crafting vs our personal skills

1reaver1 · 31st July 2008, 12:44

Would it be interesting to have your person skill line effect your crafting directly.

Example:
You are a blackmith but you are a caster. = things you make would have a small additional magical buff

You are a cook but but you are a ranger = maybe your food lasts longer or has additional endurance buffs since you know your ingredients well and are use to cooking for your exploration trips.

Anyway, you get the idea i am sure. Basic concept is to let your skill slightly affect you craft due to your expertise. It would make items even more unique that each class crafts.

(In theory, my mage making necklace or muffin would obviously have a different agenda and than a ranger or tank. They might all be very similar but we would obviously appraoch it differently and be capable of a slighltly different product.)

1reaver1 · 31st July 2008, 12:49

The other obvious additional upside would be whatever caft you practice, you would prodably make the most approriate things for yourself, unless you had a different agenda.

Likewise, your class mates would probably seek your items over things made by a different class. Unless like we said they happened to be after something not traditional core to there main traditional needs. (It happens, i know as a mage i have gone after shielding items when a boost to damage was the traditional route simply because i had hit a cap and being a little less squishy had a better payoff)

Oh well, food for though prepared by a caster.....enjoy.

Dagger · 31st July 2008, 16:33

Though I like the synergy concept when they work along the same line of skill, I don't really like this idea. Besides, if you start with enchants on gear to make gear more powerful, isn't that against the concept that gear shouldn't make much of a difference in PvP?

Good synergies I would like to see:
Being able to make a chainmail vest -> learning to smelt mythril -> able to make the same mythril vest.

Shinzon · 31st July 2008, 18:27

Small "Buffs" can be simply "This sword is sharper" so they add your own flavour to the items.

Dagger · 31st July 2008, 18:30

The thing about buffs, is that they are considered necessary to max your stats. I don't like buff systems at all. A sharp dagger would always be better than a normal dagger, so what's the point of the normal dagger? I think that if someone dedicates their life to crafting, their items shouldn't be inferior just because they're not a caster aswell, imho.

ccoa · 31st July 2008, 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dagger

The thing about buffs, is that they are considered necessary to max your stats. I don't like buff systems at all. A sharp dagger would always be better than a normal dagger, so what's the point of the normal dagger? I think that if someone dedicates their life to crafting, their items shouldn't be inferior just because they're not a caster aswell, imho.

Because the normal dagger is easier to craft than the sharp dagger. People don't go out hunting in their best gear due to the risk of being looted. Therefor people opt for the normald dagger since it is cheaper and not a huge loss when looted.

Dagger · 31st July 2008, 21:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by ccoa

Because the normal dagger is easier to craft than the sharp dagger. People don't go out hunting in their best gear due to the risk of being looted. Therefor people opt for the normald dagger since it is cheaper and not a huge loss when looted.

That's not what this thread is about. It's about the chance of something that costs the same to craft, coming out differently just because of your class. Sure, if it was equal for everyone, there could be a few different outcomes. But simply getting a magic stat on your gear because you are a mage would be imbalanced. Ultimately it would lead to people choosing to go towards a specific class to get the best type of items. Be it gear or anything else. Those who do not do the same would become inferior at the same level of advancement.

1reaver1 · 31st July 2008, 23:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dagger

The thing about buffs, is that they are considered necessary to max your stats. I don't like buff systems at all. A sharp dagger would always be better than a normal dagger, so what's the point of the normal dagger? I think that if someone dedicates their life to crafting, their items shouldn't be inferior just because they're not a caster aswell, imho.

i guess what i was prosing is more a matter of choice. Do you want:
1. Tha dagger made by a mage that absorbs a little of the mana used and recycles it.
2. The dagger mage by a ranger that is a bit sharper
3. the dagger made by a necro that instill a small "Rot" DOT.

All are equally balanced. Just depends on what you are looking for.This would just be a slight bump in a particular direction. You'll always have better and worse items that a class can use. There really isn't any getting around that. This just agments whatever you are making slightly with and additional factor based on you class.

Oh well, just a concept really. Not saying a mage and a Ranger couldn't make the exact same uber arrow, just that they might each have an additional small class spin due to your speciality. Would be rather sad to think as a mage i had nothing special to offer or as a ranger you haven't learned anything through your years of use with arrow that you have nothing special to contribute due to that special knowledge.

i wouldn't make it an overwhelming factor though, just a nudge in a special direction.

1reaver1 · 31st July 2008, 23:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dagger

That's not what this thread is about. It's about the chance of something that costs the same to craft, coming out differently just because of your class. Sure, if it was equal for everyone, there could be a few different outcomes. But simply getting a magic stat on your gear because you are a mage would be imbalanced. Ultimately it would lead to people choosing to go towards a specific class to get the best type of items. Be it gear or anything else. Those who do not do the same would become inferior at the same level of advancement.

I think it would kind of depend on the class you are. It is assuming the ranger would slightly bump you in a direction more benificial to rangers, the mage would slightly bump you to what is good for mages...ect.

