Maps with player interaction (and interference)

Heliopios · 19th August 2008, 00:55

Say the game just got released, everyone's raring to go, etc first day jitters. Would the first map out there (I assume there's going to be a map of some sort sold by a vendor) have all of the countries and political boundaries? I say it shouldn't, and allow players to fill the maps out themselves.

Say the first person to go exploring brings a map, and starts marking down major landmarks and notable features 'Lake Garbaflar', 'Mount Doom' and then brought it back to someone who has the ability to reproduce this map (A cartographer), this cartographer starts selling the map for a nominal fee for those people too lazy to make their own map, and in time, a map with large amounts of detail on features and where boundaries are (which are constantly changing, I assume).

I figure that it'd add alot of immersion to the game by allowing player interaction with maps and exploring.

But, there'd be a down side as well, as some would probably produce knock-off maps at the beginning to get profits from people who think that these maps are genuine, which would as well be a nice thing to see.

I'm not sure if this is a question, suggestion, or discussion, so take it as you want.

Reverend Mundane · 19th August 2008, 02:11

All kind of cartography and mapping related features in the game would be nice, but you have to remember that shortly after beta goes live, you will have fairly detailed map available for anyone somewhere online. That will make lot of stuff irrelevant right away.

(UO had something like treasure maps? How did they work?)

Heliopios · 19th August 2008, 02:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Mundane

All kind of cartography and mapping related features in the game would be nice, but you have to remember that shortly after beta goes live, you will have fairly detailed map available for anyone somewhere online. That will make lot of stuff irrelevant right away.

A respectable person doesn't use that Metagame 3rd party bullshit, though.

Reverend Mundane · 19th August 2008, 02:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heliopios

A respectable person doesn't use that Metagame 3rd party bullshit, though.

Maybe... but you should avoid game design decisions that cripple your 'respectable players'. And online map sounds like something that almost everyone would use if the ingame one is somehow lacking or tedious to use.

Shinzon · 19th August 2008, 07:37

Quote:

A respectable person doesn't use that Metagame 3rd party bullshit, though.

Doesn't mean it wont be used, as nice as the feature is; it is rendered redundunt by the fact that the internet is open to everyone, and information on it tends to want to be free.

Heliopios · 19th August 2008, 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shinzon

Doesn't mean it wont be used, as nice as the feature is; it is rendered redundunt by the fact that the internet is open to everyone, and information on it tends to want to be free.

With that mindset, we shouldn't even have skills, or any type of player interaction since someone will hack the game or make a Headbot of sorts.

SkirmCard · 19th August 2008, 20:55

I just posted in another thread right next to this one saying that I would love to find a way around the mapping problem of information being posted online. One idea i had (albeit a weak one) was to add some randomness to each mapmakers map due to the fact that everyone sees everything differently. Also the dev's can hide certain things and make them pop up later ( like caves or spawn grounds) using the excuse that the original explorers of the land just looked it over/didn't see it.

Also cartography could be used for things like the UO treasure maps, where if you have the map you can go find the treasure (but only you), but you need a high cartography skill to read it or need someone else with a high cartography skill to read it for you.

Anyone out there have any ideas to get around this problem? Or is cartography a dead skill never to be used again?

ccoa · 19th August 2008, 22:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkirmCard

I just posted in another thread right next to this one saying that I would love to find a way around the mapping problem of information being posted online. One idea i had (albeit a weak one) was to add some randomness to each mapmakers map due to the fact that everyone sees everything differently. Also the dev's can hide certain things and make them pop up later ( like caves or spawn grounds) using the excuse that the original explorers of the land just looked it over/didn't see it.

Also cartography could be used for things like the UO treasure maps, where if you have the map you can go find the treasure (but only you), but you need a high cartography skill to read it or need someone else with a high cartography skill to read it for you.

Anyone out there have any ideas to get around this problem? Or is cartography a dead skill never to be used again?

Well, randomness to maps would be nice. As for treasure maps how about not make them maps, but more riddles or something like that. And make every map/riddle unique and only a one time thing that way people don't get the same thing and just look for the answers online.

Shinzon · 20th August 2008, 06:58

Quote:

With that mindset, we shouldn't even have skills, or any type of player interaction since someone will hack the game or make a Headbot of sorts.

A bot is not information. A headbot or any type of glider is a cheat. Skills that rely pureley on information will quickly get catalouged online, on massive databases. It has nothing to do with attitude, it is about creating features that will be redundant or by passable entierley.

Player interaction is not hindered by the free flow of information through 3rd party sources. Skills should be designed in such a way that the limit the direct amount of information a database can provide.

osteo · 20th August 2008, 19:20

very well put shinzon. So you are saying they should do away cartography?

Shinzon · 21st August 2008, 06:17

There is nothing wrong with players creating maps or something of the like, like writing books, I am just saying that after a certain point the most common "Geographical" map will become common information on the internet. That still leaves the opportunity of players creating resource maps and the like, and depending on the resource replenishment system used, they could also become common information through the internet.

