Lunar Calendar/Seasons

[Lachrymose]

i'm hoping to see some form of in-game lunar calendar in a sense that each day has a month, day, and year associated with it (weeks aren't as necessary). maybe it wouldn't be based off the real-world calendar, but it doesn't really matter much, so long as it doesn't coincide with the real world calendar. now, depending on how long a single day is, some of my suggestions may not be so viable. i think it's best if the ratio of earth days to in-game days is 1:4, so the same would be true of the years, months (if they follow the same calendar) and seasons.

Dates:
if each day had a specific in-game date, it would allow for certain events to take place, and with a 1:4 ratio, these events would happen somewhat frequently so you wouldn't have to wait an entire year if you missed out on one of them. it would also just be a way to keep a time-frame reference that would be needed if the game calender isn't a 1:1 ratio with the real world calendar. such a reference would be needed to keep track of upcoming in-game holidays, seasons, etc.

Holidays:
since there are going to be gods in the game, it would make sense if there was a date reserved for each god, which would probably result in some sort of festival or event taking place on that day, or maybe for a span of several days. i personally don't care to see the "hollow's end" or "winter vale" type holidays that coincide with real world holidays. something about snowmen and jack-o-lanters littering the capital cities seems like it's better left for a different game than MO. this could give the devs some creativity room for coming up with their own unique holidays and the associated lore behind them.

Seasons:
this is the big thing for me.. as much as i think day and night should provide a completely different environment (and thus a completely different experience), i think that seasons should be an integral part of the game's calendar. obviously there should be some aesthetic changed depending on the seasons (this would probably be the most difficult thing to implement), such as snow covered areas in the winter, changing colors of the leaves in fall, etc. and as mentioned in previous threads, not every area would be the same. some areas would be snow covered year-round, while others would rarely be affected by snow.

however, more than simply a visual change, seasons should provide a relatively significant change in gameplay. for instance, herbs and such for alchemy (and possibly magery) would be sparce in the winter time and probably most abundant in the spring, and certain animals would "hibernate" (significantly decreased spawn rate) or migrate in the winter, so bear pelts, for instance, would be more rare in the winter than the summer. this would allow for fluctuations in the economy, as people would stockpile the goods they knew they needed for winter (or the one's they could make a nice profit off).

furthermore, seasons like summer and winter should deter travelling, since realistically people (in the time of covered wagons, etc) would be much more apt to travel during the spring or fall. a way this could be possible is to have a decreased movement speed for areas where snow is present in the winter. perhaps human and mount movement speed decreases could be relatively small, while it would be more significant against any caravans, carts, etc. as they would have trouble moving through the snow.

in the summer, due to high "temperatures" players should become fatigued more quickly and possibly need additional water to avoid suffering the associated effects, like dehydration (a debuff?). so if you wanted to travel in the summer, it would end up being more costly and you'd have to allot a considerably large amount of space simply to store the water you would need to make it through the trip.

keep in mind, provided a 1:4 ratio, a season would only last about 3 weeks. a 1:6 ratio could work too, in which case seasons would last only about 2 weeks (although i think six in-game days per rl day is a bit too many imo).

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anyways, these are just a few of my ideas for the game's calendar. i'd really like to see seasons have an effect on gameplay.

[lokius]

Nice post, I like your ideas not much to add. 1:4 ratio seems fine. Though considering its a fantasy world it could even have different year length, months count and names.

[Lachrymose]

Originally Posted by lokius

Nice post, I like your ideas not much to add. 1:4 ratio seems fine. Though considering its a fantasy world it could even have different year length, months count and names.

yea, i'd actually prefer to see a calendar different from the real world calendar with different names for months, days, etc. but ultimately it wouldn't really be that big of a deal.

[SkirmCard]

I think this an interesting idea, but I'm a little unsure on how to handle it. One problem I have is how far do we take the changing seasons and the weather patterns? Will there be one season for the entire planet? (I guess that's not a big change from having absolutely no seasons) Or will there be dynamically changing seasons for each section of the world?

Also, I'm not sure I like the idea of being hindered for 2 to three weeks (IRL) at a time (assuming 1 season for the entire planet), let alone punishing an entire trade (Alchemy/Herbology) for that time as well.

To see a system of seasons would be very nice, but I would prefer to have weather cause only minimal hindrances to game play.

[Zenir]

Just stock up before the season starts. The seasons would open possibilities for merchants, wars and other things.

If you take the 1/4 ratio and a year with 360 days, 4 seasons -> 90 ingame days a season, mean around 22 days real live and thats about 3 weeks.


And winter is probably the only real critical season anyways (closed paths, bad weather).

[osteo]

As nice as this sounds, If they have seasons i think they would have to break up world into parts like skirmcard said. I say if they bring it, bring it right. One Season for the whole world would be wierd and i think everyone would complain about it. Especially if it changed the world dynamically too.

