill 80 you can make swords with 6 in damage. And beeing maxed out (100) Swordcrafting. Your swords do 7 damage.

That would encourage the people to buy handcrafter swords from other players rather than buying from NPCs. Even if its not much difference in damage, its still worth having the edge in a with with more damage.

Also. Decaysystem should be purely based on usage. Not on death.
A sword beeing in the grass for 5 minutes in a dead persons hand before you pick it up again shouldnt make it less usable.


Anyone with me in this?

[Nepila]

Originally Posted by Leveller

Lets just say. Swordsmithing is a skill. With max skillcap at 100.
Also say NPC-vendors sell swords making 5 damage.
And at skill 80 you can make swords with 6 in damage. And beeing maxed out (100) Swordcrafting. Your swords do 7 damage.

That would encourage the people to buy handcrafter swords from other players rather than buying from NPCs. Even if its not much difference in damage, its still worth having the edge in a with with more damage.

Also. Decaysystem should be purely based on usage. Not on death.
A sword beeing in the grass for 5 minutes in a dead persons hand before you pick it up again shouldnt make it less usable.


Anyone with me in this?

This is how I'd like the crafting to be too.

How about the items that monsters drop?

Sword dropped by monsters should be about same as those that NPC's are selling, maybe even bit better, and then the items dropped by those legendary monsters should be about equal to the items crafted at skill level 80~100, since those items are very hard to get and are unique.

[Aragoni]

Originally Posted by Nepila

Where are you going to get the money from to buy items if you are pure PvPer?

I see three options; 1. He gets into a good guild which will supply him with the goods.
2. He rapes either the crafter or the PvE'er (Money won't give the PvE'er an advantage when it comes to PvP, but an über item would).
3. He does some sweet talkin' with the craftah.

Originally Posted by Nepila

So would the crafters have if only they can get good items.

Never seen this happen in EVE. How could a crafter (or Industrialist in EVE terms.. unless I'm wrong) crush and kill a character that is specced on killing, when he himself only have a blacksmith hammer and maybe a mining pick (he will probably not be able to use the best weapons)?

EVE is, at least to some degree, a perfect example of a good player-driven economy that I hope Mortal Online will try to copy (but transfer it from a sci-fi game to a fantasy). No über loots from PvE, everything is crafted by players and that the guilds will be dependent on a steady income of wares from crafters.

[Leveller]

Originally Posted by Nepila

This is how I'd like the crafting to be too.

How about the items that monsters drop?

Sword dropped by monsters should be about same as those that NPC's are selling, maybe even bit better, and then the items dropped by those legendary monsters should be about equal to the items crafted at skill level 80~100, since those items are very hard to get and are unique.

Mabye monster drops could just look different?
Cause if there is no decay if the sword isnt beeing used it could be nice to just showoff.

And another thing. I remember back in UltimaOnline where GM smiths was HIGHLY respected. There was only like 5 per 1000 ppl on each server. Where you really had to work day and night to become it. And it took very many MONTHS of IRL to get it.

[Nepila]

Originally Posted by Aragoni

I see three options; 1. He gets into a good guild which will supply him with the goods.
2. He rapes either the crafter or the PvE'er (Money won't give the PvE'er an advantage when it comes to PvP, but an über item would).
3. He does some sweet talkin' with the craftah.



Never seen this happen in EVE. How could a crafter (or Industrialist in EVE terms.. unless I'm wrong) crush and kill a character that is specced on killing, when he himself only have a blacksmith hammer and maybe a mining pick (he will probably not be able to use the best weapons)?

EVE is, at least to some degree, a perfect example of a good player-driven economy that I hope Mortal Online will try to copy (but transfer it from a sci-fi game to a fantasy). No über loots from PvE, everything is crafted by players and that the guilds will be dependent on a steady income of wares from crafters.

Hire somebody to protect your arse :P Or craft uber items and keep those with you.

And if monsters would drop good items too wouldn't ruin player run economy since only those unique monsters would drop those items as I have already said earlier.

I hope there aren't any level restrictions to use items, "you are too low level to use this sword" WTF?

I've never played EVE so I don't have any idea how its like at there.

[Nepila]

Originally Posted by Leveller

Mabye monster drops could just look different?
Cause if there is no decay if the sword isnt beeing used it could be nice to just showoff.

About how I said it "dragonlords cutlass" dropped by legendary monster would be good as "Flawless steel cutlass" crafted by very skilled crafter.
The first item would look much cooler of course.

[Brandulfr]

Originally Posted by Nepila

About how I said it "dragonlords cutlass" dropped by legendary monster would be good as "Flawless steel cutlass" crafted by very skilled crafter.
The first item would look much cooler of course.

I am still of the idea that crafters should be able to make all items in game. Removes the whole, I got this uber weapon from this uber dragon. Now, as you said, if you can craft one equal to it...then maybe I could live with it.

[Indah]

Player crafted items should be the best items in the game. Make the crafters have the upper hand.

[Nepila]

Originally Posted by Indah

Player crafted items should be the best items in the game. Make the crafters have the upper hand.

