The limits of crafting?

The Last Spartan · 11th July 2008, 21:45

Crafting is great on paper, but when you try to implement crafting in a game, where do you stop? Should a player be able to make his own home from a pre designed shape, or should they be able to make into their desired shape?

Should the crafting of instruments allow tweaking to make a new instrument?

And before you say "This should be in Questions and Answers", no, it shouldn't. It's a feature and these are not questions to the Developers (although a Developer may post if they want to

but to the players and where crafting should be limited, if it should be limited?

Kraven · 11th July 2008, 22:04

I would say crafting is supposed to be a wide and explorable thing.

Example of what i mean is, now just to use the house example.

you got 5 different eastern huts, you got 5 different western huts, someone going in the lines of architecture may then think "Hey lets try to mix the styles" and ya get a mix of lets say, Eastern hut 3 and western hut 2, then you get Custom Hut.

Like, weapons, you fought a dark knight who had forged hes weapon himself and you found out how he had forged it, but your using polearms, you in addition is good at making staves, now then you may be able to craft a stave and craft the sword to be a part of the stave to now becoming a kinda polearm with a sword like fighting style, slower but longer reach.

Just examples of how i think it should be possible to explore and do things "your" way.

Shurt · 11th July 2008, 22:10

This is in the wrong forum.

But, anyway here is an idea I had:

http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/1...les-armor.html

egonboy · 11th July 2008, 22:28

I think that crafting in theory should be open ended however there needs to be graphics, and to many different graphics cost money, takes time, and adds more data to the game. So in theory crafting should be open ended. In practice? It probably can't be.

So be happy with as much as we get.

OMGPIE · 11th July 2008, 23:01

Free reign for players in crafting I say! I don't think its too much to let very...very very high level crafters design armor and weapons but idk if that will be very likely considering how hard it would be to implement it smoothly.

egonboy · 11th July 2008, 23:09

The main question is who would create the graphics, the models, and the art of weapons for these people to craft? If its infinite they'd need a huge supply of art.

It'd just be irrational to expect them able to have such a huge supply, and if they did it'd push the game deadline back a few years.

OMGPIE · 11th July 2008, 23:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by egonboy

The main question is who would create the graphics, the models, and the art of weapons for these people to craft? If its infinite they'd need a huge supply of art.

It'd just be irrational to expect them able to have such a huge supply, and if they did it'd push the game deadline back a few years.

True. I think that this would be a hugely fun and awesome idea but just unrealistic for this game right now.

Shurt · 12th July 2008, 08:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by OMGPIE

True. I think that this would be a hugely fun and awesome idea but just unrealistic for this game right now.

Why would it be unrealistic? Is it because we are used to MMOs releasing games that make all players look the same? The premise of the game is an "open and free world". Although unlrealistic at this point as previously stated, I feel unlimited amounts of crafting options would fit perfectly with this game design. If the developers want this game to stand out amongst the other giants, it must distinguish itself from them. Doing this would set them in the right direction

My 2 cents

egonboy · 12th July 2008, 08:50

Name a way for players to generate the graphics and turn them into 3D models, without understanding such programs of 3D studio max, and I'll agree its not unrealistic. I mean if you can submit content you designed on your own and get it implemented great however that would require all crafters to have 600 dollar computing software if they wanted to be awesome too.

Lyllyth · 12th July 2008, 11:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by egonboy

I mean if you can submit content you designed on your own and get it implemented great however that would require all crafters to have 600 dollar computing software if they wanted to be awesome too.

http://www.blender.org/
Free. =)

As for variance... Let's take clothing.
Quality (model)
Material (texture)
Dye (color)
Type (Blouse, Cloak, Dress, Hat, Jerkin, Pants, Robe, Shirt, Skirt, Toga, Vest)
Q*M*D*T=# of variances
Let's say you have 5 Quality models, 20 different materials, 15 different dyes, and just the 11 varied types.
5 * 20 * 15 * 11 = 16,500 different clothes

egonboy · 12th July 2008, 16:53

Oh I'm totally for thousands and stuff like that. I just know design your own unlimited wouldn't exactly be possible. Also I'm pretty sure the dev's are using 3DSMax and thus I figured they wouldn't want any possible errors in porting from software to software.

Brynjolf · 12th July 2008, 18:08

Mmm i think it's not impossible to implement this. Look at Second Life or A Tale In The Desert. Everyting is player-made there(i think). But thats the main feature of these "games". For a MMORPG it would be really nice to have such freedom but it's just too much effort for the fact that it is just one feature among many others.

Also if the players could design their own weapons you would need some guys that control and rubber-stamp each and every player-designed item(just look at Spore. "Oh yeah, finally i've got my giant 2h Penis +1. Turn around and I'll crush you.").

In my opinion it's sufficient to have recipes/blueprints/whatever where you can choose what you want to craft as long as you have a great variety of them perhaps with the option to be free to choose your materials, mix up different materials or ingedients, inscribe runes etc.
Now the big question is how to craft and how to make it fun and challenging and credible, but I'm sure theres already an own Topic on that somewhere around.

