Altering your character - lich, vamp, werewolf, sale your soul, etc.

[1reaver1]

Somewhere i saw a post concerning vampires. While I like the idea of th concept, i hope it isn't easy to become one, or any other like condition.

would be nice if being a vampire or werewolf were VERY rare possibilities that you could try to accomplish if you really wanted it. It might depend on being in the right place, remote possibility of being biten in a fight but only when you are very low hitpoint and then you have to have the luck of beating him and surviving the battle. Maybe even only let it occur if you are not grouped, since the mob would be focued on you and not have agro against a group of people.

You could tweek other classes like werewolves other ways, like only the peak of the full moon would he even try to bite someone.

It would just be nice to make it hard to do, rare to accomplish, and so on, so there aren't 1000 of them running around. Maybe have a few options as well that you could choose but were aa pain to accomplish as well....like turning yourself into a Lich. (I so would go after being a lich for a potenial magic bump) Or maybe you get such a large rep you get the attention of a God and recieve an offer to sale your soul.
(I could go on i guess, the possibilities are rather endless)

maybe content like this is even more appropriate for an update or exspansion, i don't know.

If you have an idea for something like that, feel free to post. Would be awesome to see a "destiny exspansion" at some point, if the options aren't there on release. Something with some new content but the release of multiple possible destiny lines if you choose to pursue one.

[Kraven]

The basic idea is good.

But its a player skill based game so it has to work in a way to a Vampire, Lycan, Lich, etc, do have an advantage and a disadvantage of equal strength.

[holo4ever]

I find the idea rather interesting. Such as the vampire would be only very strong during the night and during the day he would have weakened abilities during the day.

Anyway, the concept is nice, if you tinker around it a little something great might come out of it

On the rarity part, it agree, it has to be rather hard for this to be obtained. Such as only 10 people / month might get it or something around those line.. dunno, and a hard pre-quest for it too.

[ccoa]

You know I guess the idea of being a vampire or lycan is so cool that people forget that it is an actual curse. Why would someone want to be a social outcast shunned from the civilized world, or turn into a uncontrolable ranging werewolf?

I think if it is implemented it should have more of a disadvantage than an advantage. I think oblivion did the vampire thing well enough, I mean I went so deep into becoming a vampire that soon it just got plain annoying.

[Lialith]

why should anyone want to become a vampire? are you kidding? ^^ what about all that melodramatic beauty? what about immortality?! ... ok, well, my character is immortal anyway... so hmm... maybe it really shouldnt rise your stats at all.

[1reaver1]

I do totally agree. Make the payoff well worth the switch but the downside so dramtic it woulld make the average person scream in terror and run for a cure if they got nailed.

If you stumble on a hermits hut who unluckly got nailed with being a vampire but wanted to keep it, you should scream like a girl scout running away from him. Likewise the downfall to how cumbersome of a life the person lead should be almost game breaking for them. (It is a curse, to bad and congradulations at the same time....LOL)


Personally i would think some things might have totally different dynamics. Lich for example. For those that understand the condition, you have basically hidden your soul in a jar. Trade-off = magic buffs, strength buffs etc. Down side = I sure as hell don't want the ja on me. If it gets looted you would be able to kill me at will...suck for me. I can see someone paying a crap load to get ttheir jar back or constanly trying to find it. (PLEASE LET IT BE TRACKABLE IF YOU IMPLEMENT THIS> I SHOULD BE ABLE TO DETECT MY OWN SOUL, at least within a zone.>PLEASE PLAES PLEASE>)


Personally i like the idea of Lich wih certain criteria. Make the buff worth the trade though and make the down side a pain in the &*%.

[ccoa]

It's a phylactery. The lich thing that is.

But I think it's a good idea, maybe instead of "killing" the lich at will you would have MAJOR debuffs for not having your phylactery on your person.

And as for vampires maybe something like you are drastically weaker (weaker than before) if you haven't fed on someones blood in x amount of time aswell as the no sunlight part.

A Lycan/Werewolf wouldn't notice any changes until a full moon where they become an uncontrolable beast that attacks anything which could lead people not wanting one in their party.

[1reaver1]

I'd kind of like to hide mine, though it would bite forgetting where it was at or having someone stumble across it....lol I guess that would just suck for me.

would be interesting knowing you have a lich on your tail because you have their container though.

