Fighting the impossible

[Faidor]

Let us say that you can use nets to trip people.
Now let us say you are attacked by a super high level and you (a lower level) throw your net in a desperate attempt to flee.
Should it still be able to trip him up?
YES.
If you set a higher level on fire, does he still burn?
HE BETTER.
If you spend hours developing a skill, should higher levels be immune?
NO I SAY!
What I am saying is that higher levels should have a higher chance to dodge/resist/evade—or whatever, but to make them completely immune is just not right. When the highest leveled character is God, no one cares about anything a game has to offer by that point. It becomes just another level as fast as you can get the best armor game. Again I say, being the highest level shouldn’t necessarily make you the absolute best.

[Mogar]

Originally Posted by Faidor

Let us say that you can use nets to trip people.
Now let us say you are attacked by a super high level and you (a lower level) throw your net in a desperate attempt to flee.
Should it still be able to trip him up?
YES.
If you set a higher level on fire, does he still burn?
HE BETTER.
If you spend hours developing a skill, should higher levels be immune?
NO I SAY!
What I am saying is that higher levels should have a higher chance to dodge/resist/evade—or whatever, but to make them completely immune is just not right. When the highest leveled character is God, no one cares about anything a game has to offer by that point. It becomes just another level as fast as you can get the best armor game. Again I say, being the highest level shouldn’t necessarily make you the absolute best.

/signed

[Mukan]

One of the game's main selling points IS "skill-based."

[OMGPIE]

Let me tell you a secret...there's a thing called mortalonline.com where if you look on the left there is features and overview and >>skills & attributes<< and it will show u answers to these.

[Laihei]

If I remember correctly... this game is based on skill and not on level. Sure having more attributes and skills than the other guy teeters the scale to your advantage, but being a better player might help more than hitting someone for 20 damage simply because you are "lower level".

[Tickle]

Originally Posted by Mukan

One of the game's main selling points IS "skill-based."

The same applied to Guild Wars, and look how that turned out.

[Jonkar]

Faidor, get out of the WOW-mindset first before posting again. You seem to believe everything is about levels and numbers.

[OMGPIE]

Originally Posted by Jonkar

Faidor, get out of the WOW-mindset first before posting again. You seem to believe everything is about levels and numbers.

Lol be nice Jonkar he didn't read the FAQ or anything so he doesn't know what MO is about. If he still did this after looking through all the info then we could pick on him a little.

[Jonkar]

Originally Posted by OMGPIE

Lol be nice Jonkar he didn't read the FAQ or anything so he doesn't know what MO is about. If he still did this after looking through all the info then we could pick on him a little.

I am being nice :P

You should send him to Forumfall and see what happens

[OMGPIE]

Lol I plan on never going to Forumfall. You know the first time I saw someone say Darkfall I thought they said Darkfail and it cracked me up I thought they were bashing it but they weren't.

[Mukan]

Originally Posted by Tickle

The same applied to Guild Wars, and look how that turned out.

Haha. I never played Guild Wars, so I wouldn't really know.

[stygiant]

I WOULD agree with you if there were actually lvls in the game


and what happened with GW?

[yXXe]

Except the fact that the game will not include player levels at all, I totally agree with you.

[Heliopios]

Originally Posted by stygiant

and what happened with GW?

It started sucking after a week and has never stopped to breathe out.

[stygiant]

Originally Posted by Heliopios

It started sucking after a week and has never stopped to breathe out.

why so? I play it every now and then and it's pretty entertaining.

[Goatishfiend]

It certainly isn't level-based, beyond a certain point. Playing the game to capture skills (or earn in pvp) gives me in short order nearly the same builds and playing field as anyone else. Afterwards its just skill. Well, really it's the overall skill of the team and practice playing together . . .

On the other hand something sucked because I haven't played in a year.

[Tickle]

Originally Posted by Goatishfiend

It certainly isn't level-based, beyond a certain point. Playing the game to capture skills (or earn in pvp) gives me in short order nearly the same builds and playing field as anyone else. Afterwards its just skill.

You're right, it isn't level-based, it's skill-based. Unfortunately this was a play on words more than anything, you need to be UAX to remain competitive (UAX was beta-slang for having everything (skills, weapon mods, runes) unlocked). The game was supposed to be about recognising the kind of team build you would be facing and then making a counter-build, based on the current meta-game. By making us unlock absolutely everything, they pretty much ruined their own PvP.

