Night Vs. Day

Neek · 25th July 2008, 20:57

Night should be significant in that when you leave a town, there should be a necessity to bring a light source at night. I'm tired of games will little distinction between the two.

It's a pet peeve of mine ever since these games came out. It's a poor example, but Everquest had something close to right when elves had night vision, yet running around in the dark was still apprehensive.

Danger will take a whole new form when you enter the wilderness and rely on your light source to see what's lurking, raising the bar in terms of tension, and actually make exploring perilous.

Crafters could enter with their own torches that shed more light than the vendor bought ones.

Gamma setting should be capped as to discourage gamers who would crank it up to avoid the problems darkness causes.

Bring back the Night!

ccoa · 25th July 2008, 21:36

Agreed,

Night needs to be dangerous, especially in a game like MO. As for the gamma settings being capped chances are someone will find a way around it. But if you could figure out someway to prevent it that would be awesome.

ketrine · 26th July 2008, 01:29

I won't play a game I cant see.

Lyllyth · 26th July 2008, 03:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by ketrine

I won't play a game I cant see.

Buy a torch/lantern.

Neek · 26th July 2008, 04:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyllyth

Buy a torch/lantern.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ketrine

I won't play a game I cant see.

I know this idea has some that would view it as a turn off. Maybe should've made it into a poll. :3

It's just something I would like a distinction in, yannow, cause the time of day does matter...AoC would've been more gritty if they darkened the game a bit cause, um, it had no difference in day/night, which sucked like a vacuum.

Oddurbergthor · 26th July 2008, 06:00

Sounds like a good idea.

Make it shorten the length for wich you can look forward, (or any other direction) so you cannot see anything 20y away for example, but anything inside that can be seen. Since it could get VERY irritating.

Ulti · 26th July 2008, 12:13

night shouldn't have any lightsources except for the moon(s?) and the torch/latern you bring with you.

so if you go out at night while it's newmoon and without a torch you are screwed!

even if you got a torch the light still wouldn't get you much of a view...
walking alone in a forest while there are all the creepy night sounds and you turn around every few seconds becoming paranoid slowly cause you can't see far enough... only thinking about the trill you could run into makes me feel so excited XD

catmorbid · 27th July 2008, 16:09

Then it should be made possible for you to make fire anywhere and with some time and effort craft makeshift torches to survive through the night. But yeah, I'm all for darker nights. They bring a lot more atmosphere to the game.

Cardinal Harvest · 27th July 2008, 16:37

I agree with OP.
After seeing torches in teaser i guess and hope there will be need of using some sort of lights at night too.

Heliopios · 27th July 2008, 16:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by ketrine

I won't play a game I cant see.

www.worldofwarcraft.com
We're here to speculate on a next-gen MMO, not some child's game.

Back to night, if it was pitch black everywhere that'd not make sense, make forests the truly deadly place to be at night, like in Gothic 1/2. If you were in a forest at night, be prepared to die unless you've got some sort of a torch or magic illumination repel all those big nasties from killing you. But if you were out in a plain, the moon lit up enough that you could walk around fine, unless you didn't want some dark loving creatures to sneak up on you.

Neek · 28th July 2008, 02:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by catmorbid

Then it should be made possible for you to make fire anywhere and with some time and effort craft makeshift torches to survive through the night. But yeah, I'm all for darker nights. They bring a lot more atmosphere to the game.

Totally. Light sources shouldn't be annoying, but rather plentiful for the responsible adventurer.

Towns/villages should provide lantern, candle, torch lights at night so you can navigate the buildings without much effort.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cardinal Harvest

I agree with OP.
After seeing torches in teaser i guess and hope there will be need of using some sort of lights at night too.

I was so devoid of the difference night makes cause of AoC, the teaser is what tipped me about darkerness and the added effect it brings as well.

Jutsin · 28th July 2008, 06:46

I definitely agree with the OP.

Night should have some significant difference to daytime, and should require some kind of illumination to navigate it properly.

Towns would obviously be well-lit, open fields would have near-sufficient lightning from the moon, but forests, caves, dungeons (even during the daytime, unless there's openings to let light in) should really require "manual" illumination. A flaming torch, "night sight" spell, etc.

GetAngry · 28th July 2008, 07:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by ketrine

I won't play a game I cant see.

then log off and come back in the morning

o and we can probanbly alredy be expecting this because the two peoples in the teaser had torches to manuever through the cave

monteefyster · 28th July 2008, 11:17

I also totally agree with the need for a significant difference between night & day. This also brings an aspect I had mentioned in one of my posts. There are obviously creatures of the night that thrive on darkness, who would not be out during the day, and fighting those creatures would & should be more difficult. I like the tension that could come with traveling during the night with limited natural illumination. Torches will become an everyday necessity for everyone. For some, hanging out in towns & villages during the night cycle could be a cool thing. Imagine wandering around a town during the evening with streets lined with torches, giving an awesome effect to the brilliance of the town. I would surely give a thumbs up for this.

|\/|[]|\|TEE

Rathius · 2nd August 2008, 06:20

I vote for night actually being like night. Unless there are light sources, it should be harder to see what's going on. Especially under the canopy of trees or in a cave. Having the cover of darkness opens up a lot of opportunities for gameplay. Raiding parties, surprise sieges, or even jsut running away and hiding in the darkness comes to mind.

