Who looted my ...?

[Dagger]

One thing that is a bit important in MMOs is to know who loots what from the ground or a corpse. You simply don't see loot animations picking up a specific item, and I think it would be hard to implement something like that at this point. Most games handle the problem by giving out a loot message to everyone in party or nearby.

I think this could be taken further with a quite simple system. When you loot something, your character would release a large and instant AoE. If the AoE hits a wall it stops, but if it hits a player, the player can see your loot message. To take it even further, you could only recieve this message if you were facing the person who looted the item, meaning the AoE hit you in the front.

This logic could also be used for other things, like when you start crafting something. This way, someone hiding behind a wall wouldn't see what you did from their log.

(If you have troubles imgaining this AoE, just imagine an explosion from your character everytime you loot something. Now, make it deal no damage and invisible. Everything it "hits" gets a message of what you looted.)

[Shinzon]

Or an animation depicting the charachter bending down to the ground can be added

[Dagger]

Originally Posted by Shinzon

Or an animation depicting the charachter bending down to the ground can be added

That's normal, but you can't tell what he's taking or if he's taking something at all. He might just be watching the loot window for all you know.

[rick]

there should be a loot animation. and i would prefer a forensic analysis ability to find out who specifically looted what. i like the idea of detectives in mortal with skills such as examine a corpse and find out who murdered this person, who looted the corpse, examine a lock to find out who picked it, etc.

[Dagger]

Well, rick, this idea is more a case of being in the room and seeing the other person doing something. I would rather have a message tell me, as a full simulation of how it would be in real life would be hard to replicate. The AoE would only affect those nearby and in line of sight.

[Collbard]

I agree with Rick about a loot animation and forensic evaluation.

As for the AoE idea, I don't think all players should be alerted when someone is looting. If you see them kneeling down next to a corpse you should use your best judgment as to whether they are looting or not.

[Shinzon]

But this is a next gen MMO right? So it's best to break away from the "MUD" solutions that have been used in the past. Make the animation more detailed with the charachter bending out; actualy picking the item up, and straightening out. You can tell what he picked up; and that also gives a time interval to prevent one person from taking everything in a second and running away...

[Dagger]

Originally Posted by Shinzon

But this is a next gen MMO right? So it's best to break away from the "MUD" solutions that have been used in the past. Make the animation more detailed with the charachter bending out; actualy picking the item up, and straightening out. You can tell what he picked up; and that also gives a time interval to prevent one person from taking everything in a second and running away...

Well, as long as it's possible, this would of course be the best. I simply can't imagine how such a big step would suddenly be possible. I would however like to be able to see if someone loots something. I just thought I'd suggest this to take it a step further than the usual party or vicinity through walls concept mainly used up until now.

The loot system should avoid possible "ninja" discussions when there's many people nearby. If noone can see if others are looting something, let alone what they are looting, it would just be more unrealistic than if you got a message. If I was there, I saw who looted it, I don't need to guess. Perhaps there could be a pickpocket type of skill to hide it at the best.

[Lialith]

why not show the icon of the looted item over the head of the character who loots something for one or two seconds?

btw, if i stand behind a wall or dont look in the right direction, i cant see, but still can hear what happens.

[Neek]

I'd be happy with a system that indicated, uniquely, who killed you and who you killed instead of loot.

[ccoa]

Originally Posted by Shinzon

But this is a next gen MMO right? So it's best to break away from the "MUD" solutions that have been used in the past. Make the animation more detailed with the charachter bending out; actualy picking the item up, and straightening out. You can tell what he picked up; and that also gives a time interval to prevent one person from taking everything in a second and running away...

If you did that every single item in the game would have to have a unique model, including the items you don't equip, plus trinkets of the sort would probably be hard to identify from a distance.

[BloodofDragons]

asheron's call (13-15 year old game) uses an animation of bending down to loot. works very nice.

[Dagger]

Originally Posted by Dagger

That's normal, but you can't tell what he's taking or if he's taking something at all. He might just be watching the loot window for all you know.

^
^

[Shinzon]

If you did that every single item in the game would have to have a unique model, including the items you don't equip, plus trinkets of the sort would probably be hard to identify from a distance.

All things already have a unique model; as you wear them, and that is a model that instead of being slapped onto your charachter can be slapped on the ground. For small intricate items, you can have just one model; as they are too small to see. Or; you can place every item into a "Sack" so you only see the sack; and the person is bending down to pick up that sack...

but, If you do it the WoW way though; where the items stay strictly on the monster; then you will need some text based information on who took what.

[Dagger]

Well, a model for an armor, and a model for an armor on a ragdoll would obviously be different. And it can be hard to tell the equipment apart with pixels being an issue if Star Vault is aiming for realistic looking gear with a few fantastic inspirasions.

As far as this would be possible to accomplish in a manner that could be considered close to successful, I would like to see it. But if it's not, a text system would have to be used as substitute.

[Shinzon]

and a model for an armor on a ragdoll would obviously be different

How so? A 3D model is a 3D model regardless to what it is anchored...

[Dagger]

Originally Posted by Shinzon

How so? A 3D model is a 3D model regardless to what it is anchored...

No, not in these games from what I understand. Weapons would perhaps work like this, but stuff like armor is normally just a custom model for each type of race, perhaps streched a bit to fit the size of chests at most.