That taken into account. That doesn't mean that would always be peoples choices. I have character totally raid trickked out in EQ2 and i can name more than one item i keep on hand that isn't meant to be for a mage. It has it's purpose though due to my playstyle. Had more than one person argue with me over my opinion, of course they are argueing about it while below me on the parse....lol.

Dagger · 31st July 2008, 23:20

They won't be "equally balanced." All differences cause imbalance. Some we live with, others we could do without. The enchants in World of Warcraft can be compared to this. There's endgame enchants that are supposed to be balanced, but some of them are simply better than others for the damage output.

You don't even need to be good at maths to find out which dagger would be better to use. Theorycrafters would do it for you, and publish guides on a forum. A Dagger+1 would always be better than the Dagger with a "Rot" effect, or vice-versa.

ccoa · 31st July 2008, 23:50

Dagger is right. I personally don't like this idea either mainly because it destroys the pure crafter option. It basically says if you don't have a combat linked skill line then you will fail at crafting due to your items not giving that extra bump. And like Dagger said people will opt for the +1 dagger and not the Rot effect dagger.

1reaver1 · 1st August 2008, 00:44

HHmmm, WOW sounds rather simplistic. I know in some of my raids i have totally different outfits i wear...sometimes. Some are geared toward increasing casting speed, some are geared toward regen, I even have to seperate sets for DOT. One with and one without. (mainly because some Boss may regen if hit at a vertian interval and the LAST thing i want on him is a DOT, while at other times i may go all DOT just to see the mayhem of anything that touches me getting popped...LOL. There are even situations where DOT's are about the only thing that may hit a mob so anything else isn't as effective.

Technically i should be a pure Intel and Wis class. Intel has hit the max for the game though (Depending what i wear and Wis for mana isn't a problem for me so i don't care if it is maxed.)

I do see what you are saying though. I was just posing the the senerio, so no worries. I personally don't think a smal bump in a catagory would make much of a difference to be honest. If you craft a robe for me as a tank and the damage control is slightly better or i craft one as a mage so the mana is slightly better; personally i would still have a hard time choosing which i wanted. It would depend on my other gear, my play style, the raid content i was going after etc.

Not saying you are wrong. Hell, you may be balls on correct and a boost in one catagory would be a very big deal. WOW's approach to most things seems to be very straight forward though. You might be surprised how little tweking things really affects things beyond personal preferance. Then again, i could be VERY wrong.

It really depend on the game dynamics more than anything i guess. I'll have to see the content before i could give a true opinion in either direction, but i could swing either way depending on what i saw.

ccoa · 1st August 2008, 02:05

You know, I'd really like to leave crafting at basic items and recipes. But then you could modify those recipes with the once in a lifetime boss reagent like a Dragon's Blood to improve on the item.

So say I have my basic sword recipe, it require 5 iron bars and a piece of leather. Now you can throw in a mystical reagent like the said Dragon's Blood used to cool the sword after it's been in the forge where it gains a searing attack or makes it less likely to lose durabilty (which makes more sense if you ask me).

Shinzon · 1st August 2008, 06:02

How about instead of it determining the outcome; it determines the crafting method and starting materials. Balanced in such a way that each type of crafting has diffrent advantages.

Ex: a mage uses less "Raw Materials" but uses expensive reagents while a blacksmith uses the most raw materials but can forge great armor with the most of basic of materials.

Dagger · 1st August 2008, 17:11

I like ccoa's idea, where rare materials can be added into known recipes for a different outcome.

I'm still against having classes decide anything about the crafting though. If it's implemented, the best I can hope for is that they can craft a few items of class-specific interest for their own class. Having different materials can be almost as bad as having a different outcome, since it's hard to balance economy/availability on these.

31st July 2008, 12:44	#1 (permalink)
1reaver1 Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Age: 38 Posts: 116 Rep Power: 0	crafting vs our personal skills Would it be interesting to have your person skill line effect your crafting directly. Example: You are a blackmith but you are a caster. = things you make would have a small additional magical buff You are a cook but but you are a ranger = maybe your food lasts longer or has additional endurance buffs since you know your ingredients well and are use to cooking for your exploration trips. Anyway, you get the idea i am sure. Basic concept is to let your skill slightly affect you craft due to your expertise. It would make items even more unique that each class crafts. (In theory, my mage making necklace or muffin would obviously have a different agenda and than a ranger or tank. They might all be very similar but we would obviously appraoch it differently and be capable of a slighltly different product.)

31st July 2008, 16:33	#3 (permalink)
Dagger Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Norway Age: 20 Posts: 346 Rep Power: 1	Though I like the synergy concept when they work along the same line of skill, I don't really like this idea. Besides, if you start with enchants on gear to make gear more powerful, isn't that against the concept that gear shouldn't make much of a difference in PvP? Good synergies I would like to see: Being able to make a chainmail vest -> learning to smelt mythril -> able to make the same mythril vest. __________________ "The pictures are always so blurry..."