Traceur · 14th July 2008, 01:13

the smaller the pieces, the more freedom you have.

predefined houses allow for freedom in location and town layouts only. you could go with predefined rooms, you could go with predefined walls & components, you could go with basic building blocks...

and the smaller it is the more costly it is on the system - we learned that from Mats dev' posts. there's a limited number of objects and you have to make choices. so what level of detail is worth it? where's the line of compromise?

11th July 2008, 21:45	#1 (permalink)
The Last Spartan Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 560 Rep Power: 2	The limits of crafting? Crafting is great on paper, but when you try to implement crafting in a game, where do you stop? Should a player be able to make his own home from a pre designed shape, or should they be able to make into their desired shape? Should the crafting of instruments allow tweaking to make a new instrument? And before you say "This should be in Questions and Answers", no, it shouldn't. It's a feature and these are not questions to the Developers (although a Developer may post if they want to but to the players and where crafting should be limited, if it should be limited? __________________ My idea of a Magic System. Look for my posts. My idea of a Veteran Reward. Look for my post.

11th July 2008, 23:01	#5 (permalink)
OMGPIE Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Omnipresent Posts: 1,506 Rep Power: 4	Free reign for players in crafting I say! I don't think its too much to let very...very very high level crafters design armor and weapons but idk if that will be very likely considering how hard it would be to implement it smoothly. __________________

14th July 2008, 01:13	#13 (permalink)
Traceur Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 2,892 Rep Power: 8	the smaller the pieces, the more freedom you have. predefined houses allow for freedom in location and town layouts only. you could go with predefined rooms, you could go with predefined walls & components, you could go with basic building blocks... and the smaller it is the more costly it is on the system - we learned that from Mats dev' posts. there's a limited number of objects and you have to make choices. so what level of detail is worth it? where's the line of compromise? __________________ stop looking at my post count!it's not a habit, it's cool, i feel alive.... welcome to the TBC!

11th July 2008, 22:04	#2 (permalink)
Kraven Junior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Denmark Posts: 119 Rep Power: 1	I would say crafting is supposed to be a wide and explorable thing. Example of what i mean is, now just to use the house example. you got 5 different eastern huts, you got 5 different western huts, someone going in the lines of architecture may then think "Hey lets try to mix the styles" and ya get a mix of lets say, Eastern hut 3 and western hut 2, then you get Custom Hut. Like, weapons, you fought a dark knight who had forged hes weapon himself and you found out how he had forged it, but your using polearms, you in addition is good at making staves, now then you may be able to craft a stave and craft the sword to be a part of the stave to now becoming a kinda polearm with a sword like fighting style, slower but longer reach. Just examples of how i think it should be possible to explore and do things "your" way.

11th July 2008, 22:28	#4 (permalink)
egonboy Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Bellingham WA USA Posts: 45 Rep Power: 1	I think that crafting in theory should be open ended however there needs to be graphics, and to many different graphics cost money, takes time, and adds more data to the game. So in theory crafting should be open ended. In practice? It probably can't be. So be happy with as much as we get.

11th July 2008, 23:09	#6 (permalink)
egonboy Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Bellingham WA USA Posts: 45 Rep Power: 1	The main question is who would create the graphics, the models, and the art of weapons for these people to craft? If its infinite they'd need a huge supply of art. It'd just be irrational to expect them able to have such a huge supply, and if they did it'd push the game deadline back a few years.

12th July 2008, 08:50	#9 (permalink)
egonboy Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Bellingham WA USA Posts: 45 Rep Power: 1	Name a way for players to generate the graphics and turn them into 3D models, without understanding such programs of 3D studio max, and I'll agree its not unrealistic. I mean if you can submit content you designed on your own and get it implemented great however that would require all crafters to have 600 dollar computing software if they wanted to be awesome too.

12th July 2008, 16:53	#11 (permalink)
egonboy Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Bellingham WA USA Posts: 45 Rep Power: 1	Oh I'm totally for thousands and stuff like that. I just know design your own unlimited wouldn't exactly be possible. Also I'm pretty sure the dev's are using 3DSMax and thus I figured they wouldn't want any possible errors in porting from software to software.

12th July 2008, 18:08	#12 (permalink)
Brynjolf Newbie Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 7 Rep Power: 0	Mmm i think it's not impossible to implement this. Look at Second Life or A Tale In The Desert. Everyting is player-made there(i think). But thats the main feature of these "games". For a MMORPG it would be really nice to have such freedom but it's just too much effort for the fact that it is just one feature among many others. Also if the players could design their own weapons you would need some guys that control and rubber-stamp each and every player-designed item(just look at Spore. "Oh yeah, finally i've got my giant 2h Penis +1. Turn around and I'll crush you."). In my opinion it's sufficient to have recipes/blueprints/whatever where you can choose what you want to craft as long as you have a great variety of them perhaps with the option to be free to choose your materials, mix up different materials or ingedients, inscribe runes etc. Now the big question is how to craft and how to make it fun and challenging and credible, but I'm sure theres already an own Topic on that somewhere around.