Collision Detection?

[nerosevengen]

In my opinion, one of the more important features to any great combat based game is collision detection. Not only to add realism, it forces players to adapt to their environment. We all have played games in whcih players can run straight through their opponent as if each were intangible...games like City of Heroes/Villains have collision detection and it just makes the game more fun.

On the downside, collision detection can wreak havoc with server performance, especially in mass combat...

Anyway, I would like to see it in the game.

[Surly]

Yeah, it's probably the most important innovation in the evolution of MMO large scale combat.

[Rathius]

I agree, collision detection should certainly be on. Normally, I'd say you have to have some sort of time to where you can eventually pass through players, incase they're blocking paths.. But since it's open pvp, you can always attack them. I'm sure they'll move then, heh.

[Jutsin]

Collision detection is a must, in my opinion.

I do think some way of passing through characters should be possible though (for strategic reasons, and to combat blockers/griefers). Some quick examples of a way to do this:

AoC - "Crouch" to move through players (but while crouching you do less damage and take more damage).

UO - Full stamina means you can push through someone .. but pushing through someone removes a small amount of stamina, so you can't do it over and over again, and you can only do it if you plan it correctly (getting the right timing or using stamina refresh potions).

[Voltmeer]

Agreed, collision detection brings combat and submersion to a whole new level. The tactics that have to be used when a game doesn't have collision is so artificial. I have always hated the concept of taunting...aggro control by tanks is better served by using positioning, attacks that affect movment/balance and increased hate/threat when a tank is attacking from behind.

[Lialith]

i totally agree... well, the performance problem is still a serious point and should not be underestimated. :/ if i had to choose between good performance in crowded areas or collision detection, i think in that case i could accept that there is no collision detection though...

[golani79]

I´d like to see collision detection too in MO.

It was kinda interesting in AoC (first MMO with CD for me) - although I dont play AoC at the moment I liked the system and I am missing collision detection in Lotro.
CD could be a good thing for RP too.

Everytime a guy runs/rides through my Avatar in Lotro I am pissed off - no one except a few role playing players cares where you are standing/going and they just run through your body as if you were a ghost.
That sucks!

I think there would be more atmosphere in the game when players are not able to run through the other players.

[Phi]

when i used to play world of snorecraft it would piss me of that pets could run straight through my party members and attack me.

[ketrine]

you could also have temporary collision. You would bump into someone, then walk through them after a few seconds. This would make it possible to block places with multiple players standing there, but not forever.

[Lachrymose]

Originally Posted by ketrine

you could also have temporary collision. You would bump into someone, then walk through them after a few seconds. This would make it possible to block places with multiple players standing there, but not forever.

yes, there would definitely have to be a way to get through people. other than killing them and stepping over their body of course.

if you had enough stamina, you should be able to just push them out of the way. or even better, there could be a push action that you could use on someone without it being considered an aggressive attack.

[Blahman]

I would like to see Red Faction:Guerrilla-esque player physics, collisions, momentum, living ragdolls (physics-based knockdown but not necessarily lethal), animation blending, etc. Would make the melee game SO much more interactive and convincing.

[Phi]

just turn CD off in towns, if someone is blocking you in the open world kill them or be killed, it is open pvp

[ccoa]

Yup, I'm all for CD. I remember in AoC there was the stream bridge in conalls valley and a couple friends and I sat there (me on a mammoth) and made people pay us to pass or we just killed them. Though there was that longer route down the waterfall and around we still got quite a few customers.

I do think that it adds great realism and tactics aswell. But it really needs to be implemented right. I mean you can always squeeze through people in real life.

[Lialith]

I want to be able to built walls with the corpses of other players!! ;D

[Lachrymose]

Originally Posted by Phi

just turn CD off in towns, if someone is blocking you in the open world kill them or be killed, it is open pvp

i'm sure they wouldn't allow you to simply turn CD off, so that's not really an option. also, keep in mind, there will be some consequences to just killing everyone you see, so some players may not find this option viable.