Well, I can't say for sure how the devs are planning to do this, but the model on one race is usually different from the model on a different race. And they are not fully 3d. just a 2d template that is "bent" in a certain way to make it seem 3d.

[Shinzon]

I can re assure you; that a model is a model, it doesn't matter on what it is. Each armor has it's own specific 3D model, and a corresponding texture. It can be applied to different genders and races through the use of morphers, so essentialy you can have 1 base template object for everything in the game.

So it doesn't matter where that object exists, if there is a 3D model for it, it can be used absolutley anywhere. From appearing as a drop, to an armor stand, to actualy being on a charachter.

[Dagger]

Originally Posted by Shinzon

So it doesn't matter where that object exists, if there is a 3D model for it, it can be used absolutley anywhere. From appearing as a drop, to an armor stand, to actualy being on a charachter.

I beg to disagree. I think a model made with the intention of sitting on a character would look different on the ground or on a stand (though the two latter could use the same model).

Anyway, as I mentioned, if it's possible this would probably be the best. But I simply don't think it is.

[Collbard]

Seeing a character actually loot individual items is not going to be any more realistic. I mean, you'll see what someone takes, but still. I don't think we'll see anyone unbuckling armor, then stuffing it into their tote bag. All that would happen is some repeated animation of bending over, item appears off of corpse and into hands, item appears off of hands and into looters sack.

[toast]

Originally Posted by Dagger

One thing that is a bit important in MMOs is to know who loots what from the ground or a corpse. You simply don't see loot animations picking up a specific item, and I think it would be hard to implement something like that at this point. Most games handle the problem by giving out a loot message to everyone in party or nearby.

I think this could be taken further with a quite simple system. When you loot something, your character would release a large and instant AoE. If the AoE hits a wall it stops, but if it hits a player, the player can see your loot message. To take it even further, you could only recieve this message if you were facing the person who looted the item, meaning the AoE hit you in the front.

This logic could also be used for other things, like when you start crafting something. This way, someone hiding behind a wall wouldn't see what you did from their log.

(If you have troubles imgaining this AoE, just imagine an explosion from your character everytime you loot something. Now, make it deal no damage and invisible. Everything it "hits" gets a message of what you looted.)

So if it's invisible why not just have a message sent in so much range of the person being looted?

[Dagger]

Originally Posted by toast

So if it's invisible why not just have a message sent in so much range of the person being looted?

Not sure exactly what you are trying to say here, but the idea was to make some function to not let it work out of line of sight as it does in other MMOs. A simple "range" check would ignore walls and such.

[Rathius]

Dagger
- I like the idea. Basically I'd like to see it, if I'm not paying attention to the loot, why should I know what was looted? Since we'll be in first person, it's not hard to check if someone is looking. If you want to know that bad, pay attention or be with trustworthy people that will tell you.

I don't think that seeing each piece picked up would be a good idea. I can -maybe- see the kneeling/reaching to pick up a sack with the item icon or whatnot flashing overhead, but I would settle for a generic text description of what was looted. Player looted armor. Player looted sword.

To add to that, I wouldnt mind seeing an identify skill. Instead of picking up and knowing that you hold a +4 Sword of Smiting (example!), all you see is that it's a sword until you or someone else studies and identifies it's properties.

[toast]

Originally Posted by Dagger

Not sure exactly what you are trying to say here, but the idea was to make some function to not let it work out of line of sight as it does in other MMOs. A simple "range" check would ignore walls and such.

What I am saying is; Does it really matter if people get the message through walls? Doesn't really make sense to me; just seems like something that isn't needed in the game. That's just my opinion. Crafting shouldn't even be show in anyone else's logs but the person who is crafting. As for the looting it should just be range/global message. Why complicate things?

[Rathius]

If people aren't paying attention to the person looting, why should they get to know something was looted? They obviously weren't worried enough about the loot, until they saw something that they wanted that is...

[Dagger]

Originally Posted by toast

What I am saying is; Does it really matter if people get the message through walls? Doesn't really make sense to me; just seems like something that isn't needed in the game. That's just my opinion. Crafting shouldn't even be show in anyone else's logs but the person who is crafting. As for the looting it should just be range/global message. Why complicate things?

Why not? If I can't see the player, I shouldn't know what he's doing. If I can see him, I know what he's doing (picking up an item; crafting; etc.). It's as simple as that. Why doesn't it make sense to you that people getting a message through walls matters? It tells everyone that you are there, without them seeing you.

It would add more realism to the game. Now, there's people who are for realistic aspects, and people against. This is however a subject that wouldn't hurt anyone to keep on the more realistic side. I'm simply suggesting a rather simple system to make it so.

[Modest]

Originally Posted by Dagger

That's normal, but you can't tell what he's taking or if he's taking something at all. He might just be watching the loot window for all you know.

Or you could just implement it in a way where the animation only appears when you actually pick something up, and not only when the "loot window" appears. It is actually possible to implement it in a way that differs from WoW and all the other major cookie-cutter MMO's.

But yeah, that would, in my opinion, be the most realistic and plausible way to see who grabs what. If we'd be going into specifics they could even be grabbing the 3d model of the object when standing up again, or you could even have a pop-up message saying what they picked up as well. But that tends to be somewhat spammy.