[Lachrymose]

Originally Posted by osteo

As nice as this sounds, If they have seasons i think they would have to break up world into parts like skirmcard said. I say if they bring it, bring it right. One Season for the whole world would be wierd and i think everyone would complain about it. Especially if it changed the world dynamically too.

yes, the seasons would definitely be different for different areas of the world. i'm sure there are areas that are covered with snow all year round, so i would imagine summer there wouldn't be much different. the same goes for the southern regions, only they most likely wouldn't receive snow during the winter.

this way, if there was a resource that was very scare during the winter in your area, you could possibly move south for the winter. not everyone would be able to just up and move so easily, so there would still be those who choose to bear the harsh winter climate.

if you've ever played harvest moon, i loved every time the seasons changed, just because it made the world seem completely different every time. just as soon as you'd be getting used to one season, the next one would come along.

[ccoa]

Well, the whole reason there are seasons is because earth's axis is tilted. Meaning at one point in the year it is further away from the sun and one point it is closer.

So, in a fantasy setting having no seasons wouldn't be unrealistic at all. It could just so happen to be that the planet has a vertical axis which means its cold up north and down south and hot right at the equator.

So the only way you would have "realistic" seasons is if the planet had a tilt in it's axis similar to earth's. There could also be a different tilt meaning the seasons are at a different time than that of earth's seasons.

[Shinzon]

As awesome as that sounds, I don't think it is a very feasable idea. Visually changing the seasons would require 4 different enviornment sets.

That means 4 times the texture work; and 4 times the file size for the enviornment. I am not sure if that is an efficient use of time, but I would certainly wouldn't say no to this

[Rathius]

I really love the idea of seasons. It would help keep the game alive much longer and certainly help it be less static.

One thing that specifically came to mind while reading this was that I saw my character running through a few feet of snow, leaving trails behind him. Not that something like that is probably very feasible, but it would be extremely awsome. Run through the snow, crouch down and hide from enemies, hehe.

Anyhow, back on track... I would only see hinderances based on seasons for specific reasons and not a 'just because' factor to make it seem more realistic. For example, if my movement is being slowed, it better be because there's snow in my way. If it's too hot out, I could see having less stamina. And it doesnt have to be the extreme every day of the season, it could be a random variable that happens at some point in the day.

Although it's not the greatest weather system, Final Fantasy XI has random types of weather that can occur in specific zones. This would stop a weather system, like the above mentioned, from completely hindering people during that entire three week span. And again... it would keep variety in the world so it doesn't become a stale, static system.

[Saviour]

Noone comented the Holidays idea ;o, well I agree with you on some extent with the idea because I think the players could make the holidays myself with that I mean, someone makes a new God and probably writes some history of his "existence" and with that he writes some important days in his life which would be counted as holidays And there would be various festivals for guilds who worship their God etc
as for the Season idea I like it alot but hell I wouldn't mind having snow all year ;>

[lokius]

Originally Posted by Saviour

Noone comented the Holidays idea ;o, [...]

I thought I did :P by saying I like his ideas.

Dates - dates with original months names add much to immersion and help to plan things in game.

Holidays - Similar as dates they can add very much too immersion, lets sacrifice few fools to our dark god on his holiday.

Seasons - As much as I like the idea it may be hard to put that into the game, I'll just keep my fingers crossed.

@Lachrymose I remember old snes harvest moon, if its this game your talking about than hell yes it was wonderful.

[ccoa]

I agree, leave the holidays to the players. Hopefully there will be one universal holiday to be celebrated on each server, I'm sure that would prove to be one strong community.

[Rhygar]

Originally Posted by Lachrymose

if you've ever played harvest moon, i loved every time the seasons changed, just because it made the world seem completely different every time. just as soon as you'd be getting used to one season, the next one would come along.

How often in real time did the seasons change?

[Lachrymose]

yea, i realized it would be difficult to have to have different textures for the different seasons. let me adapt this idea a little:

Textures (the hard part):
each region of the world would have to have a set of textures to represent the seasons. summer and spring could have the same textures, so there wouldn't be any additional work to be done there. fall would just need a different texture for any non-evergreen trees. they would just have to change the colors of the leaves. winter would be the hardest since they'd have to put snow everywhere.

Temperature:
now, there could be a constant temperature that would just flucuate somewhat randomly, but based on both the region and the season. so for example, the temp in region X during the winter will have a lowerbound of -5 C and an upperbound of 5 C and it would fluctuate randomly between those numbers, while in region Z (the far north) the winter temp would be between -30 C and -20 C or something.

Weather:
the weather would be affected both by the season and by the temperature. i'm not sure how they do it now, but i'm sure there is just some random variable that determines whether it's raining or not. however, the chance that it rains during the spring could just be higher than most seasons, while the chance it rains in the summer is the lowest of the seasons.

if the temperature is less than 0 degrees celsius (or whatever units they would use), then instead of rain, it would be snow. so it's possible that it could snow in the spring, but depending on the region, it may not be very likely.

the effects i described above would be scaled based on the temp and the weather. so if the temperature was very high, you would need to drink more or like rathius said your stamina would drop quicker. you would receive the negative effect on speed only if there was snow on the ground (if it snowed, the snow would remain on the ground until the temp got above 0C, if the temp stays above freezing for a day, then the next day the snow would disappear).

i just had some other ideas, though i read something like this somewhere before...

