Magic and how to cast it.

[patamon]

i have a idea how it coud easy works with the magic "language".
you shoud have something like a position for skill but usualy free laces. for starting lets say just 3 of them than you coud have more depending on your skill. and you woud hawe magickal words instead on your screen in a form o a normal skill bar. you woud have to drag this words in a corect order to the free positions and so to combinate them and to create a spel..for example draging fire + bolt + explode....woud create a exploding fire bolt..or wind + blow+ ice..woud create a blizard...but if you drag blow+ ice + wind
..it woud do nothing or perhaps a less efectiv or other spell.

..after you woud lvl up you could learn more powerfull words to usem ore powerfull magic.
and you coul make your mages in 2 ways - first learn wery powerfull magic words and have a few free places to drag that words in to, so you woud cast more quickly m spels because of shorter lore....but it woud be more simple spells mosty against one target.
and the second way - you coul oncentrate not to learn the most powrefull words but to skill up more free space for them to drag in to them, so you woud may use more complicated spells with mostly area efekts and wery powerfull spells against enemy, but the draging and even repeating of the lore woud by longer and the casting woud take more time.

or you will choos the middle way and combinate the averange strong words with a averange log lores, because of a normal amount of free draging space.

[Thalras Naeblis]

That sounds really cool I like it.

[Sorjak]

@Catmorbid:

... You're like my brain twin right now. My very first thread on these forums was about exactly that. A magic system that used actual typing as the skill of it. It got shot down pretty quick though, since people used macros and the hatred of mages having to stand still to cast their spells as cons that overwhelmed the goodness of the system.

I still dream of it though. Something where, with every letter that you typed, your character would draw in flaming letters in front of him. Or icy letters, or letters of smoke. And yes, writing the wrong letter could result in spell failure, or a weaker version of the spell, or even an explosion! So many good things could come from it. I agree, though, that people would eventually find a way to break that system... macros are too prevalent and easy to create. Which is why i'm now behind the symbol drawing system.

@Last Spartan

You caught me My second favorite book of all time.

[catmorbid]

Originally Posted by Sorjak

@Catmorbid:

... You're like my brain twin right now. My very first thread on these forums was about exactly that. A magic system that used actual typing as the skill of it. It got shot down pretty quick though, since people used macros and the hatred of mages having to stand still to cast their spells as cons that overwhelmed the goodness of the system.

I still dream of it though. Something where, with every letter that you typed, your character would draw in flaming letters in front of him. Or icy letters, or letters of smoke. And yes, writing the wrong letter could result in spell failure, or a weaker version of the spell, or even an explosion! So many good things could come from it. I agree, though, that people would eventually find a way to break that system... macros are too prevalent and easy to create. Which is why i'm now behind the symbol drawing system.

=D

Well you're probably right about the abuse thing with using macros and stuff, but who's to say it'd be impossible to add macro-proof protection to it? Anti-cheat systems i'm afraid are essential in today's mmo's.

Symbol drawing would be cool too, but I'd really like to see the spell-typing, just because, at least in my head it feels pretty unique. And you're absolutely right, there would be many many good things about such a system. Though it would take a handful of brilliant minds to put together and complex enough yet simple to approach syntax for the language

[Fortinbras]

Originally Posted by Veith

I think i posted something similar in another thread.
What i dont like in 'modern' magic is really the fact its only a compensation for missing bazookas and bombs.
And so im thinking more and more fantasy should not content any more such effects.... no bombs, no missiles. For me its clear why in Mount and Blade such magic is not implemented because it would destroy all tactical combatgameplay for 'mount and blade' combat, and magic 'limited' would be anyway only boring.
The fact folks like playing mages because sorcerers are two-leg-ed rocketlaunchers is for me a sad aspect for computerfantasygames. Its to common, now more common than swordfighting. Its modern warfare with curious, gaudy outfit.

Agreeing with this post right here. I'd like to see magic be a bit more, well, magical and to that end I think its applications should be limited to things that can't be accomplished through normal means. Transporting you across continents in an instant, altering the weather, inscribing runes of power on swords and restoring the dead to life - all perfectly valid, interesting applications of magic. No more fps wizards throwing fireballs around, please, not when there's perfectly good bows out there.

