Why classes?

[Backstabber]

Ive read over the skill system that is planed for Mortal and it looks good, but I have to ask, why the classes? It seems that in a game like this, player freedom has to be one of the most important aspects. Yet, you are planing on implementing something that is very restrictive on players: Classes. And you plan on doing this by making players join guilds so they can complete their skill trees. Why would anyone want to do this? Havent classes been done to death already?

I asked this qestion in the general discussion and someone said for the lore. Well, shouldnt it be the players choice if they want to take part in the lore or not? Alot of players want a game where they can break free from any sort of set path and strike out on their own, making their own destiny, their own lore, if you will.

Why not just let players have their skills set up anyway they want with the only restriction being they can only have a set number of skills? Why not have set up so it all depends on how much time and effort a player puts into their characters skills that determines whether or not they get access to the top, elite, skills in their skill trees? A course of action like that is far more logical and player accomodating than forcing any kind of class restrictions.

[Necromantic]

And again, there are no classes like most think.
Those are just templates for starter skills and hopefully its not you have to choose one, but rather you are able to choose one.
There are no restrictional things to it after that.
AFAIK of course.

Did you really read through all the skill system info?

The others pretty much said that in your Thread, too.

Hrm oh, I'm not supposed to answer here, I'm sorry.

[rick]

Originally Posted by Backstabber

Yet, you are planing on implementing something that is very restrictive on players: Classes. And you plan on doing this by making players join guilds so they can complete their skill trees. Why would anyone want to do this?

where did the devs say that being in a class completes the skill tree?

here's a quote from mats:

In MO, you start with a skill-set, changeable at any time, you are never forbidden to train any skill as long as you meet the prerequisites, you choose whether or not to apply for a class title, which may or may not affect skills or abilities depending on the class, and that will disappear the moment you do not meet the prerequisites or decide to "exit" the class by training other skills or apply for another class.

So yes, we have classes. However, I hope you can see the difference between our classes (title/work/recognition) and, let's say traditional D&D-classes where the class is really all that you are when it comes to characteristics, abilities and skills.s.

[Traceur]

so this is like the 400th proof that we need to find an alternative term for classes...

ok i'm going to try & do something about it.

[Lyllyth]

Originally Posted by Traceur

so this is like the 400th proof that we need to find an alternative term for classes...

ok i'm going to try & do something about it.

I think it more proves the lack of reading comprehension rampant in today's society. Which would lead into more of a Social/Educational/Parenting debate, not befitting this particular thread.

[Traceur]

well something needs to be done... and here's a start.

[Lyllyth]

Originally Posted by Traceur

well something needs to be done...

Anti-stupid bleach in the gene pool.

More seriously, why lower the bar to accommodate the stupid?

[Traceur]

Originally Posted by Lyllyth

Anti-stupid bleach in the gene pool.

More seriously, why lower the bar to accommodate the stupid?

they are stupid assuming that a word that means one thing in every game out there has the same meaning here, or for not reading every piece of info on the game before dismissing it / joining the community & posting?

[Lyllyth]

Originally Posted by Traceur

they are stupid assuming that a word that means one thing in every game out there has the same meaning here,

Not every game, just most.

Originally Posted by Traceur

or for not reading every piece of info on the game before dismissing it /

The feature list is small, I don't find it too much to ask, to have them read a bit of the feature list prior to posting that this or that should or should not be.

Originally Posted by Traceur

joining the community & posting?

Of that, we are all guilty.

Common sense may not be all that common, but let's not perpetuation that situation.

[Traceur]

so when you browse for new MMORPGs out there, you read every last bit of info before dismissing it and moving on? i don't think most people are that thorough, i know i'm not.

[Thalras Naeblis]

Originally Posted by Backstabber

Ive read over the skill system that is planed for Mortal and it looks good, but I have to ask, why the classes? It seems that in a game like this, player freedom has to be one of the most important aspects. Yet, you are planing on implementing something that is very restrictive on players: Classes. And you plan on doing this by making players join guilds so they can complete their skill trees. Why would anyone want to do this? Havent classes been done to death already?

I asked this qestion in the general discussion and someone said for the lore. Well, shouldnt it be the players choice if they want to take part in the lore or not? Alot of players want a game where they can break free from any sort of set path and strike out on their own, making their own destiny, their own lore, if you will.

Why not just let players have their skills set up anyway they want with the only restriction being they can only have a set number of skills? Why not have set up so it all depends on how much time and effort a player puts into their characters skills that determines whether or not they get access to the top, elite, skills in their skill trees? A course of action like that is far more logical and player accomodating than forcing any kind of class restrictions.