Lialith · 2nd August 2008, 10:51

i think if you make the night realistic dark, you also have to count that "mali" in when it comes to a fight. in that case it would be realy cool.

Phi · 2nd August 2008, 12:14

I don't know much about the unreal engine they are using, does it support advanced lighting like high dynamic ranged? This would be an extremely bad ass feature in an MMO. It would make for some uses cool magic like illuminating spells, and maybe we'll even get a race with night vision as a racial attribute. I really like the ideas of camp fires too, they could ward away some beast's and even attract certian demons.

Neek · 5th August 2008, 23:02

Ok, so you hear that, Mr. Devs, if you please?

Give MO a world that has sunshine and moonshine. Dew EET!

Fyrburn · 5th August 2008, 23:08

The greatest problem with making darkness significant enough to hinder vision is that

A) Monitor settings can counter it significantly.
B) Hacks can change the lighting.
C) System requirements go up with more reliable methods.

kurrency420 · 6th August 2008, 00:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ulti

night shouldn't have any lightsources except for the moon(s?) and the torch/latern you bring with you.

so if you go out at night while it's newmoon and without a torch you are screwed!

even if you got a torch the light still wouldn't get you much of a view...
walking alone in a forest while there are all the creepy night sounds and you turn around every few seconds becoming paranoid slowly cause you can't see far enough... only thinking about the trill you could run into makes me feel so excited XD

I agree, the moon will cast great light, except in certain shadows.

kurrency420 · 6th August 2008, 00:19

and the Unreal Engine is a great engine, Gears of War and unreal tournament 3 or using it, and although unreal doesn't use it to the fullest in terms of lighting and shadows, Gears of War does a much better job. One map impaticular i remember is a very dark map with the only lighting a few lights and lightning would light up the map every now and then, and there were spots ppl could hide and it be hard to be seen.
The problem i think with what ive seen used of the unreal engine is the colors are bright and definitive, just making the world look like real life which has its dull colors, bla bla. And unreal is known to have a lil choppy of gameplay, even on great computers, but...
With that being a farely new engine, its just the beginning for what can be done with it. I believe it is going to be a great looking game in all aspects, even Gears of War 2 looks twice as good as the first and were talking a console game right now.

I will have to upgrade my system for this game i bet!

Lachrymose · 7th August 2008, 02:39

i like this idea. in UO i always wanted to turn on the "dark nights" option, but i figured it would give me a handicap if i ran into someone (since i had to use a free hand to hold a lantern or torch).

if everyone was subject to the same conditions, i think it would be a good idea, provided the devs made certain this feature couldn't be bypassed by upping the brightness on your monitor, etc.

this would add some depth to stealth gameplay, so that pk's could hunt at night, looking for unsuspecting blots of light in the distance, while remaining hidden in the shadows. sounds fun.

Reclusiarch · 7th August 2008, 20:16

I agree with the origional poster. Night and torches = immersion.

Reverend Mundane · 8th August 2008, 02:18

If something like this is implemented, in-game day cycles can't follow real world day cycles (days in the game world lasting 24 real hours). That would suck for people who can play only at certain hours. Not a big deal in games where only difference between day and night is very slight color change in lighting, but if nights have some real meaning...

Easily solvable with having 2 to 6 hour day cycle though. (Just some randomish numbers)

Anyways... good idea(s). Would be nice to see it in game, but no idea if it's worth all the trouble to get it right.

Wolverine · 8th August 2008, 03:01

I think is a great idea,,,I could just Imagine waiting with a bow and seeing a guy with fire come and killing him hehehehe.

Lachrymose · 8th August 2008, 03:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Mundane

Anyways... good idea(s). Would be nice to see it in game, but no idea if it's worth all the trouble to get it right.

this is a rarity for me, but i actually think this is one of the features that wouldn't be a waste of time to implement. it would add a great deal of depth to stealth gameplay, and it would just make the world more interesting since the difference between night and day has the effect of seemingly changing the environment. a trail that seemed safe during the day becomes terrifying to travel alone at night.

it'd also make things a little more realistic in that more people would gather in the cities at night to avoid the pk's lurking in the darkness, rather than wandering about in the woods. could make for some interesting night life.

IcePillow · 11th August 2008, 00:47

Uhm, won't work.
People will get sad.