[patamon]

i think that tipingwoud be realy hard and not very user freandly mostly for the newbes. not everyone can write fast or write without looking on the kaybord. for exaple mi woud be dead befor i woud kill anyone becase i am not good in tiping....just do not tipe the spells...plz.

[Sorjak]

Originally Posted by patamon

i think that tipingwoud be realy hard and not very user freandly mostly for the newbes. not everyone can write fast or write without looking on the kaybord. for exaple mi woud be dead befor i woud kill anyone becase i am not good in tiping....just do not tipe the spells...plz.

Not to be mean or anything, but that's pretty much exactly the point. Typing is already something that some people are better at than others, and it is something that can easily be improved with patience and time. Through it, a noob can annihilate a veteran provided the noob has very sharp typing skills, and the veteran is lacking in them. It's a system meant to be punishing at first, but getting better and more familiar with it will bring about greatness, which is the holy grail for a magic system.

[iannetti67]

Originally Posted by patamon

i think that tipingwoud be realy hard and not very user freandly mostly for the newbes. not everyone can write fast or write without looking on the kaybord. for exaple mi woud be dead befor i woud kill anyone becase i am not good in tiping....just do not tipe the spells...plz.

And maybe not everyone can accurately aim with a mouse, does that mean ranged fighters should have auto-aim? No.
MO is a skill based game. Aiming is a skill. Typing is a skill. You get better as time goes on. Playing MMOs as a kid improved my typing skills, which in turn made school assignments easier. So I'm sure players who aren't that good at typing will get better over time, which is the point of playing a skill game.

[crypt]

Who would want to type to cast spells? That sound soo oldschool.

As I said in the previous thread, I really like the idea of 'drawing' spells, but there still had to be some instant cast spells and spells, that can be bound to staffs. Otherwise that caster-class might become TOO slow for some player.

[Sorjak]

Let it! Why does magic have to be easy? Why does it really need to be accessible?

How many fantasy books that take magic seriously have you read where just anyone can perform magic, without even a hint of hard work and a thirst for knowledge?

My answer to that is none. All mages i've seen are dedicated, studious people who sacrifice everything but magic in order to master even the simplest of spells.

[stygiant]

Originally Posted by The Last Spartan

Why shouldn't we be able to move when we cast spells? Archers can move when they fire an arrow, Meleers can move when they attack, why can't Mages?

And I don't like the idea of having to make movements, since the chance of backfiring or getting it wrong makes the Mage class overly complicated.

Also, why can't we block or or attack when we're casting a spell? Can't we run at someone and cast it, closing the gap between us, therefore making the spell hit sooner.

this is how I feel about it.

the trick with magic is just to keep its dmg in line with other dmg dealers, not to punish the player because magic tends to be something a little easier to use.

also, mages don't necessarily need to be dmg dealer classes - they can be utility classes and such.

[Sheltar]

Here's my opinion from "Casters vs Melee" thread

Originally Posted by Sheltar

Well think about something like that :

1. You choose a spell (in YOUR memory, not from your character's skill deck ...)
2. You draw a gesture on your screen
3. The spell is now on "ignition state" (It is not momentally casted, but if this is fireball for example, let's say a pretty ball of fire starts hovering above your hand ready to be released)
4. Now You can aim your enemy and fire a spell by one click.

It is something like reloading your gun. Sure, you can run arround with your nuke prepared and ready to fire, BUT if you want to fire it again it means "reloading it" by some gesture in the middle of combat. Quite demanding task if you ask me, adding a new dimension to importance of player skill (If you want to be a real "battle mage" you will need cool head, good memory, and great skill in operating your mouse, not only quick retargeting your enemies while bashing your F1-F12 like most nukers in recent MMOS do).

Some people say it will be too difficult. Well, basic spells for sure will be easy enough to remember and "draw", but if you need a bigger gun you'd better think about preparing it BEFORE you engage in fight. And keep in mind that when you fire it once, it IS NOT SUPPOSED to be easy to spam such thing at will. If your in the middle of the fight with a full plate guy charging ur face you can always choose weaker but more reliable ways of hurting your opponent. OR try something more demanding depending on your skill AS PLAYER. Of course it is your own risk to take, since if you mess something up u'd propably end up chopped to pieces That's how I see BALANCE in this game.