Granted, once you have everything unlocked and can ergo run any build, it does get pretty fun. The months it takes to unlock, though, are hell.

[Unomat]

Mmm, I beg to differ. I picked up on GW about 3 months ago after being burned out on both WoW and Tabula Rasa. I'm taking the game slowly, don't have more than 2 PvE characters (lvl 16 and 20, in that order) and 4 PvP.

After 2 weeks of playing PvE I went into Alliance Battles with my PvP Ele, used the first weekend to add an odd 15 players who were able to communicate intelligently in phrases comprised of more 5 words to my friends list (and only 1 to ignore for being extremely obnoxious). From there on out I've only grouped with those players, occasionally picking up a fourth if and when necessary and keeping my friend list up-to-date when needed. The game's been a pleasure ever since.

Granted, I'm unable to compete at the highest echelons of PvP nor would my friends and me stand a chance in TA or HA but truth be told, I don't aspire to that. IF that's your goal, you'll need to unlock enough skills to counter the FotM build and once they find a way around that, you'll need to unlock more skills. However GW is designed in such a way it IS feasible to unlock those skills for your PvP characters by solely devoting your time to PvP. The game promotes strategic and tactical thinking and I really like that

So by playing the part of the game you like best, you can reach the goals you intend to. I don't see major flaws in that design to be honest, it's a lot better than the run-of-the-mill level- and gear-based MMOs that are spreading like wildfire...

[Lyllyth]

@Unomat,
Love the quotes you have in your sig. =)

Originally Posted by Faidor

Again I say, being the highest level shouldn’t necessarily make you the absolute best.

Well, let's assume you acknowledge that the only "levels" in this game are "Skill-Levels"... If I manage to achieve the highest skill-level in a given skill, then why shouldn't my character be the best at that skill?

I know, I'm slightly off point but oh well. =)

[Goatishfiend]

From the answers posts from the devs, it looks like the system is that player skill (overusing word, ability to play the game) will have the highest impact on effectiveness, while character skills (numeric identifier to represent expertise in gameworld activities) and items have a lesser role. Seems more like a richer, fleshed-out Exteel, where fps tactics are mixed with rpg elements creating a hybrid.

[Tickle]

Originally Posted by Unomat

After 2 weeks of playing PvE I went into Alliance Battles with my PvP Ele

Heh, I was talking about real PvP.

[Unomat]

Tickle, imho real PvP involves using tactics and strategy and by that definition AB definitely qualifies. Pray tell, where do you draw the line between real PvP and... whatever you consider the rest to be?

[Excelsior]

Did anyone play Ultima Online Long ago before it was item based?

[Faidor]

I read everything on the Mortal Online site that there was to read. I apologize for not wording it correctly. I meant a higher skilled player, not level...It's not just the WoW concept that I have fallen victim too, its every MMORPG thats out there.

Levels was a word that was poorly used. You have my apologies.

My point being was that longer playing characters shouldn't be able to appear and stomp everything in sight.

That is all.

With that said, I forgive you all for losing your tempers with me.

[Unomat]

I think your prayers have been answered by the devs putting emphasis on player skill as opposed to 'character' skill, Faidor. That being said, a character that has trained certain skills for a long time should have an advantage, otherwise playing the game at all becomes pointless pretty fast imho.

[zachrates]

You're under a false pretense as well. You're assuming there will be a skill to dodge/resist. As far as I know dodging is based purely on player skill and base stats for how fast you move.

[Neek]

Originally Posted by Unomat

I think your prayers have been answered by the devs putting emphasis on player skill as opposed to 'character' skill, Faidor. That being said, a character that has trained certain skills for a long time should have an advantage, otherwise playing the game at all becomes pointless pretty fast imho.

There of course should be an advantage, what I like on the other hand is that if someone ebayed an account, smiling from ear to ear about how he's going to poon some nubs, only to find that even if he's high in skills, he will still get beat down cause he has no idea what he's doing.

I believe in a moderate learning curve to the game's pvp mechanics such that it isn't super difficult, but one's who get it can put the beat down on those who don't post haste. Since PvP is going to determine MO's success it simply must be fun, challenging, and rewarding.