Innovative uses for pets.

Jutsin · 5th August 2008, 06:08

I've never been into taming/pet characters on MMO's before (UO being the one with the most amount of possibilities, I believe), but I had a thought last night that could make me more open to the skillset..

Taming usually yields some pretty wicked bonuses at higher levels, normally when you can tame powerful creatures for fighting (dragons, wyrms, nightmares, etc in the days of UO). I imagine (in my limited wisdom) that this is the standard setup for taming/pets in most games.

My idea is this: lower level pets (the ones that people often forget about once their character has a higher skill) - eagles, wolves, dogs, etc should be given some additional helpful attributes so they remain useful at all levels of taming.

For example:

- a pet eagle could be sent out in a radius around your character to get an impression of what monsters/players are visible in the area.
- a pet wolf could be utilised to help track hidden or visible players within a radius around your character.

I haven't had much time to think of any other examples - so I figured I'd post to see if there were any others floating through people's heads.

Feedback appreciated, obviously

*Edit: Just a quick explanation about why I think this would be cool: this would allow characters who are not necessarily tamer purists (ie: a warrior or caster with minimal taming skill) to add a little more depth and strategy to the way they play through the use of pets.

Eknav · 5th August 2008, 08:43

I personally think "pets" need to be rethought altogether.

A "pet" can range from something you just take care of as a companion, that really serves no purpose other than, truly in game, aesthetics and role play. A small kitten, for example.

However, a "pet", more of a companion, a sidekick, even, could be precisely what you mentioned. Eagles can scout, and with magic you can view through their eyes to get a better glimpse of the terrain around you - Eagle Eye, if you wish. A wolf could track using its scent. Those ideas are awesome.

But let's take it even further. Why not have, at your home you've built, some dogs guarding your front door. A hawk to send messages back and forth between characters. Mules to haul items and objects on.

I don't think "taming" should be a "skill", per se, either. I think having that pet grow to respect and obey you, though, should be. Perhaps "taming" is the right word, but not how well you tame something at that moment so it immediately obeys you, but something that happens over time. (AKA: Not what WoW does.)

I like your ideas a lot, and hope the developers consider these things when thinking about pets/companions/etc.

Sanctus · 5th August 2008, 08:56

That would be a pretty interesting idea, exactly what a Pet System in an MMO needs, use for a pet other than just DPS. I'm really huge on strategy, which a lot of MMOs lack, but this game has drawn me in, and after hopping on the forums, I have been reading some really great ideas, and this is one of them.

I've often wondered why pets were just made to be cannon fodder, and I hated that, I like the idea of taming a pet, but I hated the idea that it was used just to attack (unless you were familiar with Rogue hunting in WoW) other than that, I didn't see much use in the pet, not only that, but they never did any real damage either.

I've also been thinking about the whole No Use For A Pet thing, I thought of a sort of linear growth to the pets along the lines of magical enhancing due to the strong bond between Pet and Master, like from a Wolf to a Worg or maybe a Wolf to a Dire Wolf, and having abilities that make it worthwhile to play a character that utilizes taming a pet.

I'm glad you brought it up, because I'm sure I would have never remembered it. The whole Animal->Dire Animal would also support those who favor the more traditional pets, like a wolf or a bear or heck, what about a Tellatubby and wreak havoc across the world MUAHAHA... Yeah, but for cerial, we need a little customization with pets, the whole "Sickem boy!" just doesn't cut it anymore, I mean come on, shouldn't I be able to throw a ball and have my favorite Dire Wolf, Meowmix, fetch it for me? =)

Just my two cents.

Lyllyth · 5th August 2008, 09:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eknav

(AKA: Not what WoW does.)

Oh, like this?

Eknav · 5th August 2008, 09:46

Oh yeah, a point I nearly missed! Thank you Sanctus for bringing it up.

Yes, pets need customization! I must slightly disagree with pets going from a "normal mode" and then "leveling up" to a "dire mode", though. I would prefer to see natural, stimulated by the owner, growth into something bigger and better. Simply a wolf pup to a full grown wolf, dire or the like. Not necessarially a "level up! Huzzah!" per se.

However, I completely agree with you that there needs to be customization amongst pets.

Armors, weapons, colorization and commands/responses. All particular, at least for the most part, to that set of owner and pet.

I suppose I am describing a system extraordinarily familiar to Fable II's... Well, that's a good system, so I think MO should hijack that. :B

EDIT: Precisely, Lyllyth! Egad that's garbage. Funny comic, but it just shows how lacking the pet system in WoW is! Oof!

Sanctus · 5th August 2008, 14:02

Quote:

I must slightly disagree with pets going from a "normal mode" and then "leveling up" to a "dire mode", though.