[Kaoy]

Originally Posted by Voltmeer

Agreed, collision detection brings combat and submersion to a whole new level. The tactics that have to be used when a game doesn't have collision is so artificial. I have always hated the concept of taunting...aggro control by tanks is better served by using positioning, attacks that affect movment/balance and increased hate/threat when a tank is attacking from behind.

I have always been for CD in games, but the idea of possition based aggro control is a great one I hadn't even though of. As for what Lil said about building a wall of bodies, it's a fun idea, but I think it would depend on wether or not you have to find your body while wonderint through the Ether Realm to go back to it.

[Whisperkiller]

Originally Posted by ketrine

you could also have temporary collision. You would bump into someone, then walk through them after a few seconds. This would make it possible to block places with multiple players standing there, but not forever.

OMG what a bunch of carebears! The amount of sheer ignorance in this thread is appalling? Why does there have to be some way to get through a charachter that is blocking your path? There is one real life possible action thats peacable and one thats not....push him if hes in your way and if that doesnt work pull out your blade and cut the bastard down! Seriously people don't try to water down a mechanic just to make your lives easier....that is the major problem with MMO's these days...if you guys want to carebear and have your game handed to you on a silver platter then be my guest and go back to Warcraft. This is a simple mechanic that Darkfall has instituted and only makes sense to have in a Sandbox PVP world like Mortal Online...it sounds to me like some of you have never played UO so that means you don't know what has been lost in the world of MMO's. Lose the carebear at the door and do not expect things to be handed to you. Either have it in the game or don't....but if you have full CD in...that makes things like phalanx units blocking a valley is actually a viable form of defense meaning that your choice of weapons and armour are important. you take out something as simple as collision detection or making it watered down like AoC then it loses its importance. Personally I hope they don't put any gay ass crap like crouching to pass CD...I find it highly unlikely that people would be able to pass through a wall of tower shielded phalanx with spears just by crouching....even if they WERE taking damage. Bottom line is...CD has way more implications than the carebears suggest...some of us want all out war....with tactics and logistics and strategy. CD is a vital element that can cause much bigger things to happen and if your too stupid to find a way around the fat ass in the tin can armour, then PLEEEEEEEASE go back to playing whatever carebear game it was you were playing before you posted here.

[Whisperkiller]

Originally Posted by Kaoy

I have always been for CD in games, but the idea of possition based aggro control is a great one I hadn't even though of. As for what Lil said about building a wall of bodies, it's a fun idea, but I think it would depend on wether or not you have to find your body while wonderint through the Ether Realm to go back to it.

Isnt aggro control kind of lessened in importance in a game that relies on skills instead of classes? Seems to me that tanking ability is kind of moot when theres no tank to do the tanking.

[Lachrymose]

Originally Posted by Whisperkiller

OMG what a bunch of carebears! The amount of sheer ignorance in this thread is appalling? Why does there have to be some way to get through a charachter that is blocking your path? There is one real life possible action thats peacable and one thats not....push him if hes in your way and if that doesnt work pull out your blade and cut the bastard down! Seriously people don't try to water down a mechanic just to make your lives easier....that is the major problem with MMO's these days...if you guys want to carebear and have your game handed to you on a silver platter then be my guest and go back to Warcraft. This is a simple mechanic that Darkfall has instituted and only makes sense to have in a Sandbox PVP world like Mortal Online...it sounds to me like some of you have never played UO so that means you don't know what has been lost in the world of MMO's. Lose the carebear at the door and do not expect things to be handed to you. Either have it in the game or don't....but if you have full CD in...that makes things like phalanx units blocking a valley is actually a viable form of defense meaning that your choice of weapons and armour are important. you take out something as simple as collision detection or making it watered down like AoC then it loses its importance. Personally I hope they don't put any gay ass crap like crouching to pass CD...I find it highly unlikely that people would be able to pass through a wall of tower shielded phalanx with spears just by crouching....even if they WERE taking damage. Bottom line is...CD has way more implications than the carebears suggest...some of us want all out war....with tactics and logistics and strategy. CD is a vital element that can cause much bigger things to happen and if your too stupid to find a way around the fat ass in the tin can armour, then PLEEEEEEEASE go back to playing whatever carebear game it was you were playing before you posted here.

welcome to the forums.