31st July 2008, 18:27	#4 (permalink)
Shinzon Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Toronto, Ontario Age: 19 Posts: 882 Rep Power: 3	Small "Buffs" can be simply "This sword is sharper" so they add your own flavour to the items. __________________ Aegis Imperium

31st July 2008, 18:30	#5 (permalink)
Dagger Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Norway Age: 20 Posts: 346 Rep Power: 1	The thing about buffs, is that they are considered necessary to max your stats. I don't like buff systems at all. A sharp dagger would always be better than a normal dagger, so what's the point of the normal dagger? I think that if someone dedicates their life to crafting, their items shouldn't be inferior just because they're not a caster aswell, imho. __________________ "The pictures are always so blurry..."

31st July 2008, 23:20	#10 (permalink)
Dagger Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Norway Age: 20 Posts: 346 Rep Power: 1	They won't be "equally balanced." All differences cause imbalance. Some we live with, others we could do without. The enchants in World of Warcraft can be compared to this. There's endgame enchants that are supposed to be balanced, but some of them are simply better than others for the damage output. You don't even need to be good at maths to find out which dagger would be better to use. Theorycrafters would do it for you, and publish guides on a forum. A Dagger+1 would always be better than the Dagger with a "Rot" effect, or vice-versa. __________________ "The pictures are always so blurry..."

31st July 2008, 12:49	#2 (permalink)
1reaver1 Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Age: 38 Posts: 116 Rep Power: 0	The other obvious additional upside would be whatever caft you practice, you would prodably make the most approriate things for yourself, unless you had a different agenda. Likewise, your class mates would probably seek your items over things made by a different class. Unless like we said they happened to be after something not traditional core to there main traditional needs. (It happens, i know as a mage i have gone after shielding items when a boost to damage was the traditional route simply because i had hit a cap and being a little less squishy had a better payoff) Oh well, food for though prepared by a caster.....enjoy.

31st July 2008, 23:50	#11 (permalink)
ccoa Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 210 Rep Power: 1	Dagger is right. I personally don't like this idea either mainly because it destroys the pure crafter option. It basically says if you don't have a combat linked skill line then you will fail at crafting due to your items not giving that extra bump. And like Dagger said people will opt for the +1 dagger and not the Rot effect dagger.

1st August 2008, 00:44	#12 (permalink)
1reaver1 Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Age: 38 Posts: 116 Rep Power: 0	HHmmm, WOW sounds rather simplistic. I know in some of my raids i have totally different outfits i wear...sometimes. Some are geared toward increasing casting speed, some are geared toward regen, I even have to seperate sets for DOT. One with and one without. (mainly because some Boss may regen if hit at a vertian interval and the LAST thing i want on him is a DOT, while at other times i may go all DOT just to see the mayhem of anything that touches me getting popped...LOL. There are even situations where DOT's are about the only thing that may hit a mob so anything else isn't as effective. Technically i should be a pure Intel and Wis class. Intel has hit the max for the game though (Depending what i wear and Wis for mana isn't a problem for me so i don't care if it is maxed.) I do see what you are saying though. I was just posing the the senerio, so no worries. I personally don't think a smal bump in a catagory would make much of a difference to be honest. If you craft a robe for me as a tank and the damage control is slightly better or i craft one as a mage so the mana is slightly better; personally i would still have a hard time choosing which i wanted. It would depend on my other gear, my play style, the raid content i was going after etc. Not saying you are wrong. Hell, you may be balls on correct and a boost in one catagory would be a very big deal. WOW's approach to most things seems to be very straight forward though. You might be surprised how little tweking things really affects things beyond personal preferance. Then again, i could be VERY wrong. It really depend on the game dynamics more than anything i guess. I'll have to see the content before i could give a true opinion in either direction, but i could swing either way depending on what i saw.

1st August 2008, 02:05	#13 (permalink)
ccoa Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 210 Rep Power: 1	You know, I'd really like to leave crafting at basic items and recipes. But then you could modify those recipes with the once in a lifetime boss reagent like a Dragon's Blood to improve on the item. So say I have my basic sword recipe, it require 5 iron bars and a piece of leather. Now you can throw in a mystical reagent like the said Dragon's Blood used to cool the sword after it's been in the forge where it gains a searing attack or makes it less likely to lose durabilty (which makes more sense if you ask me).

1st August 2008, 06:02	#14 (permalink)
Shinzon Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Toronto, Ontario Age: 19 Posts: 882 Rep Power: 3	How about instead of it determining the outcome; it determines the crafting method and starting materials. Balanced in such a way that each type of crafting has diffrent advantages. Ex: a mage uses less "Raw Materials" but uses expensive reagents while a blacksmith uses the most raw materials but can forge great armor with the most of basic of materials. __________________ Aegis Imperium

1st August 2008, 17:11	#15 (permalink)
Dagger Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Norway Age: 20 Posts: 346 Rep Power: 1	I like ccoa's idea, where rare materials can be added into known recipes for a different outcome. I'm still against having classes decide anything about the crafting though. If it's implemented, the best I can hope for is that they can craft a few items of class-specific interest for their own class. Having different materials can be almost as bad as having a different outcome, since it's hard to balance economy/availability on these. __________________ "The pictures are always so blurry..."