You misunderstand me, that's fine though I was halfway asleep when I typed that up...

I didn't mean to infer that I suggest pets have a level up system like that, I was refering to the linear growth, kind of like what you just said, from a pup to a full grown wolf, a Dire Wolf from then. A true bond between master and pet wouldn't stunt the growth of any particular animal, the animal just keeps growing in scale with the tamer.

Tenclaw · 5th August 2008, 14:14

A bit more realistical animals would do it for me.
Ever noticed how easy it is to kill - say a tiger or a bear - in a mmo?
Ever seen a tiger (bear) up close?
It would rip you apart even if you do have armor and some sword...
they are dangerous animals... very dangerous...

so let us tame dogs or small animals like ferrets and hawks at first...
and tigers when our skill is really high...

I would like a system where a dog would give you a bonus to tracking (maybe it is turning its head to something it hears and starts to growl, indicating that someone I cant hear is coming...

let me train a ferret to steal small things like keys or something...
they can squeeze in the smallest openings...
A hawk for hunting rabbits...
things like that...

Zigkirby · 5th August 2008, 14:50

I'm against combat pets in MO, the whole idea of an autoattacking pet in a real time swing environment just ruins it for me. I guess it wouldn't be that bad if the pet actually -dies- when it's killed, that makes them a lot more precious. I do, however, love the idea of pets being used out of combat for a skill relevant to what animal they are.

Eknav · 5th August 2008, 21:54

Ah, then Sanctus, +1 to you!

That's good to hear, and sorry for misunderstanding. :B

Tenclaw, I agree. Animals of the wild have never been very dangerous in MMOs. They never behave the way they naturally do, either. They don't hunt in packs, they don't tackle and go for the throat. They just stand near you and claw at you. It's pathetic.

Auto-attacking pets? If MO does the previous correctly, I think combat pets would be interesting - especially if when they die, they die. I had assumed that was going to be the case already, though...the idea of "ressurecting" an animal/beast didn't even cross my mind. xD

I don't want them to auto-attack. Distract, hunt, prowl, tackle, swipe - not to be the main fighter in the battle. "Release the hounds!" And dogs come, tackle people, and go for their throat. You have to use your hands or weapon to either snap the dogs' necks or cut them/bash them. Now that evolves into a lot of...well, time and coding...I am sure. But I truly just don't want to see: Tiger walks right up to your front, in broad day light, swings paw, swings paw again, swings paw again, bites, swings paw, swings paw again, bites, and then you kill it from continuously swinging your sword and only taking...1/5 of your health as damage. :/

MO isn't that, though, so I doubt we'll see a system like that.

Sanctus · 6th August 2008, 00:20

Quote:

Ever noticed how easy it is to kill - say a tiger or a bear - in a mmo?
Ever seen a tiger (bear) up close?
It would rip you apart even if you do have armor and some sword...
they are dangerous animals... very dangerous...

Yeah that's something that I would really hope they develope upon, for example, just the other day I was sporting cloth armor +1, and out of no where the family cat attacks me, I got destroyed needless to say... if a housecat can do that, I shudder at what a tiger could do =P But in all honesty, yeah, the whole, "Hmm, I feel an itch pawing at my leg, I'm going to ignore it!" needs to be fixed, make the pet an actual part of the character, not just an addon plx.

About the auto-attacking thing, yeah, the paw-paw-bit-paw-paw thing is repetitive and unnatural. It may seem like way to much to do, but I would really like to see a smart AI system for pets, i.e., my pet sees my enemy is focused on me (targeted me I guess) then he would circle around and flank him or if I am about to die, it would do a suicide dive to save me or something. When has ANYONE ever seen a Tiger prance right on up to it's prey? Never, that's right, because it just doesn't happen, they circle their prey, waiting for the opportune moment to strike.

I'm not to familiar with coding, so I don't know exactly how hard it would be to do, I'm guessing pretty darn hard, but it would put more of a realistic spin on the game.

dahankus · 6th August 2008, 05:03

Grat ideas, but as you guesed it would be hard to implement. I think that the pet system should focus more on use than look, like in other mmo's. it is not too complicated to make a dog indicate that there is a foe near. that would be the use for the dog, you know, keep it simple but usefull. Its better if the devs concentrate on more important aspects of the game.

PS. I hope that one day we see a game in which all the stuff we can possibly imagine to do, is possible.

cheers

Eknav · 7th August 2008, 00:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by dahankus

keep it simple but usefull.

QFT.

That's what the pet system needs: Simple, but useful, but not so simple that it's just an auto-attacking DPS buff. >_>; Usefulness/skills outweigh raw numbers.