There are no classes and you can do any skills you want, but of course you cannot learn all the skills, because I believe there is a limit. But I know for sure that they are not forcing any kind of class restrictions.

[Lyllyth]

Originally Posted by Traceur

so when you browse for new MMORPGs out there, you read every last bit of info before dismissing it and moving on?

People that register and post are a bit beyond "dismissing it and moving on". However, I personally try to read the entire features list before making a decision. Unless I read something that definitively steps away from my ideal game. However, I don't, at that point, register for their forums and slam the Features listed for the game.

Each Development team is designing their own game, you'll either play it or not, in the case of MO, it seems as if the Devs are taking suggestions. But don't take that to mean that they have to follow your suggestions or else. (that was a generalized statement, not directed at anyone in particular) So coming to the forums and complaining about a listed feature, without having read completely about that feature, is rather asinine.

On these forums, Ideas are being tossed around and suggestions being made, I'm a rather opinionated person and will freely share and debate my opinions. I try not to let a debate turn into an argument, but then, I'm only human. =)

[Traceur]

i see what your saying about those who come in & post & yes i do use them to make my point, but i'm more concerned about the hardcore sandbox crowd who might not take another look after reading the word "classes" - we are loosing the better people because of this confusion IMO.

that & i get a nausea whenever i explain something 2 dozen times, regardless if it's another anti-class advocate or someone calling for balanced classes... also the reason why i could never make it as a teacher

[Lyllyth]

Originally Posted by Traceur

i see what your saying about those who come in & post & yes i do use them to make my point, but i'm more concerned about the hardcore sandbox crowd who might not take another look after reading the word "classes" - we are loosing the better people because of this confusion IMO.

Ahh, but are they the "better people" if they are too impatient to read a little further? =)

[Traceur]

Originally Posted by Lyllyth

Ahh, but are they the "better people" if they are too impatient to read a little further? =)

yep, they are, their called idealist. often the people who possess an extremist vision will dismiss impatiently anything that doesn't seem to fit their ideals, and the same rule applies to sandbox idealists, the extreme immersionists, the roleplayers, the artsy fartsy of creative juice flow & the most cut-throat inteligent logicans....

patiance alone doesn't seperate the good from the "stupid" posters... it seperates those willing to compromise from the extremist, and while for a political convention that might make for a good filter, as far as we've seeing this is a game for the extremist - the 'hardcore' - why should it distance them?

[SkirmCard]

I think it might be better if they just used a different word than "class"....anyone have a Thesaurus?

[Sorjak]

@Traceur

I agree that a filter against the stupid could easily be used against these extreme idealists, but I don't believe that this is the case for MO.

This game has so many qualities that would greatly appeal to an extreme idealist that merely the mention of the word "class" wouldn't, I believe, immediately make them ditch the very notion of registering. They would probably continue reading to try to find something that negates classes, or register and complain about it.

[Traceur]

i don't know, i just don't like the idea of using a confusion in a presentation to "filter out" people...

now if we where talking about added puzzle games for the registration process, count me in

[ganuska]

At The Risk Of Being Flamed!-and Yelled At For My Choice Of Caps!-i Would Like To Add Or Comment That Setting A Limit To Number Of Skills Removes Choice.-if A Player Is Willing To Do The Time And Make The Prereqs. For A Skill They Should B Allowed To Have Sjill.--in The Real World We R Not Limited To How Much We Can No-only By How Agressive And Skilled We R At The Learning.-and As Far As Calling It A Skill-"a Tomatoe By Any Other Name Is Still A Tomatoe".-and On The Topic Of "stupid" People-remember That The Games And Forums Have Alot Of Young Children In Them-whether Right Or Wrong They R There-and Sometime They Don't Understand How Things R Worded-iv Meet Players As Young As 8yrs Old In Middle Of Games And Forums Trying To Understand-so To Me There R No "stupid"-just Uninformed Or Limited In Comprehension

[Lonesin]

Well setting a limit to the number of skills creates choices and distinguishes characters. You have to make choices because you cant have everything, but it allows you to create you're character how you want you too with out forcing you down any certain path. Also if everyone could get everything after a year of playing you would see all these characters that are maxed out and exactly the same.

The only system I know of like that is Runescape, but this can work for Runescape because it relies on HEAVY monotonous grinding to reach the max level (99) in just one skill. There is no skill in the game, or thinking. You're level just reflects how much you have played. I dont think Mortal Online is taking that approach, but kind of the opposite instead.