If they did something like this, i would hope they have to keep the item on them until I come to spank them or they send it specifically back to me. You would need to build something in to make sure you weren't dealing with someone who only logs in every 2 weeks or worse yet quits all togather but doesn't cancel their account. If that was the case, you basically would have broken your chaacter. (maybe if they aren't logged in, the item is located in their house of something like that.)

[Helianthus]

Originally Posted by 1reaver1

would be nice if being a vampire or werewolf were VERY rare possibilities that you could try to accomplish if you really wanted it.

Kinda like a Jedi in Pre-SWG, I like the idea and the downside discussed in the thread too ^^

But then to the feeding sugestion for the vampires etc, who would you feed on? Npc's? and if so what happens if someone cought you? It all seems to be going a bit indepth for a mmo imo

[ccoa]

Originally Posted by Helianthus

Kinda like a Jedi in Pre-SWG, I like the idea and the downside discussed in the thread too ^^

But then to the feeding sugestion for the vampires etc, who would you feed on? Npc's? and if so what happens if someone cought you? It all seems to be going a bit indepth for a mmo imo

Well, what would the downside be to vampires? What would their weakness be other than the sun? Plus if someone catches you the locals in that specefic town won't talk to you or give you quests, perhaps even attack you.

Besides, I don't really see how in-depth it is plus MO isn't your regular MMO.

[Rathius]

While I do like the idea, there would need to be some major balance issues going on. Because, depending on the vampire type used, you could have immense strengths which put you beyond player skill. Something like this, I could honestly see your character still being in game (in your coffin) when you log out. That way a player could come and kill you while you sleep if you were lazy enough to not find a good haven. But this brings into play questions about perma-death or if you aren't a vampire when you come back....

As for the curse thing, I personally don't see it as being that bad. I mean if it was so much a horrible horrible curse... why didn't they just kill themselves by sitting out in the sun?

[Sanctus]

I agree, the disadvantage should at least slightly outweigh the advantages, that's why it was called a curse in the first place.

As for the curse thing, I personally don't see it as being that bad. I mean if it was so much a horrible horrible curse... why didn't they just kill themselves by sitting out in the sun?

Well, that's kind of obvious, I wouldn't give up on life, and it's not that it so OMGWTFBBQSAUCE terrible throughout the whole ordeal, in time, you get used to it and it doesn't seem like such a terrible thing as it was, though it could still suck pretty bad, it all comes down to circumstance, "Am I alone?" "Do I know of a secret society of vampires I can go to?" "Would they help me? Or kill me?" Like I said, I wouldn't just give up and sit in the sun to die, sure there might be a bigger disadvantage, but hey, there are a few advantages as well, /flex.

Well, what would the downside be to vampires? What would their weakness be other than the sun? Plus if someone catches you the locals in that specefic town won't talk to you or give you quests, perhaps even attack you.

Besides, I don't really see how in-depth it is plus MO isn't your regular MMO.

Some ideas are great, others...not so great. Honestly, yeah we are getting a little to far outside of the box. Disadvantages, hmm... Well, Vampires are technically bonded to evil in some form or fashion... So maybe religious symbols could be used to debuff vampires? Personally I don't see why garlic has anything to do with hurting vampires...But what about coating your favorite vamp-hunting blade with holy water for quite a bit of a damage boost? As for Lycans, wow, well, easy, Silver weapons (That pierce skin) should make a lycan run away, that bestial fury and amplified instinct should always come at a cost, but losing control over who you attack? Maybe, but not forever, maybe for the first few transformations yeah, I can see myself losing control and giving in to my inner beast, not knowing what to do, or how to control myself, but surely as time moves on I should be able to learn how to control myself without fear of going wild on my party members.
I'm not to indepth with the whole lich idea, it sounds good, I just don't know much about liches, but I do agree, a lich should be able to track his/her soul.

That way a player could come and kill you while you sleep if you were lazy enough to not find a good haven. But this brings into play questions about perma-death or if you aren't a vampire when you come back....

Honestly, I abhore the thought of perma-death, especially in this position, but the suggestion that you might not be a vampire afterwards, is pretty interesting. But then again, NO self-respcting vampire with half a brain would just leave a well placed coffin satisfy their paranoia of being killed in their sleep...which is why I suggest some sort of guardian system, in WoW (sorry for bringing back the repressed memories) for a hunter to get his pre-AQ epic bow, he had to kill a few demons solo, with no help, so what I was thinking, was having the vampire kill whatever he can, raise it, and have it as a guardian to watch over his/her coffin. It would make vampire hunting much more interesting to see what creature I'd be facing.

