Stamina

[Ulti]

Yeah we all know what it stands for. Mostly shown in a bar besides Health and Mana. And we know what happens when you are out of stamina you can't run anymore or use special combat skills, if they required Stamina points.
Now we have MO the next gen, FPV, Full PvP and what not MMO we are all waiting for. What would MO that tries to stay to realism (well asmuch realism can get in a fantasy MMO) and player skill.
I was wondering what stamina could affect in MO.
Some of you might think stamina isn't a big deal just wait abit, let it reload and run again.
So what if stamina would affect the player more than just "you don't have enough stamina to run" or "not enough stamina to use x skill".
for this i was looking at RL what happens when you run out of stamina in RL?
well yea.. you can't run... but depending on how far you pushed yourself your hands and body might start shaking so you couldn't use weapons that accurate anymore (the image could shake instead of your hands idk >.>).
If you go even further you might start seeing things worse kinda like a tunnel vision with the rest blurry out .
And in worst case you might just colapse and are out for some minutes.

Now that we know of the consequences how to restore stamina?
i don't want to see stamina potions in this game just like i don't want mana or health potions. well mana maybe cause it's magic >.> but no health or stamina.

if you get low in stamina you could just take a short break, sitdown somewhere on a little hill get out your hotdog and a fresh cool beer while enjoing the scenery and after you ate up you can start running again.

so in short all my Points

Lost of stamina causes
folowing numbers are pulled out of my ass

50%
- hard breathing (when you hide from something it can hear you if close by)
25%
-Monitor shaking for harder aiming and you can run only slowly now
15%
- you vision gets affected kind of a tunnel vision
5%
- you can only walk slowly or crawl
0%
- you black out

Restoring stamina

- always have some food and drinks with you. even sweets can help since they give alot energy. walking and eating at the same time should be allowed too.

alright thats all i wanted to say concerning stamina. it dosn't has to be that way but atleast make it more than just another bar that needs pots to fill it up.
now i'd like to hear some of your ideas

[BloodofDragons]

well i don't think an idea like this would ever be used in any game muchless an mmo. more so in an PvP game like this it would really suck. you would get in a fight run out of stam and your dead and looted, no thanks. the goal in almost all PvP fight would be whom ever could run the other out of stam first.

i'm not aginst not having potions in a game but why is mana potions any different? all potions are acually considered magical. that is why they are able to heal/revive your stats. also that is why they are instent and use almost no time where as say a heal kit would take atleast some time to use.

[Ulti]

well if you allow potions then it's who runs out of potions first in PvP unless you limit the usage or extend the activating time.

i didn't say you'd have no stamina after 1 fight or after running for 1 min. Maybe you could hold out 10 fights in a row depending on how welltrained you are.
acctually youd always skill your stamina during fighting, runnning, climbing or swimming or other things.
when you maxed your stamina skill out then you can go on and run some marathons or something

[Lyllyth]

Originally Posted by Ulti

well if you allow potions then it's who runs out of potions first in PvP unless you limit the usage or extend the activating time.

Or make potions an "over time" effect rather than an insta-pop.

Let's take a potion that's supposed to heal 360 HP, but it'll work in "ticks", let's say every 5 seconds and the duration is 3 minutes. That would heal 10 HP every 5 seconds.
Also, since potions are supposed to be Alchemy, not Magic (depending on your lore), have an ingestion delay. Say 10-20 seconds for a delay before the potion takes effect.

[Sava]

Realism realism realism, what do you mean after realism ? Do you know weight of simple hauberk ? Do you know how much power it needs to fight good with sword ?
May be shall it be needance in sleep there or in meal ?
Or should i go to bathroom every two hours ?

Realism mustn't damage gameplay. There simple rules in Age of Conan or other games like Severance (blade of darkness). The main rule is that you can not attack forever or with high amount of dmg, run fast and use shield in defensive stance, and i think it's enough in MO.

And haven't you thought about bowers (rangers) or mages , that use light armor and should run faster ?

[Lyllyth]

Originally Posted by Sava

Realism realism realism, what do you mean after realism ? Do you know weight of simple hauberk ? Do you know how much power it needs to fight good with sword ?
May be shall it be needance in sleep there or in meal ?
Or should i go to bathroom every two hours ?

Realism mustn't damage gameplay. There simple rules in Age of Conan or other games like Severance (blade of darkness). The main rule is that you can not attack forever or with high amount of dmg, run fast and use shield in defensive stance, and i think it's enough in MO.

And haven't you thought about bowers (rangers) or mages , that use light armor and should run faster ?

Most of those on these forums (the vocal ones anyways) would like enough Realism to make the game immersive... Though I agree that too much realism will sacrifice Fun, so there has to be a balance. The real question is, where is the line drawn?

There have been a lot of good suggestions on the forums... In the end, it's up to the developers to decide if they even want to use any of the features posted, and if so, which and to what extent.