CD is great, but there needs to be some way to bypass it. you can't always just kill someone for getting in your way. what happens when you're in town and as you head towards the door of the bank, someone stops his character right in the doorway. if you can't get through him somehow, and you certainly can't kill him in a town otherwise you'll get guard whacked, then you've got a problem on your hands, and the other guy is having the time of his life griefing you.

the UO system worked just fine. as long as you had enough stamina, you could push through them. that way, when you're in town, you'll most likely have enough stamina to push through some joker that tries to block your path, but if you're in battle, your stamina will be low from fighting, so pushing through someone may not be an option, and thus a phalanx strategy would be much more viable.

[Veith]

For a realtime combatstyle similar to M&B CD is nearly a must if it wants really to be realtimecombat.
So i assume devs want a 'real' realtimecombat style and so CD is not only a suggestion more a serious demand.

[Sleeping with the fishes]

Yes, FULL CD please!
Pretty please with sugar on the top!

[patamon]

yes it will be realy good to have the posibility to protect for example mages aro weaker charaKTER EVEN WITH YOUR BODY..

[Whisperkiller]

Originally Posted by Lachrymose

welcome to the forums.

CD is great, but there needs to be some way to bypass it. you can't always just kill someone for getting in your way. what happens when you're in town and as you head towards the door of the bank, someone stops his character right in the doorway. if you can't get through him somehow, and you certainly can't kill him in a town otherwise you'll get guard whacked, then you've got a problem on your hands, and the other guy is having the time of his life griefing you.

the UO system worked just fine. as long as you had enough stamina, you could push through them. that way, when you're in town, you'll most likely have enough stamina to push through some joker that tries to block your path, but if you're in battle, your stamina will be low from fighting, so pushing through someone may not be an option, and thus a phalanx strategy would be much more viable.

This is basically the whole point of my original post...I suggest a push maneuver that would push people out of the way. I realize blocking pathways is an issue, but its a realistic problem/mechanic that should have no watering down. The push maneuver isn't watering down....its being realistic. You can affect them unlike the AoC style crouching. A way to teach tem a lesson for parking their fat asses in the doorway is needed....not a way to bypass them.

Edit: As a side note pickpocketting would be good in this situation too...park your ass in the doorway and go afk and you should be pushed and pickpocketed. how many people would make this a habbit?

[Eldrek]

If someone is blocking an entrance or ect, you could attack them or simply push them out of the way (if you're in a guard patrolled area, you don't want trouble with them

[twistedurges]

I definitely see collision detection being crucial in MO. We're talking about a real-time combat game, not some WoW clone. I want to see how they can apply the Unreal technology. Think about how awesome it would be to have 2 walls of fighters clash into each other. The strategic effect collision has can change the way the game is played completely. The classic "300" scenario definitely comes to mind.

A good way to stop players from abusing this would be to implement a "push" mechanic. No one would try and block buildings if they knew they could be nudged back.

I can't wait for more details about the gameplay/features Graphics are so unimportant in the MMO world, especially when they are outdated a year after release. The features and gameplay are what people will come back to when you're talking about at least a 5 year run of a game.

[ccoa]

Well, in a FFA PvP environment I think you would think twice before blocking a path at risk of being killed and looted. Though a push command in cities would be nice, or maybe even a combat ablitity that knocks people down and possibly a counter skill that makes you less likely to be knocked down.

[twistedurges]

Well in a FFA PvP environment, holding a line should be a legitimate and valuable tactic. And you have a great point, even if you could, what chance are you going to get to push someone on a battlefield with 10 axes getting swung at you? It seems to balance itself out.

I do like the idea of a "balance" type skill.