Slive · 14th August 2008, 01:37

Like someone said, day an night is a huge handicap. I believe a casual gamer will hate the fact that he cant see a single thing at night and gets attacked by a mob he cant see and gets cut down to half health. Some people might enjoy the thought of having to creep around and keep a sharp eye, but for the masses people just want to kill things and etc...

25th July 2008, 20:57	#1 (permalink)
Neek Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: ATX Posts: 328 Rep Power: 1	Night Vs. Day Night should be significant in that when you leave a town, there should be a necessity to bring a light source at night. I'm tired of games will little distinction between the two. It's a pet peeve of mine ever since these games came out. It's a poor example, but Everquest had something close to right when elves had night vision, yet running around in the dark was still apprehensive. Danger will take a whole new form when you enter the wilderness and rely on your light source to see what's lurking, raising the bar in terms of tension, and actually make exploring perilous. Crafters could enter with their own torches that shed more light than the vendor bought ones. Gamma setting should be capped as to discourage gamers who would crank it up to avoid the problems darkness causes. Bring back the Night! __________________ Ghosts of War

27th July 2008, 16:09	#8 (permalink)
catmorbid Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Finland Posts: 481 Rep Power: 1	Then it should be made possible for you to make fire anywhere and with some time and effort craft makeshift torches to survive through the night. But yeah, I'm all for darker nights. They bring a lot more atmosphere to the game. __________________ Judgement and Perserverance "There's more to the picture, than meets the eye" ESAK: Achiever 33.33%, Explorer 86.67%, Killer 26.67%, Socializer 60.00% Follower of the Great Cat God Felissos

28th July 2008, 11:17	#14 (permalink)
monteefyster Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 82 Rep Power: 1	I also totally agree with the need for a significant difference between night & day. This also brings an aspect I had mentioned in one of my posts. There are obviously creatures of the night that thrive on darkness, who would not be out during the day, and fighting those creatures would & should be more difficult. I like the tension that could come with traveling during the night with limited natural illumination. Torches will become an everyday necessity for everyone. For some, hanging out in towns & villages during the night cycle could be a cool thing. Imagine wandering around a town during the evening with streets lined with torches, giving an awesome effect to the brilliance of the town. I would surely give a thumbs up for this. \|\/\|[]\|\\|TEE __________________ "you may beat on me,beat me up & beat me down. If you leave without taking my soul,you will forever be looking behind you. I will hunt you down and strip you of your soul,leaving your empty shell of a body for the walking dead to devour in all their feasting pleasures"

5th August 2008, 23:02	#18 (permalink)
Neek Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: ATX Posts: 328 Rep Power: 1	Ok, so you hear that, Mr. Devs, if you please? Give MO a world that has sunshine and moonshine. Dew EET! __________________ Ghosts of War

6th August 2008, 00:19	#21 (permalink)
kurrency420 Junior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: OHIO Posts: 30 Rep Power: 1	and the Unreal Engine is a great engine, Gears of War and unreal tournament 3 or using it, and although unreal doesn't use it to the fullest in terms of lighting and shadows, Gears of War does a much better job. One map impaticular i remember is a very dark map with the only lighting a few lights and lightning would light up the map every now and then, and there were spots ppl could hide and it be hard to be seen. The problem i think with what ive seen used of the unreal engine is the colors are bright and definitive, just making the world look like real life which has its dull colors, bla bla. And unreal is known to have a lil choppy of gameplay, even on great computers, but... With that being a farely new engine, its just the beginning for what can be done with it. I believe it is going to be a great looking game in all aspects, even Gears of War 2 looks twice as good as the first and were talking a console game right now. I will have to upgrade my system for this game i bet! __________________ Kurrency : Current LOTRO player, Mortal is going to be a wonderful game and I am going to own ALL OF YOU.

25th July 2008, 21:36	#2 (permalink)
ccoa Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 210 Rep Power: 1	Agreed, Night needs to be dangerous, especially in a game like MO. As for the gamma settings being capped chances are someone will find a way around it. But if you could figure out someway to prevent it that would be awesome.

26th July 2008, 01:29	#3 (permalink)
ketrine Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 34 Rep Power: 0	I won't play a game I cant see.

26th July 2008, 06:00	#6 (permalink)
Oddurbergthor Newbie Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 10 Rep Power: 0	Sounds like a good idea. Make it shorten the length for wich you can look forward, (or any other direction) so you cannot see anything 20y away for example, but anything inside that can be seen. Since it could get VERY irritating.

26th July 2008, 12:13	#7 (permalink)
Ulti Junior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 27 Rep Power: 1	night shouldn't have any lightsources except for the moon(s?) and the torch/latern you bring with you. so if you go out at night while it's newmoon and without a torch you are screwed! even if you got a torch the light still wouldn't get you much of a view... walking alone in a forest while there are all the creepy night sounds and you turn around every few seconds becoming paranoid slowly cause you can't see far enough... only thinking about the trill you could run into makes me feel so excited XD

27th July 2008, 16:37	#9 (permalink)
Cardinal Harvest Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 34 Rep Power: 0	I agree with OP. After seeing torches in teaser i guess and hope there will be need of using some sort of lights at night too.