Lachrymose · 7th August 2008, 02:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zigkirby

I'm against combat pets in MO, the whole idea of an autoattacking pet in a real time swing environment just ruins it for me. I guess it wouldn't be that bad if the pet actually -dies- when it's killed, that makes them a lot more precious. I do, however, love the idea of pets being used out of combat for a skill relevant to what animal they are.

couldn't agree more. auto-attacking npc pets would entirely defeat the purpose of a collision based pvp system. i really like the ideas the OP mentioned, like using eagles to scout, wolves to track, etc.

from a pve standpoint, i've always liked playing a tamer class, so i hate to see it taken out altogether like in darkfall. so having pets serve purposes other than raw dps would be a great addition. sheeps could produce wool for tailors, chickens could lay eggs for cooks, and various other crafter-friendly creatures.

also, it'd be cool to breed pets. i always wanted a pet liger.

Jutsin · 8th August 2008, 03:07

Now that I'm thinking about pets a little more, I have to agree with some of the above posters that having auto-attacking combat pets will "ruin" the style MO is going for.

I think that if pets can be used for combat, there needs to be more player interaction to make it happen - that way it's not as simple as getting a couple of higher "level" pets and letting them do the work for you.

5th August 2008, 06:08	#1 (permalink)
Jutsin Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Adelaide, Australia Age: 23 Posts: 62 Rep Power: 0	Innovative uses for pets. I've never been into taming/pet characters on MMO's before (UO being the one with the most amount of possibilities, I believe), but I had a thought last night that could make me more open to the skillset.. Taming usually yields some pretty wicked bonuses at higher levels, normally when you can tame powerful creatures for fighting (dragons, wyrms, nightmares, etc in the days of UO). I imagine (in my limited wisdom) that this is the standard setup for taming/pets in most games. My idea is this: lower level pets (the ones that people often forget about once their character has a higher skill) - eagles, wolves, dogs, etc should be given some additional helpful attributes so they remain useful at all levels of taming. For example: - a pet eagle could be sent out in a radius around your character to get an impression of what monsters/players are visible in the area. - a pet wolf could be utilised to help track hidden or visible players within a radius around your character. I haven't had much time to think of any other examples - so I figured I'd post to see if there were any others floating through people's heads. Feedback appreciated, obviously Edit: Just a quick explanation about why I think this would be cool: this would allow characters who are not necessarily tamer purists (ie: a warrior or caster with minimal taming skill) to add a little more depth and strategy to the way they play through the use of pets. Last edited by Jutsin : 5th August 2008 at 06:12.*

6th August 2008, 05:03	#11 (permalink)
dahankus Newbie Join Date: May 2008 Location: Poland Posts: 13 Rep Power: 1	Grat ideas, but as you guesed it would be hard to implement. I think that the pet system should focus more on use than look, like in other mmo's. it is not too complicated to make a dog indicate that there is a foe near. that would be the use for the dog, you know, keep it simple but usefull. Its better if the devs concentrate on more important aspects of the game. PS. I hope that one day we see a game in which all the stuff we can possibly imagine to do, is possible. cheers __________________

5th August 2008, 08:43	#2 (permalink)
Eknav Newbie Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 42 Rep Power: 1	I personally think "pets" need to be rethought altogether. A "pet" can range from something you just take care of as a companion, that really serves no purpose other than, truly in game, aesthetics and role play. A small kitten, for example. However, a "pet", more of a companion, a sidekick, even, could be precisely what you mentioned. Eagles can scout, and with magic you can view through their eyes to get a better glimpse of the terrain around you - Eagle Eye, if you wish. A wolf could track using its scent. Those ideas are awesome. But let's take it even further. Why not have, at your home you've built, some dogs guarding your front door. A hawk to send messages back and forth between characters. Mules to haul items and objects on. I don't think "taming" should be a "skill", per se, either. I think having that pet grow to respect and obey you, though, should be. Perhaps "taming" is the right word, but not how well you tame something at that moment so it immediately obeys you, but something that happens over time. (AKA: Not what WoW does.) I like your ideas a lot, and hope the developers consider these things when thinking about pets/companions/etc.