But then to the feeding sugestion for the vampires etc, who would you feed on? Npc's? and if so what happens if someone cought you?

Something that was quite interesting, at least to how you would/coul play your character was from the game Vampires the Masquerade: Bloodlines (I think) on how high-social status had better blood? Well, we could implement that into Mortal Online, heck, some blood might even be toxic to a vampire. A vampire is supposedly pretty vulnerable while he/she is feeding, so I think feeding should be an action, not like--> I walk up to a person, hit the skill, and an icon appears that represents that I am feeding, That's most likely going to take to much time to do, but it would make a vampire a vampire, a set duration on how quickly you can stop feeding if/when you are attacked in the process. And yeah, umm, if I saw a vampire feeding on "me mum" you bet your pale blood starved self I'm a gonna rush in and start whacking away with my torch and pitchfork.

Well, there's my two cents.

[ccoa]

Very good post Sanctus. And as for the Lycan not losing control after a few times then what? They are super powerful with only one weakness, silver weapons which would probably cost a hell of alot of money which only special Lycan Hunting NPC's or players bent on killing Lycan's would have.

As for the vampire blood I think making different blood do different effects might be a bit much. The only way someones blood would be differenet would be if it was a virgins blood or something like that, maybe a person who has been baptised would be immune to a vampires touch or something like that.

[Kraven]

About Lycans losing controle over their chars is well understandable, but not only "for a certain time" like the first few times, make it a "instinct" if the Lycan is outnumbered alot or weakened badly the player loses controle, cause the beast takes over.

[HeinousOne]

One of the disadvantages is basically giving up on society, or atleast being a part of it. As a vampire you might be able to work your way through the city at night and not be known. Of course there will probably be some form of religion with its templars and priests. Expect to possibly be found out by them. Also you might find players able to earn those templar or priest classes, who would then gain the ability to sense such evil.

After you have been turned into a vampire, are you now in a city that the incumbant vamps think has enough vampires already? Time to find yourself a new haven.

I wouldnt go so far as to take control away from players. Sounds great lorewise but not so great when it comes to gameplay. Also, as players begin to learn the very serious downsides of these special classes there should be a way out for them. Some way to defeat the curse. That will also help limit the amount of these classes because you KNOW people are going to jump at the opportunity when they come across it.

[1reaver1]

oh well, lots of people eluding to buffs and consquences of the changesso i will take a stab.

Vamps:
Nice buff by night.

• Damage shield
• Boosts to agility, maybe wis (it is basically in increased ranger / tank state) Vamps should be kind of balanced for any class though an a general all around bump since they don't seem to really follow a rule.)
• siphon life from attacked to yourself at a small rate
• tracking skill - enhanced if you arlready have it
• fear
• charm / pet

Debuff by day:

• showing up in town by day - mass agro
• take a major hit on damage shield below original stats
• all social interaction is rare with NPC without agro, including quests unless you have a HUGE reputation with them as a hero
• all group / raid buffs decreased by 25%

general;

• holy weapons negate night buff if damage is by the weapon
• stake through the heart while below 10% health - to bad, you are no longer a vamp

Lich:
Just a mix of general concepts

• NICE damage shield buff
• Nice Magic boost - the whole idea behind a lich is magical (It is basically an increased mage state)
• Damaga shield decreases with each zone you get further away from your stored soul. (carrying it has it's up side, but maybe not a huge one.)
• Holy weapons negate the buff
• you can hide the container with your soul or keep it on you.
• If you hide it, it can be found but can also be tracked.
• If someone picks it up, it has to be kept on them or put in their house where you have access to retrieve it.
• IF they hold it, you buffs should be even better when fighting them. (I thought about it being weaker of stronger, but opted for stronger.) I would think you might need the bump to retrieve. Plus, it would make just as much sense that is they have your soul on thier person, it would have some effect on them as well.
• If they kill you, they have the option to destroy the container. (To bad, you are no longer a lich.) If should be hard to become one to begin with. You might want to consider dealing to get it back....lol. They do have your soul after all and it is your fault for hiding it so poorly.
• Some locations would effect you. The more holy the location, the harder you are hit.

Rule of thumb for the lich group. (Nice buffs. If faced by one, just keep a holy weapon on you. Odds are you will get their soul and get paid or you can just do the world a favor and break the container.)