28th July 2008, 06:46	#12 (permalink)
Jutsin Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Adelaide, Australia Age: 23 Posts: 62 Rep Power: 0	I definitely agree with the OP. Night should have some significant difference to daytime, and should require some kind of illumination to navigate it properly. Towns would obviously be well-lit, open fields would have near-sufficient lightning from the moon, but forests, caves, dungeons (even during the daytime, unless there's openings to let light in) should really require "manual" illumination. A flaming torch, "night sight" spell, etc.

2nd August 2008, 06:20	#15 (permalink)
Rathius Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Kansas Age: 24 Posts: 444 Rep Power: 1	I vote for night actually being like night. Unless there are light sources, it should be harder to see what's going on. Especially under the canopy of trees or in a cave. Having the cover of darkness opens up a lot of opportunities for gameplay. Raiding parties, surprise sieges, or even jsut running away and hiding in the darkness comes to mind.

2nd August 2008, 10:51	#16 (permalink)
Lialith Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Germany Age: 25 Posts: 91 Rep Power: 2	i think if you make the night realistic dark, you also have to count that "mali" in when it comes to a fight. in that case it would be realy cool.

2nd August 2008, 12:14	#17 (permalink)
Phi Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 250 Rep Power: 1	I don't know much about the unreal engine they are using, does it support advanced lighting like high dynamic ranged? This would be an extremely bad ass feature in an MMO. It would make for some uses cool magic like illuminating spells, and maybe we'll even get a race with night vision as a racial attribute. I really like the ideas of camp fires too, they could ward away some beast's and even attract certian demons.

5th August 2008, 23:08	#19 (permalink)
Fyrburn Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Scotland, UK Age: 21 Posts: 45 Rep Power: 1	The greatest problem with making darkness significant enough to hinder vision is that A) Monitor settings can counter it significantly. B) Hacks can change the lighting. C) System requirements go up with more reliable methods.

7th August 2008, 02:39	#22 (permalink)
Lachrymose Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: SC, United States Clan: Aegis Imperium Playstyle: PK/PvP Age: 22 Posts: 1,531 Rep Power: 5	i like this idea. in UO i always wanted to turn on the "dark nights" option, but i figured it would give me a handicap if i ran into someone (since i had to use a free hand to hold a lantern or torch). if everyone was subject to the same conditions, i think it would be a good idea, provided the devs made certain this feature couldn't be bypassed by upping the brightness on your monitor, etc. this would add some depth to stealth gameplay, so that pk's could hunt at night, looking for unsuspecting blots of light in the distance, while remaining hidden in the shadows. sounds fun. __________________ /thread "As the end is drawing near, standing proud, I won't give in to fear As I die a legend will be born... I will stand, I will fight.. you'll never take me alive..." ________________________________________________ Killer 100.00%, Achiever 46.67%, Explorer 46.67%, Socializer 6.67%

7th August 2008, 20:16	#23 (permalink)
Reclusiarch Junior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sweden Age: 28 Posts: 127 Rep Power: 0	I agree with the origional poster. Night and torches = immersion.

8th August 2008, 02:18	#24 (permalink)
Reverend Mundane Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 46 Rep Power: 1	If something like this is implemented, in-game day cycles can't follow real world day cycles (days in the game world lasting 24 real hours). That would suck for people who can play only at certain hours. Not a big deal in games where only difference between day and night is very slight color change in lighting, but if nights have some real meaning... Easily solvable with having 2 to 6 hour day cycle though. (Just some randomish numbers) Anyways... good idea(s). Would be nice to see it in game, but no idea if it's worth all the trouble to get it right.

8th August 2008, 03:01	#25 (permalink)
Wolverine Newbie Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 12 Rep Power: 1	I think is a great idea,,,I could just Imagine waiting with a bow and seeing a guy with fire come and killing him hehehehe.

11th August 2008, 00:47	#27 (permalink)
IcePillow Newbie Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 26 Rep Power: 1	Uhm, won't work. People will get sad.

14th August 2008, 01:37	#28 (permalink)
Slive Newbie Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Cali. Posts: 5 Rep Power: 0	Like someone said, day an night is a huge handicap. I believe a casual gamer will hate the fact that he cant see a single thing at night and gets attacked by a mob he cant see and gets cut down to half health. Some people might enjoy the thought of having to creep around and keep a sharp eye, but for the masses people just want to kill things and etc...

14th August 2008, 01:40	#29 (permalink)
Rathius Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Kansas Age: 24 Posts: 444 Rep Power: 1