That is also the same problem with using a recepie based system, eventualy, all of the recepeies are also catalouged.

Now wether this is a bad or a good thing is another debate all together.

Cartography should have uses beyond the simple "Draw a map of where you are"

osteo · 30th August 2008, 18:26

touche

ya thats pretty much what i was saying as well. I think we the player should be able to make a map. Then on top of that we can write what whatever we want and whereever we want on that map follow me on this one. If you are in a guild and you just made a house. For some reason you werent able to meet up with that person cuz you had to log off. You could make a map of where your house is. You make a map of the surrounding area. then you circle on the map where your house is.

Rathius · 30th August 2008, 21:19

I just had a grand idea.... battle plans. The cartographer can draft up maps with the battle plans on them to give them to leaders. These wouldn't be things popping up on the internet because they would be for very specific and mostly one time purposes.

Then, you also have the chance that the battle plans can be stolen by an enemy faction. Or even laying false maps around.

19th August 2008, 00:55	#1 (permalink)
Heliopios Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Spokane, Washington, USA Posts: 347 Rep Power: 1	Maps with player interaction (and interference) Say the game just got released, everyone's raring to go, etc first day jitters. Would the first map out there (I assume there's going to be a map of some sort sold by a vendor) have all of the countries and political boundaries? I say it shouldn't, and allow players to fill the maps out themselves. Say the first person to go exploring brings a map, and starts marking down major landmarks and notable features 'Lake Garbaflar', 'Mount Doom' and then brought it back to someone who has the ability to reproduce this map (A cartographer), this cartographer starts selling the map for a nominal fee for those people too lazy to make their own map, and in time, a map with large amounts of detail on features and where boundaries are (which are constantly changing, I assume). I figure that it'd add alot of immersion to the game by allowing player interaction with maps and exploring. But, there'd be a down side as well, as some would probably produce knock-off maps at the beginning to get profits from people who think that these maps are genuine, which would as well be a nice thing to see. I'm not sure if this is a question, suggestion, or discussion, so take it as you want.

19th August 2008, 20:55	#7 (permalink)
SkirmCard Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Reno, Nevada Age: 25 Posts: 238 Rep Power: 1	I just posted in another thread right next to this one saying that I would love to find a way around the mapping problem of information being posted online. One idea i had (albeit a weak one) was to add some randomness to each mapmakers map due to the fact that everyone sees everything differently. Also the dev's can hide certain things and make them pop up later ( like caves or spawn grounds) using the excuse that the original explorers of the land just looked it over/didn't see it. Also cartography could be used for things like the UO treasure maps, where if you have the map you can go find the treasure (but only you), but you need a high cartography skill to read it or need someone else with a high cartography skill to read it for you. Anyone out there have any ideas to get around this problem? Or is cartography a dead skill never to be used again? __________________

21st August 2008, 06:17	#11 (permalink)
Shinzon Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Toronto, Ontario Age: 19 Posts: 940 Rep Power: 3	There is nothing wrong with players creating maps or something of the like, like writing books, I am just saying that after a certain point the most common "Geographical" map will become common information on the internet. That still leaves the opportunity of players creating resource maps and the like, and depending on the resource replenishment system used, they could also become common information through the internet. That is also the same problem with using a recepie based system, eventualy, all of the recepeies are also catalouged. Now wether this is a bad or a good thing is another debate all together. Cartography should have uses beyond the simple "Draw a map of where you are" __________________ www.aegis-imperium.com

30th August 2008, 21:19	#13 (permalink)
Rathius Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Kansas Age: 24 Posts: 445 Rep Power: 1	I just had a grand idea.... battle plans. The cartographer can draft up maps with the battle plans on them to give them to leaders. These wouldn't be things popping up on the internet because they would be for very specific and mostly one time purposes. Then, you also have the chance that the battle plans can be stolen by an enemy faction. Or even laying false maps around. __________________ (Explorer 80, Killer 53, Achiever 33, Socializer 33)

19th August 2008, 02:11	#2 (permalink)
Reverend Mundane Newbie Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 47 Rep Power: 1	All kind of cartography and mapping related features in the game would be nice, but you have to remember that shortly after beta goes live, you will have fairly detailed map available for anyone somewhere online. That will make lot of stuff irrelevant right away. (UO had something like treasure maps? How did they work?)

20th August 2008, 19:20	#10 (permalink)
osteo Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 114 Rep Power: 0	very well put shinzon. So you are saying they should do away cartography?

30th August 2008, 18:26	#12 (permalink)
osteo Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 114 Rep Power: 0	touche ya thats pretty much what i was saying as well. I think we the player should be able to make a map. Then on top of that we can write what whatever we want and whereever we want on that map follow me on this one. If you are in a guild and you just made a house. For some reason you werent able to meet up with that person cuz you had to log off. You could make a map of where your house is. You make a map of the surrounding area. then you circle on the map where your house is.