Critical hit

[Lachrymose]

Originally Posted by haraldsmith

I propose an anti-critical hit, that is your hit is a percentage lower then your lowest possible hit. I feel that this would provide balance to critical hits.

i'm afraid this would just increase the randomness, thus increasing the problem. say one guy's getting crits left and right, while the other guy is getting anti-crits like it was his job. this wouldn't solve anything.

[Lyllyth]

Well, one thing to consider.
"What is a Critical Hit?"

With health broken down into numbers, at what point would someone be incapacitated or dead?
In reality, someone can kill you with this itsy bitsy weapon commonly known as a Razor Blade, if the hit is in the right location. However, this is not reality, so we'll ignore that.

What is a Critical Hit? I think a Critical Hit is when you were just attempting to land a blow and managed to hit them "where it hurts". Take Boxing as an example, the boxer isn't usually thinking "this hit will knock him out", it's more of "an opening, swing!" Why did that hit knock the opponent out when the previous hits hardly seemed to phase him? It was a chance hit, right power, right speed, right angle, right movement of the opponent = a lot of damage. In this case the result is a knock out, not a "Player Death", but I'm sure you get where I'm going.
Would that qualify as a "Critical Hit"? To me, yes, that's pretty much what it comes down to.

Or take a sword duel, the person attacks the opponent's exposed leg in an attempt to injure the opponent, but severs the leg completely. Why? Right power, right speed, right angle, right movement of the opponent.

So, what is a Critical Hit? It's a blow landed with the right power, right speed, right angle, right movement of the opponent and does more damage than a blow common to that type of attack.

Should Critical Hits be in a game? Yes. But their frequency should be very low and not something that can be counted on, nor should abilities rely on them (ahem! I'm looking at you, Mr. Game-That-Must-Not-Be-Named).
The only thing that should affect the frequency of Critical Hits is, assuming the stat is in the game, Luck. Gear should not be stacked with it, stats other than Luck should not affect it, nor should there be any buffs that increase it. A Critical Hit is a chance hit (or "Luck Shot") that deals more damage than is typical to the attack.

[Cervelet]

I like the idea of enhanced damage for body parts option. I think hit boxes fully fit with a first person view game. And without that it could be a bit boring.... If you just spam your hit button without aiming or anything at all it gonna be tiresome with time....
But how will you aim the part of the body you want to it ? I think it won't be simple.

At the opposite i really hate the critical hits idea... This stuff is made for games with a poor gameplay, games you can play semi-afk with auto-attacks and so on.

So imo the best would be a combat system just like oblivion, really simple but much more immersive. Or a less simple one like boxe games (ie Fight Night) which is nearly the same but add some other possibilities ; evade, hit boxes, dodges, parry and the more important : counter attack which comes from the parry and dodge possibility.

[catmorbid]

Originally Posted by Lyllyth

Well, one thing to consider.
"What is a Critical Hit?"

With health broken down into numbers, at what point would someone be incapacitated or dead?
In reality, someone can kill you with this itsy bitsy weapon commonly known as a Razor Blade, if the hit is in the right location. However, this is not reality, so we'll ignore that.

What is a Critical Hit? I think a Critical Hit is when you were just attempting to land a blow and managed to hit them "where it hurts". Take Boxing as an example, the boxer isn't usually thinking "this hit will knock him out", it's more of "an opening, swing!" Why did that hit knock the opponent out when the previous hits hardly seemed to phase him? It was a chance hit, right power, right speed, right angle, right movement of the opponent = a lot of damage. In this case the result is a knock out, not a "Player Death", but I'm sure you get where I'm going.
Would that qualify as a "Critical Hit"? To me, yes, that's pretty much what it comes down to.

Or take a sword duel, the person attacks the opponent's exposed leg in an attempt to injure the opponent, but severs the leg completely. Why? Right power, right speed, right angle, right movement of the opponent.

So, what is a Critical Hit? It's a blow landed with the right power, right speed, right angle, right movement of the opponent and does more damage than a blow common to that type of attack.

Should Critical Hits be in a game? Yes. But their frequency should be very low and not something that can be counted on, nor should abilities rely on them (ahem! I'm looking at you, Mr. Game-That-Must-Not-Be-Named).
The only thing that should affect the frequency of Critical Hits is, assuming the stat is in the game, Luck. Gear should not be stacked with it, stats other than Luck should not affect it, nor should there be any buffs that increase it. A Critical Hit is a chance hit (or "Luck Shot") that deals more damage than is typical to the attack.

Damn, you just explained, what I've been trying to explain, in a very clear manner. Thank you. Now if someone would understand what you said... =D

I think intuition, if such a stat would be there, would have an effect on critical chance, and yes you're right that is should probably be pretty small chance. But...

What if the critical hit system would be more like it's real life counterpart, in the sense that you don't automatically get critical hits on random succesful hits, BUT instead you get critical opportunities. When a critical opportunity would come up, by chance, it would be actually skill based to actually, successfully deliver the critical blow. I'm not sure how the critical opportunities would work, but maybe something like, you get a critical opportunity for a short duration, say 5 seconds, and during that time you have to hit a randomly chosen body part, and if you hit, you get a critical.

It actually sounds a bit dumb, when said like that, but maybe it's not completely worthless as an idea?

[Lachrymose]

Originally Posted by Lyllyth

Well, one thing to consider.
"What is a Critical Hit?"