[Sava]

If developers want to release game in 2009 , they should have already written design document, where all features described.
Do you know how it's hard to make simple classic MMO such as another cuted WoW/ LA2 clone ? How many projects died, trying to do it ? And now you tell me about realism and immersive environment in game that's bulds out of classic MMO canons.
Sorry for my English.

[Lyllyth]

Originally Posted by Sava

If developers want to release game in 2009 , they should have already written design document, where all features described.
Do you know how it's hard to make simple classic MMO such as another cuted WoW/ LA2 clone ? How many projects died, trying to do it ? And now you tell me about realism and immersive environment in game that's bulds out of classic MMO canons.
Sorry for my English.

I assume that the Developers already had a set of features they wanted. However, they also asked for suggestions. We've all been giving them those suggestions. I also assume that if one of our suggestions goes against the Developers' listed features, they will not include it. But take them as they are, suggestions, not demands. =)

As long as you can get your point across, your English is fine. =)

[Mogar]

a world without stamina would be a glorious world indeed, u could run forever..fight forever...and thats how i think it should be. Considering that the fights are skill based on the players abilitys i dont think something like stamina should hold u down. otherwise it would be like a fight for stamina and thats not what i want. Sya your out of stamina and Bang ur dead...great..i just hope there arent any bunny hoppers

[catmorbid]

Originally Posted by BloodofDragons

well i don't think an idea like this would ever be used in any game muchless an mmo. more so in an PvP game like this it would really suck. you would get in a fight run out of stam and your dead and looted, no thanks. the goal in almost all PvP fight would be whom ever could run the other out of stam first.

And how is this different from the goal of whoever runs out of health first?

[BloodofDragons]

Originally Posted by catmorbid

And how is this different from the goal of whoever runs out of health first?

are you kidding? i hope so.

there is a huge difference. if i kill a player with a stam death, the player i'm fighting did all the work for me. i wouldn't have to attack at all untill they are out of stam. i could just play D untill they use up their stam. if i kill someone by reducing their HP to 0 then i did all the work. it was a fare fight in general.

stam deaths as descibed by OP would greatly reduce the skill factor in the game.

as far the potions they are made with alchemy but in most games they are considered a magical effect but not actually being a magical item. i have seen some games have almost a 5 minute cooldown on potions. i'm in no way suggesting there be potions in MO but atleast some kind of healling skill. whether it be with heal kit or bandages or what ever.

if there is no way to heal besides thru magic. the cleric classes will be over powering. i think this happened in vanguard? i forget forsure which mmo that came out in the last couple of years that everyone said clerics were god like. in PVP they could heal so fast and the rest of the classess could only heal with food and very limited in combat. hmmm i think it was vanguard.

[Ulti]

Originally Posted by BloodofDragons

there is a huge difference. if i kill a player with a stam death, the player i'm fighting did all the work for me. i wouldn't have to attack at all untill they are out of stam. i could just play D untill they use up their stam. if i kill someone by reducing their HP to 0 then i did all the work. it was a fare fight in general.

no one would just attack and watch you defend and evade all hits. i think the stamina aspect youd let the player think more about his actions he is about to do.
and as i stated earlier stamina could hold out quite for a long time since we are all well skilled fighting machines
so waiting for someone run out of stamina during a fight would be unlikely if both figher where on 100% at the start of the battle.

[Thalras Naeblis]

Yeah. I would like some sort of stamina system in the game, let's just say you haven't had food or drink for a week in game or something then your stamina will start reducing at a rapid pace, because you are starving. Instead of losing health for not having food or drink for a long time. I don't know if thats a good idea but that would be alright.

[Ulti]

could add some social content too. for example before going on an adventure with your friends you visit the tavern and fill up your stomach while deciding where to go or tactics or other informations, check equipment and other stuff that could help your friend to survive longer out there if they aren't familar with the suroundings or just started the game or anything else you'd want to talk about.

[catmorbid]

Originally Posted by BloodofDragons

are you kidding? i hope so.

there is a huge difference. if i kill a player with a stam death, the player i'm fighting did all the work for me. i wouldn't have to attack at all untill they are out of stam. i could just play D untill they use up their stam. if i kill someone by reducing their HP to 0 then i did all the work. it was a fare fight in general.
vanguard.

No I'm not, I'm afraid. If both cases (attacking person with low health vs. attacking person with low stamina) would have the same end result of the attacked person's death, then it's just the same thing, little or no practical difference. Who cares who did the work for you, the point is, you had very little work to do in first place.

Basically attacking someone with low stamina would be equally as bad behaviour as attacking someone with low health.

Basically what I'm trying to say, is that as long as there is ONE dominating statistic, thats depletion has a fatal consequence, it's all the same, it doesn't matter if you call that statistic health or stamina or Wizzakabuda - even if you had the others as well, the dominating one would be the one that would count.