Werewolf:
+'s

• Night, minor shield / attack boost boost.
• Full moon, tranform and major boosts
• Boosts should be in things like shield, agility, attack (it is basically an increased tank state)
• Either adds a tracking skill or increases the one you have

-'s

• Showing up in town at night - minor agro (There is just something about you.)
• Showing up in town during a full moon - prepare for mass attacks
• hit with a silver weapon while below 10%, to bad, no longer a werewolf.

You can keep adding if you like. Personally i think Lich has the most up side, but of course it comes with a little blackmail possibility added to it. Anyway, i'd make each have some general type pluses but try to gear the pluses toward a historical class like tank, mage or general/ranger. Mainly because as an example; why would a mage wish to be a werewolf. If wouldn't help the magic much, but if you didn't want to be so squishy; well here is an alternative for you.

Anyway, i am sure i could keep exspanding and exspanding on the concepts. Lets see where people run with it though, might be more interesting.

[Fyrburn]

The choice to become a vampire or other thing would be cool, but not for me unless it was overpowered. In which case everyone would want it anyway.

I mean, deciding your character's entire play style will be permanently changed in often inhibiting ways, just to get the moniker of "vampire" holds the social stigma
of goths and the like.
It can potentially say a lot about your personality, or leave you at the wrong end of prejudice simply about how you want to play.


That aside, vampires aren't that interesting anyway. Good looks? Romantic? Immortality? Super strength?
I'd be more interested in dedicating my life to becoming a God, than the super natural equivalent of a night crawling cockroach.




As for ingame dynamics, not going into towns during daylight can be counter acted by sending in an alt character to act as a pack mule. Thus negating one of possibly the most important social side effects.

[Kaoy]

Why not make it a 'American Werewolf in London' style transformation. You gain strength and speed, but lose any rational thought and become quadpedle(all four) instead of bipedal(2 legs). You would get a boost in life, regen, movment speed, and attack power. You lose the abblity to use skills, passivly evade attacks(such as a miss, though you can still manually dodge), use items, wear equipment, pick up drops, or see opponents names or enter towns. You would essentially be no better than a powerful mob while transfomred.

A forced transformation would be a nessecity, so they can't just switch to gain an advantadge. Perhaps after making a kill, you could eat things, if they are edible, to regen helath quickly for a short period of time. If you died, you would have to wait for the time where your body would transform back to human to get ressurected. Perhaps, to add to the effect of it being a curse, you would not gain any expereince to used stats while in this form, thus halting advancment.

These are just some ideas, and I could see such a system being fun and working. There would have to be some cure avalible though, even if it is difficult to get or hard to make, though, so you aren't stuck transforming once in awhile if you don't want to.

I said that in another thread on the topic. The loss of control is shown by not being able to see names, use skills, or enter towns. The real curse is shown by it being uncontrolable, the delay in ressurection, and the halting of character progression.

Also, I don't think vampires or lichs would work in the MO setting. From what I saw in the teaser, I just can't see a vampire in the kind of scenery. Also, the idea is a just a little meh. They sound good on paper and they look great in our heads, but thinking on a gameplay and development standpoint, I really see no way for what you all are describing to work. You seem to be looking for Oblivion MMO as far as the interaction with NPC's goes. This game is player driven. That really wouldn't work.

Try thinking of it in the terms of development. How can they be shown in an MMO? A Permanent race change would be a very poor function, as it would screw with the players build. The ability to change at will would create major balancing nightmares. Buffs by night and debuffs by day is a very poor choice for a competetive MMO, like MO is meant to be, because that would mean the player just has to hide away somewhere for 1/2 to a 2/3 of thier game time.

As far as player skill is involved, a master with handguns against a mediocre sniper at 300 yards is an unfair fight no matter which way the sun faces. What I mean is that such a large advantadge is going to give the mediocre a better chance then they deserve. And really, can you really see your self sitting there for 2 hours waiting for it to become night just so you can actually do something? At day, any player that felt like it could kill you dead. With such an open PvP enviroment, that is going to be a dangrous thing. To say 'So let us hide our vapirisim' would be an unfair advantadge.

Likewise, at night, the game would end up revolving around avoiding vampires. You may say 'That adds a new element', but it doesn't. It just breaks an existing one. MO is already open PvP. Giving certain players an advantandge at certain times just makes that uneven. If the game was permadeath, maybe. But since the weak vamp you kill in the afternoon can come back and a pissed strong vamp at midnight, it really just gives the vamp an added bonus. They could be a relatively unskilled player, but thier buffs would make them real forces during the games night.