P.S.I don't want to see balancing casters by artifficially "slowing" their projectiles like many MMOS do in order to make avoiding being hit easier. It takes away a lot of fun and dynamism of combat when you see homing in "slow motion" missiles like in Matrix.... Same thing with arrows. If a projectile is aimed well it should not be supposed to be dodged easily. There are other ways of balancing ranged classes.

I see many people like the "gesture" and "drawing" idea. For sure it could revolutionize the MMO scene, the thing is to balance it fair enough reffering to other classes.

Don't be afraid it could be too complicated. Like many stated before, I don't think simple cross for a fireball could make the class THAT hard to play

But if you want master something more than basics ... Well ... Then it should demand from player more skill than few moves of a mouse.

I think THAT is the basic purpose of this game right??

Idea of typing spells is useless IMHO. Yes, it brings good memories, but doesn't referr to player skill at all. Macro's (even if not implemented directly in game, there are plenty of programs you can run together with any game launched) would make it just another F1-F12 bashing fest ....

[catmorbid]

Originally Posted by crypt

Who would want to type to cast spells? That sound soo oldschool.

As I said in the previous thread, I really like the idea of 'drawing' spells, but there still had to be some instant cast spells and spells, that can be bound to staffs. Otherwise that caster-class might become TOO slow for some player.

Agreed, it is a bit oldschool, but I think that's one of the biggest charms of such a system Actually having different symbols drawn in specific order versus having spell words you need to type in specific order would actually not have that big of a difference, in essence.

[Mouse Sidurien]

Typing in is a bit oldie but you know its all a matter of how spells certain spells are cast. Perhaps some spells require speaking where other require only a flick of the wrist. A combination of the 2 would be the most likely method of casting and most wanted.

[1reaver1]

I'd be really interested to see something like the OP mentioned. What would be interesting would be allow traditional spell casting but also add some variety that increased damage, if you pulled if off without it blowing up in ou face,
i.e.
left click on the spell you are trying to cast.

left click again on additional spells you want to cast on top of it at the same time.

keep layering as you see fit.

When you are ready to cast, hit the right button or some other mouse key.

They may not stack all damage, but could increase damage in unique ways depending on what you layer.

STack to much.....BOOM

Pull it off....rewarded with some nice damage or damage and layered effects

[patamon]

guys.ust stop dreaming abouth tipping spells on the keyboard....it is not possible to do it i a game like mortal online..because:

youcoud not use the wholw keyboard while you are using a part ofit to move beause you are i a FP look so the spells coud not use at least the keys WASD and pehaps more keys

when you woud hawe to use a special butto to go to the writing mode you coud not move beauseyou could not use the keys WASD and that is wath nobody want

and even when you would yust have to ai a mous on a pint and then write so you would have to write yust with one hand.

so plz yut thing abouth the real using of things you write and try to get tothe game before trying to protekt the ideas.

[catmorbid]

Originally Posted by patamon

guys.ust stop dreaming abouth tipping spells on the keyboard....it is not possible to do it i a game like mortal online..because:

youcoud not use the wholw keyboard while you are using a part ofit to move beause you are i a FP look so the spells coud not use at least the keys WASD and pehaps more keys

when you woud hawe to use a special butto to go to the writing mode you coud not move beauseyou could not use the keys WASD and that is wath nobody want

and even when you would yust have to ai a mous on a pint and then write so you would have to write yust with one hand.

so plz yut thing abouth the real using of things you write and try to get tothe game before trying to protekt the ideas.

How about if you could use the arrow keys to move while in "spelltyping"-mode? It would give some moveability. However, I must say that one of the major features in a "spelltyping" type of spellcasting would be the weak spot the caster's put in while casting spells, being unable to properly move or defend themselves.

Essentially, spelltyping would represent the casting time of spells you see in current games, which simulates the caster's need to concentrate on what (s)he's doing. Except that the casting time wouldn't be fixed, but depending on you, the player.

In contrast, magic could be made more powerful and greater in overall. It might also encourage people to increase their typing skills: instead of just writing bad and slow, kids would learn to write fast and correct - think of the educational benefits!

Indeed, one would be utterly blind not to see how great a system it'd be!

[The Last Spartan]

Magic spells would either have to be: Much more powerful, even a fireball spell since you are drawing it while the rangers/meleers can attack easier.