[Slyther]

I think its a realy great idea, it also could balance out rouges/rangers and assassins because they should be able to move much more rapidly than others. I also think they should have a weight for armor so it slows people down and/or cost more stamina to run. Also the idea of having to breath hard/making noise would be cool so a scared little theif couldn't run and hide right behind you when low on stamina. . . . . sounds cool anyway.

[Ulti]

Originally Posted by Slyther

I think its a realy great idea, it also could balance out rouges/rangers and assassins because they should be able to move much more rapidly than others. I also think they should have a weight for armor so it slows people down and/or cost more stamina to run.

i'm not sure about the rouges/assassins and other light armor users to be able to run faster. that would give disadvantiges to other player who aren't very skilled in fighting yet because they can't even run away from their opponent.

but using up more stamina if you are wearing hevier stuff around would work.
it should count everything in your inventar though not only your armor.
or you could just switch armors and run for a longer amount of time.

you could also implement a dash besides walking and running if somthing realy serious just poped infront of you like the dragon in the trailer
and that would cost even more amount of stamina to use

Stamina could be recovered slowly during walking
would slowly decrease from running but faster than the recover rate on walk and would rapidly go down while sprinting
even during a fight you could slowly restore stamina in between the attacking sequences when you think about your next moves

[Sava]

Originally Posted by Ulti

could add some social content too. for example before going on an adventure with your friends you visit the tavern and fill up your stomach while deciding where to go or tactics or other informations, check equipment and other stuff that could help your friend to survive longer out there if they aren't familar with the suroundings or just started the game or anything else you'd want to talk about.

I have only 1 question , have you ever played MMOs before , and if yes , what it was ?


Stamina is great idea , it was in many games , but there should be no serious debuffes, it will hit mechanics i think. For example , in Severance http://youtube.com/watch?v=JxBaYf8_h6E&feature=related. It would be enough to think over your melee tactics (when stamina is over you need to stay 3 seconds on 1 place and then it restores.

I see no problem with asassins , they need to go to the same distance to you to attack and can be attacked too (asassins have much lighter armor then others).

[Ulti]

Originally Posted by Sava

I have only 1 question , have you ever played MMOs before , and if yes , what it was ?

ugh i don't think i can remember them all. played to many most of them where frer to play. the one i played the most was FFXI for about 4 and ahalf years.

now for stamina debuffs. if there wheren't any debuffs other than not being able to run you could leave out the whole stamina system out wount make any difference. but if there is a stamina system it should have some influence
just like when you are out of health or out of mana.

geting out of stamina should be avoided like getting out of health or mana and it won't be that hard to manage.
maybe you won't even see the debuffs at all in your whole adventure if you just prepare some items and don't go in everywhere rambo style.

for the assassin being able to run faster would ofcourse be only natural but then all other player would fall victims for them if they can't keep up in combat nor run away.
assassins would be the major PK players then "run in kill and if you can't kill run away and try another time" kinda annoyng if you ask me

[Kraven]

I like the idea of stamina in combat, slowly regen when on the defence (Aka not attacking).
This is just some easy thrown out numbers, say ya got 100 stamina points (everyone do, unless they are specialised in melee combat and got the skills to encrease it), then lets say ya regen 10 stamina every 5 second, each normal attack takes 10 stamina, ya can do one attack each second (so in theory in 12 seconds you could run out of stamina, if you go full offence), anyway with a system like that first of all it could give some much more epic fights if its 2 very skilled players, this would make combat alot more about tactic and preserving your stamina/energy, but you cant run completely out of stamina since it do regen slowly.

Advantage of this?
Longer and tougher fights.
More epic fights.
Realism.
More tactical.

Disadvantage of this?
Some would consider it annoying.
It would take longer time for people to learn how to fight.

Something that could be both a disadvantage and a advantage?
Fun, some may consider it more fun and some less.

[Slyther]

I got an idea, assassins should be able to dash (side to side) mabie through a skill or an atribute like dexterity and acrobatics. but leave running speed a more randomly specialized skill called(Dash or sprint)just an idea.

Also when you think about it they couldn't chase you down because they would have to sprint and swing their sword/swords, which should take alot of stamina (thats if you could attack while sprinting)mabie?

Also, it might not be good if the stamina gave to-manny debuffs, but it should have some effect (not to much though). mabie down to the point of harder aiming, so at 40% you breath hard and (i love the breathing idea by the way) 20% your aiming is afected, however i think you should only experince low stamina when the more skilled players duel, or when multibal people fight(longer fights) my thoughts.

[Torgrim]

Originally Posted by Ulti

Lost of stamina causes
folowing numbers are pulled out of my ass

You sir has a mighty ass

[Ulti]

Originally Posted by Torgrim

You sir has a mighty ass

i knew someone would jump on that! D:

another note for assassins. acctualy everyone could dash run faster and do the things since we don't have classes in the old traditional way. so if you skilled your faster running or dashing then everyone else could also but then you would have lower skill in other areas like armor or you can use only lighter weapons something like that.