5th August 2008, 08:56	#3 (permalink)
Sanctus Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 27 Rep Power: 1	That would be a pretty interesting idea, exactly what a Pet System in an MMO needs, use for a pet other than just DPS. I'm really huge on strategy, which a lot of MMOs lack, but this game has drawn me in, and after hopping on the forums, I have been reading some really great ideas, and this is one of them. I've often wondered why pets were just made to be cannon fodder, and I hated that, I like the idea of taming a pet, but I hated the idea that it was used just to attack (unless you were familiar with Rogue hunting in WoW) other than that, I didn't see much use in the pet, not only that, but they never did any real damage either. I've also been thinking about the whole No Use For A Pet thing, I thought of a sort of linear growth to the pets along the lines of magical enhancing due to the strong bond between Pet and Master, like from a Wolf to a Worg or maybe a Wolf to a Dire Wolf, and having abilities that make it worthwhile to play a character that utilizes taming a pet. I'm glad you brought it up, because I'm sure I would have never remembered it. The whole Animal->Dire Animal would also support those who favor the more traditional pets, like a wolf or a bear or heck, what about a Tellatubby and wreak havoc across the world MUAHAHA... Yeah, but for cerial, we need a little customization with pets, the whole "Sickem boy!" just doesn't cut it anymore, I mean come on, shouldn't I be able to throw a ball and have my favorite Dire Wolf, Meowmix, fetch it for me? =) Just my two cents.

5th August 2008, 09:46	#5 (permalink)
Eknav Newbie Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 42 Rep Power: 1	Oh yeah, a point I nearly missed! Thank you Sanctus for bringing it up. Yes, pets need customization! I must slightly disagree with pets going from a "normal mode" and then "leveling up" to a "dire mode", though. I would prefer to see natural, stimulated by the owner, growth into something bigger and better. Simply a wolf pup to a full grown wolf, dire or the like. Not necessarially a "level up! Huzzah!" per se. However, I completely agree with you that there needs to be customization amongst pets. Armors, weapons, colorization and commands/responses. All particular, at least for the most part, to that set of owner and pet. I suppose I am describing a system extraordinarily familiar to Fable II's... Well, that's a good system, so I think MO should hijack that. :B EDIT: Precisely, Lyllyth! Egad that's garbage. Funny comic, but it just shows how lacking the pet system in WoW is! Oof!

5th August 2008, 14:14	#7 (permalink)
Tenclaw Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 64 Rep Power: 1	A bit more realistical animals would do it for me. Ever noticed how easy it is to kill - say a tiger or a bear - in a mmo? Ever seen a tiger (bear) up close? It would rip you apart even if you do have armor and some sword... they are dangerous animals... very dangerous... so let us tame dogs or small animals like ferrets and hawks at first... and tigers when our skill is really high... I would like a system where a dog would give you a bonus to tracking (maybe it is turning its head to something it hears and starts to growl, indicating that someone I cant hear is coming... let me train a ferret to steal small things like keys or something... they can squeeze in the smallest openings... A hawk for hunting rabbits... things like that...

5th August 2008, 14:50	#8 (permalink)
Zigkirby Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Detroit, Michigan Posts: 335 Rep Power: 0	I'm against combat pets in MO, the whole idea of an autoattacking pet in a real time swing environment just ruins it for me. I guess it wouldn't be that bad if the pet actually -dies- when it's killed, that makes them a lot more precious. I do, however, love the idea of pets being used out of combat for a skill relevant to what animal they are.

5th August 2008, 21:54	#9 (permalink)
Eknav Newbie Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 42 Rep Power: 1	Ah, then Sanctus, +1 to you! That's good to hear, and sorry for misunderstanding. :B Tenclaw, I agree. Animals of the wild have never been very dangerous in MMOs. They never behave the way they naturally do, either. They don't hunt in packs, they don't tackle and go for the throat. They just stand near you and claw at you. It's pathetic. Auto-attacking pets? If MO does the previous correctly, I think combat pets would be interesting - especially if when they die, they die. I had assumed that was going to be the case already, though...the idea of "ressurecting" an animal/beast didn't even cross my mind. xD I don't want them to auto-attack. Distract, hunt, prowl, tackle, swipe - not to be the main fighter in the battle. "Release the hounds!" And dogs come, tackle people, and go for their throat. You have to use your hands or weapon to either snap the dogs' necks or cut them/bash them. Now that evolves into a lot of...well, time and coding...I am sure. But I truly just don't want to see: Tiger walks right up to your front, in broad day light, swings paw, swings paw again, swings paw again, bites, swings paw, swings paw again, bites, and then you kill it from continuously swinging your sword and only taking...1/5 of your health as damage. :/ MO isn't that, though, so I doubt we'll see a system like that.

8th August 2008, 03:07	#14 (permalink)
Jutsin Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Adelaide, Australia Age: 23 Posts: 62 Rep Power: 0	Now that I'm thinking about pets a little more, I have to agree with some of the above posters that having auto-attacking combat pets will "ruin" the style MO is going for. I think that if pets can be used for combat, there needs to be more player interaction to make it happen - that way it's not as simple as getting a couple of higher "level" pets and letting them do the work for you.