Crafters would still have the upper hand even if you could get items equal to the best items made by crafting from some monsters if only these monsters would drop those.

"Is your goal to face a legendary monster? Well, that is usually suicide – if you can find one. But if your guild would actually manage to kill one, it’s dead. Gone. Rare monsters and quests do not resurrect or come again, whether it’s an ancient beast, a crumbling temple, an island rising out of the sea or a great ritual that fails or succeeds. You might get away with an item never seen before, or the unique scar that tells about the experience. There are not many of these opportunities but they are usually important enough to affect the whole world and its history. All you have to do is be at the right place at the right time."

[mutantmagnet]

Originally Posted by Aragoni

No über loots from PvE, everything is crafted by players and that the guilds will be dependent on a steady income of wares from crafters.

Then you never played Eve. There are officer/pirate modules that blow away anything a player can craft with Tech 2 blue prints.

For example a tech II webifier cuts your speed by 90% has something like a 30 cpu fit and an optimal range of 10kilometers.
Dracula webifiers have a range of 35 KM and a fitting of 21 cpu and reduce your speed by 75% IIRC.

Still even with the existence of high end gear that can be gained through pve noone has a problem with them because as uber as they are ships with those mods can still die.

[Wolfheart]

Originally Posted by mutantmagnet

Then you never played Eve. There are officer/pirate modules that blow away anything a player can craft with Tech 2 blue prints.

For example a tech II webifier cuts your speed by 90% has something like a 30 cpu fit and an optimal range of 10kilometers.
Dracula webifiers have a range of 35 KM and a fitting of 21 cpu and reduce your speed by 75% IIRC.

Still even with the existence of high end gear that can be gained through pve noone has a problem with them because as uber as they are ships with those mods can still die.

The items you talk about (faction/officer gear) are so rare NO ONE are using them in pvp without getting laughed at by the whole EVE community when they die.
Maybe you can see a faction mod here and there but its pretty rare.

The usable items are constructed by players and players only. (tech 2 stuff)

Every ship that blows up during a normal fleet fight between two alliances, and thats usually hundreds of ships getting blown up, are made by players. As well as 95% of the equipment since Tech II stuff is "standard" fleet equip these days and are NOT dropped by NPCs.

[Metal Wolf]

Power to the people!

[Cruroar]

A PVP market would cater better to the current player base versus an NPC market. Mainly because I want to go full-crafting.

[Nepila]

Originally Posted by Cruroar

A PVP market would cater better to the current player base as NPC markets. Mainly because I want to go full-crafting.

Could you post that in less proper english?
I got no idea what this means "A PVP market would cater better to the current player base as NPC markets."

[Jusik]

Purely player driven markets. Once the game gets going people could setup npc vendors to sell their stuff but all important items are gathered or created by players. It makes crafters and gatherers all the more valuable.

[Cruroar]

Originally Posted by Jusik

Purely player driven markets. Once the game gets going people could setup npc vendors to sell their stuff but all important items are gathered or created by players. It makes crafters and gatherers all the more valuable.

As long as it doesn't take 6 months to make a full set of very good armor. Oh EVE Online and your skill training and crafting system :P

[thor]

I had to pick the middle choice. I don't think you should be able to buy extremely good items off of NPC's but. . .

If an item is sold by an NPC players should be able to make it.

Great items should come from drops and crafting.

Sometimes and item isn't cost/time effective to make so having an NPC sell it is good.

Having players buy items from NPC's does remove money from the system, which is needed to maintain an economy.

[cheddot]

Player-driven economy ALL THE WAY. NPC's only there for noob equipment so we have a springboard.

[Brandulfr]

Originally Posted by cheddot

Player-driven economy ALL THE WAY. NPC's only there for noob equipment so we have a springboard.

It is refreshing to know not everyone is brainwashed.

[Leveller]

Also, if crafters isnt beeing "lifted up" No one will make them as primary chars. Everyone will just make warriors to kill monster to earn their living.

So true that NPC-equipment should be a springboard only.

[Nepila]

You guys just don't get what I've been trying to say, if there is a legendary monster that takes lots of work to kill, whole guild, and drops ONE good item, wtf can it do to your player run economy? So if you get one good item from monster crafters are useless, huh? wtf with that.... Even you could make good items as those by crafting.
Come on, let the ppl have their own choices, if everything is made by crafting its boring, grind for money, buy items, grind more, buy items and so on to achieve what? Nothing, since there is no reason to do anything else than PvP with those items.

[bama50]

Not being a crafter, I still prefer a player driven economy. It seems to actually create a feeling of being a part of a community rather than going it alone.

[sj0ver]

I hope for player driven markets in every mmo I play. I know economy is one of the hardest things to balance, as inflation is always very high.

I want the best items in the world, to be crafted, rather than dropped by X end game boss. Also making consumables highly needed, and making item decay, along with full PvP looting, is something that will drive a player made economy forward. I reckon Star Vault is headed in the right direction here.

[BoldarBlood]

Player driven economy.