With health broken down into numbers, at what point would someone be incapacitated or dead?
In reality, someone can kill you with this itsy bitsy weapon commonly known as a Razor Blade, if the hit is in the right location. However, this is not reality, so we'll ignore that.

What is a Critical Hit? I think a Critical Hit is when you were just attempting to land a blow and managed to hit them "where it hurts". Take Boxing as an example, the boxer isn't usually thinking "this hit will knock him out", it's more of "an opening, swing!" Why did that hit knock the opponent out when the previous hits hardly seemed to phase him? It was a chance hit, right power, right speed, right angle, right movement of the opponent = a lot of damage. In this case the result is a knock out, not a "Player Death", but I'm sure you get where I'm going.
Would that qualify as a "Critical Hit"? To me, yes, that's pretty much what it comes down to.

Or take a sword duel, the person attacks the opponent's exposed leg in an attempt to injure the opponent, but severs the leg completely. Why? Right power, right speed, right angle, right movement of the opponent.

So, what is a Critical Hit? It's a blow landed with the right power, right speed, right angle, right movement of the opponent and does more damage than a blow common to that type of attack.

Should Critical Hits be in a game? Yes. But their frequency should be very low and not something that can be counted on, nor should abilities rely on them (ahem! I'm looking at you, Mr. Game-That-Must-Not-Be-Named).
The only thing that should affect the frequency of Critical Hits is, assuming the stat is in the game, Luck. Gear should not be stacked with it, stats other than Luck should not affect it, nor should there be any buffs that increase it. A Critical Hit is a chance hit (or "Luck Shot") that deals more damage than is typical to the attack.

sweet baby jesus.... i've never seen a reason to like crits (i hate the idea w/ a passion), but the way you describe them makes me almost think they're ok... almost.

but still, no crits pl0x!

[woodoo]

vote for no crits at all. random crit crap is just a payload for the underline code, sooner or later it will be balance issue.

[StingFeelsOnlyOnce]

If we are looking for playerskill based combat, it should be the bodyparts. I mean, if you have to aim to hit to neck to make massive damage rather than to "anywhere as long as it lands on at least their toe" It adds to the skill factor... And realism.

I hate it when it's just "You have 3.59996% change to hit critically, no matter how well you land your hit into their brain"

[Xyphon]

As with all MMORPGs, random number generators will have some part (be it large or small) on the outcome of any battle. However, the more that RNG can be limited, the better.

With that said, I'd like this game to stay away from the "X% chance" to get a critical hit, and focus on something that requires more skill and thought, such as doing more damage based on where you hit them.

[Lachrymose]

Originally Posted by Xyphon

As with all MMORPGs, random number generators will have some part (be it large or small) on the outcome of any battle. However, the more that RNG can be limited, the better.

With that said, I'd like this game to stay away from the "X% chance" to get a critical hit, and focus on something that requires more skill and thought, such as doing more damage based on where you hit them.

yes, me too. and fortunately devs have confirmed that hit boxes will be implemented. although, that doesn't necessarily mean random crits are out, but my guess is there won't be any crits.

[Rathius]

Crits certainly won't be neccessary.

What's going to be fun is those people that hate covering their character's head with a helmet becuase they wanna look good. Which I doubt it will be in, but I sure hope there's none of this "hide helmet" crap like I've been seing in games lately. Ah bonus damage points to the head, lol. *grins*

[Rhygar]

Originally Posted by Rathius

Crits certainly won't be neccessary.

What's going to be fun is those people that hate covering their character's head with a helmet becuase they wanna look good. Which I doubt it will be in, but I sure hope there's none of this "hide helmet" crap like I've been seing in games lately. Ah bonus damage points to the head, lol. *grins*

But I have such beautiful blonde hair! You will be depriving the whole community.

[Eldrek]

NO random crits please.. How does a random factor neither player has control of good for PvP in a skill based game? Too many times I've died to a critical when I otherwise would have won in team fortress 2, that wasn't too bad, because it only cost me a few seconds and respawn to do it again.. In a game where when you die you lose everything you're carrying though? Obsurd..

That's not to say some attacks should do more damage than others, just things that the players can control instead of a random number generator. for instance if a player chooses not to wear a helmet hitting his head should do massive damage and locational differences should be there anyway for different armors you're wearing on each part of the body (think that was already confirmed as a feature, not sure)

[Xyphon]

Eldrek, in ANY game, especially an RPG, there will be random chance involved in determining the outcome, no matter how large or miniscule that may be. I'm going to use World of Warcraft as my example because that's the only PvP MMO on my mind right now.

A Warrior can win any match by getting lucky Mace stun procs constantly. However, they can also lose a match just as easy by getting no procs. That is a terrible example for what I'm trying to get at: randomness determines outcomes in any computer program. Even if it is a skill based MMO where you determine when and where you hit, you're still affected by the randomness of how the latency of your client corresponds with the latency on the server which affects where you actually hit the guy.

With all that said: I agree with you :P. Critical hits adds a HUGE random element to the game that is best left out. I guess crits are such a major factor of today's games because people get bored of hitting for "100" every single time, whereas with crits they sometimes see "125" in big letters splash on their screen .

[Fr3skE]

Man I must say I love the idea. The body part is the 1 who should be ingame.

[Fr3skE]

OMG im srry I dident mean to spam that :S It dident showed up the first time I posted it. srry