So you have to either: Make melee and range as difficult as Magic or you have to make Magic much more powerful.

[The Last Spartan]

Also the game is going to be rated Mature so there won't be any children on it legally.

[Sorjak]

I'm all for making magic ridiculously powerful to make up for us mages not being able to move as we're typing. It makes a lot of sense to me that a mage can't be running around the map and casting spells, unless those spells have been written in a scroll or otherwise prepared beforehand (another cool extension of the typing magic system, btw).

Think about it. You're hurling a ball of freaking fire at someone. How could it do anything but massive amounts of damage? How can an arrow or a sword come even close? You're tampering with the force of nature itself, unleashing its destructive force upon a relatively fragile humanoid being. It really doesn't make any sense for it to NOT be incredibly powerful.

[Sinneh]

All of you who like typing casting... A big NO.
This is one of the worst systems to play. First of all It can be cheated over easily with lots of programs and makes handicaped person like a guy who lost a finger unable to type as fast as a guy with all fingers for example... SO A BIG NO <-- It had to be capsed.
Mages should have elements and combining them makes a good fireball like wind and fire... or blizzard water with cold wind and so on. And a fireball for example should burn the robes but it shouldnt be effective against heavy armors... while blizzard pierces the heavy armor... So basicly if a mage uses the right skill at the right time... its strong as hell but other wise its not.

Another thing.
Mage can build their casting, power or concentration. With building concentration mages will be able to move while casting So if you need better concentration to be able to think cast and say the spells name and be able to talk while doing it.
I like this idea very much.

Oh and another thing... If mage moves less his casting speed is faster That affects it and balances it well too.

[catmorbid]

Originally Posted by Sinneh

All of you who like typing casting... A big NO.
This is one of the worst systems to play. First of all It can be cheated over easily with lots of programs and makes handicaped person like a guy who lost a finger unable to type as fast as a guy with all fingers for example... SO A BIG NO <-- It had to be capsed.
Mages should have elements and combining them makes a good fireball like wind and fire... or blizzard water with cold wind and so on. And a fireball for example should burn the robes but it shouldnt be effective against heavy armors... while blizzard pierces the heavy armor... So basicly if a mage uses the right skill at the right time... its strong as hell but other wise its not.

Another thing.
Mage can build their casting, power or concentration. With building concentration mages will be able to move while casting So if you need better concentration to be able to think cast and say the spells name and be able to talk while doing it.
I like this idea very much.

Oh and another thing... If mage moves less his casting speed is faster That affects it and balances it well too.

Yeah, you're absolutely right about it being unfair to people with disabilities. That's why it should be an optional feature Oh, well. I'll stop here now, I guess there isn't anything more for me to say on the issue

[crypt]

Originally Posted by Sorjak

I'm all for making magic ridiculously powerful to make up for us mages not being able to move as we're typing. It makes a lot of sense to me that a mage can't be running around the map and casting spells, unless those spells have been written in a scroll or otherwise prepared beforehand (another cool extension of the typing magic system, btw).

Now that's something I could imagine.. a small minigame has to be solved to create a new scroll, in which, for example, you have to type a certain thing... needs further thinking

[The Last Spartan]

Originally Posted by Sorjak

I'm all for making magic ridiculously powerful to make up for us mages not being able to move as we're typing. It makes a lot of sense to me that a mage can't be running around the map and casting spells, unless those spells have been written in a scroll or otherwise prepared beforehand (another cool extension of the typing magic system, btw).

Think about it. You're hurling a ball of freaking fire at someone. How could it do anything but massive amounts of damage? How can an arrow or a sword come even close? You're tampering with the force of nature itself, unleashing its destructive force upon a relatively fragile humanoid being. It really doesn't make any sense for it to NOT be incredibly powerful.

I can see it now.

A warrior's running around in solid gold armour (like the one of the trailer) and an arrow breaks on impact, not even denting it.

"Haha! This golden armour protects me from those flimsy arrows! I have-" Ball of fire burns him to a crisp. The mage was standing behind him..

XD

[patamon]

i thing that the powerfull spells are no way to compense the other thing...we just discused it at the nucer poll topick...

..and onece more..if you want to move with arow keys while casting you have yust one hand to write and that is why you will never learn right writning in that way, and it will be dificult mostly for new players....and that is wath count..have fun even when you are no profes