Are the devs thinking about implementing navigation meshes for AI control in MO?

[Sorjak]

I'm not sure if this is a new article or not, but it certainly caught my eye. It seems like these navigation meshes are clearly the way to go in any new game.

http://www.ai-blog.net/archives/000152.html

[admiralnlson]

I don't know. Maybe the Unreal Engine 3 has something like this already, or a hybrid, or maybe even better?

[Sebastian Persson]

UE3 have a way point based navigation system yes, and yes that can lead to problems.
But to compensate it also uses a volume based navigation system, similar to the mesh-navigation you can see in that article, but it's only used for flying/swimming creatures since it's basically a big box and not a more complex navigation mesh.
For more info you can check out the unrealwiki.

UE3's navigation net is one of the best in the business, in UT2K4 they had a crazy amount of variables that could change how the bots reacted and what paths they used.
For example every time a bot died, it remember the spot it died at and if it died in a specific section of the map all the time it started taking other routes even if they were longer. The waypoint system has some problems but if you combine a sweet web-based system with some smart ai/good leveldesign it can really turn out very lifelike .

[Lialith]

A bot that remembers where it had died too often that really does sound funny! Next thing you know: It hacks into some us-army system, takes over a couple of nukes and BOM!

[Sebastian Persson]

Originally Posted by Lialith

A bot that remembers where it had died too often that really does sound funny! Next thing you know: It hacks into some us-army system, takes over a couple of nukes and BOM!

Hehehe that would be awesome, I spent a lot of time with the UT2k4 bots during my modding days, they had stuff like.. and angry-stat that made the bot more aggressive when it died a lot, and even a nemesis-system that made the bot pissed at a specific player after getting killed to many times by the same dude. The bot would then turn of some of it's "smarts" and start hunting down that single player to take out it's revenge instead of focusing on winning the match.

All of this was turned off when you played at higher difficulty-settings thou, so I guess a perfect player should have no feelings whatsoever.

[Lialith]

Now im really scared... ... :/

[Melathian]

...Skynet...Scarey reference :P.


As for the AI, I agree the the Unreal 3 Engine is amazing. I did some reading on what you posted because I always wondered why Mr. Crow would seem to come after me. lol. Now I know. Thank you for that

[Melathian]

...Additional thought...or question really.


How would this affect farming. I mean...could it be, that if the AI knew some player killed it often, it would re-act in a way that might end farming?

I'll admit I'm not an AI specialist or anything but is this possible? I mean it could really put a damper on farming...that would be amazing!

Perhaps these are the ramblings of a now SkyNet Paraniod mind *thanks Lialith... .* I'm just curious though.

[HunterKiller]

The revengful AI would be interesting as a feature if they added it but depending on the number of players per server that could be quite a lot of tracking going on.

[Lachrymose]

Originally Posted by HunterKiller

The revengful AI would be interesting as a feature if they added it but depending on the number of players per server that could be quite a lot of tracking going on.

as far as mobs hating specific characters, i don't think this is a viable option. but instead, specific mobs could start hating specific races. so if orcs killed goblins all the time, the goblins would displace their hatred towards all orcs.

also, i really like the idea that if mobs are getting killed in one place they avoid it. darkfall is implementing something like this. eventually certain species of mobs will move to a new location if they're constantly being hunted where they're currently living.

[Asmodeus]

As long as NPC's don't make 90 degree turns on horses I'm happy

[Surly]

Originally Posted by Sebastian Persson

Hehehe that would be awesome, I spent a lot of time with the UT2k4 bots during my modding days, they had stuff like.. and angry-stat that made the bot more aggressive when it died a lot, and even a nemesis-system that made the bot pissed at a specific player after getting killed to many times by the same dude. The bot would then turn of some of it's "smarts" and start hunting down that single player to take out it's revenge instead of focusing on winning the match.

All of this was turned off when you played at higher difficulty-settings thou, so I guess a perfect player should have no feelings whatsoever.

That sounds kind of counter-intuitive. If you keep getting killed by the same guy, it's logical that you and your teammates should try to kill him first. Every player can take the same amount of damage, killing the biggest threat is top priority.

Subtleties in AI behavior are so frequently overlooked because of overheads and the fear of making their behaviors too inefficient... I've always been of a mind that these erratic and unique behaviors are situational but overall more challenging than a mathematically purely efficient AI that can be predictable, though more rigidly logical. That's one of the biggest reasons AIs aren't fun to play against at the top level, they never throw you any curve balls.

Ah well, not like an MMO with such a focus on PvP and player-driven environments really needs an AI that strong. Players aren't really expecting anything more than idiot mobs that always move directly towards their "aggro" target and fight to the death with no variation whatsoever, so as long as you beat that stereotype you're at an advantage.

[Ravenwoods]

Originally Posted by Surly

Ah well, not like an MMO with such a focus on PvP and player-driven environments really needs an AI that strong. Players aren't really expecting anything more than idiot mobs that always move directly towards their "aggro" target and fight to the death with no variation whatsoever, so as long as you beat that stereotype you're at an advantage.

This is where a common mistake is made by many so called' PvP' players in their assumptions about so called 'PvE' players! While I appriciate a good PvP game that doesn't mean I wouldn't like some real awesome AI qualities from the mobs that are in caves nd dungeons like dragons and strange creatures since I enjoy hunting them as well. But if they are just hanging around in one place, waiting to be aggroed and completely mindless I get bored so quickly. I think after balanicng PvP and sorting out the main components of this game, devs should also spend some time on complex AI for it is also very crucial for the believability of the world.