Spells:
spells could be affected by the weather/temp. if the temperature was extremely high, maybe fire spells would be more effective, while water spells were less effective. if it was raining, lightning spells may be most effective (since the target is wet), but fire spells would be less effective. and if temperatures were below freezing, water spells would be more effective (unless the target had a jacket on ).

most of these ideas wouldn't be hard to implement. it would just take adding a few simple calculations. again, the most difficult part would be doing the multiple textures, but i honestly think it would be worth it for the dramatic changes in scenery.

[Necromantic]

Originally Posted by Lachrymose

Spells:
spells could be affected by the weather/temp. if the temperature was extremely high, maybe fire spells would be more effective, while water spells were less effective. if it was raining, lightning spells may be most effective (since the target is wet), but fire spells would be less effective. and if temperatures were below freezing, water spells would be more effective (unless the target had a jacket on ).

Why do people always think like that? :P
The difference is what hurts you, if it's warm and your body gets used to it something extremely cold would hurt you more than something extremely hot.

And if it's freezing water would rapidly become ice while fire would melt stuff, maybe you won't burn, but it will still hurt a lot more than water would except for icy spikes.

In my opinion Water is a stupid element for damage, 'cause since when does water harm someone except for drowning or with a really stong force behind it, ice would be more appropriate.

After all how much weather would influence magic depends on the magic system and the story behind it.

Just to clarify I'm not against the whole idea. Just my opinion on the suggestions.

[Lachrymose]

Originally Posted by Necromantic

Why do people always think like that? :P
The difference is what hurts you, if it's warm and your body gets used to it something extremely cold would hurt you more than something extremely hot.

And if it's freezing water would rapidly become ice while fire would melt stuff, maybe you won't burn, but it will still hurt a lot more than water would except for icy spikes.

In my opinion Water is a stupid element for damage, 'cause since when does water harm someone except for drowning or with a really stong force behind it, ice would be more appropriate.

After all how much weather would influence magic depends on the magic system and the story behind it.

Just to clarify I'm not against the whole idea. Just my opinion on the suggestions.

i see what you're saying, but i don't think the "damage" you'd be exposed to would be based on the disparity between your internal body temp and the external temp caused by the magic. sure, it would feel colder to be hit with a snowball when it's hot out than when it's snowing out.

i usually think that when a caster is channeling his energy, he's feeding off his surrounding (obviously this is just an opinion since it's all made up anyways). so if the air is filled with heat, there is more heat energy for the caster to draw from, which means he can make a more powerful fire blast or something, but in terms of physically harming the body i don't think it would make a difference.

and if it's raining, lighting would travel through the target better if he/she was wet.

if it was snowing, fire would "kind of" warm you up (until it hit you ). if the water hits you, i wouldn't expect it to freeze instantly in the air (unless it's like way way below freezing). would you rather be wet when it's warm, or wet when it's snowing?

if anything, the only time water would realistically be a good weapon is when it's cold out. wet + cold = hypothermia

[catmorbid]

I would personally go for a whole new calendar in a fantasy world, something that has ties and meaning to that specific fantasy world, not ours. Everything in our calendar is just a coincidence, not a basis on which every existing calendar in every universe should be. So, some imagination here would be welcomed. For instance, why does week need to be 7 days? Why not 13 days? Why a month needs to be 30 days, why not 20 days? Why a year needs to be 365 days, not 513 days?

I understand, in our world, there's a logical (or sometimes less logical) explanation for everything, but so should a fantasy world have a logical explanation for their calendar as well, and it need not remind ours at all!

[Rhygar]

Originally Posted by catmorbid

I would personally go for a whole new calendar in a fantasy world, something that has ties and meaning to that specific fantasy world, not ours. Everything in our calendar is just a coincidence, not a basis on which every existing calendar in every universe should be. So, some imagination here would be welcomed. For instance, why does week need to be 7 days? Why not 13 days? Why a month needs to be 30 days, why not 20 days? Why a year needs to be 365 days, not 513 days?

Are you proposing that an in-game timeline should exist? Also are those virtual or real days/weeks/months you are talking about?

The reason I ask is because I love the idea of "character aging and real death". To implement that you would of course have to have a proper system to keep track of your character's age.

[Hereshk]

Originally Posted by ccoa

Well, the whole reason there are seasons is because earth's axis is tilted. Meaning at one point in the year it is further away from the sun and one point it is closer.

The planet revolution around the Sun has something to do with that too... for constant weather all around a planet, it would need a straight axis but also a perfect circle revolution around a sun that would be in the center :P


I think a calendar is a good idea !

But the way its implemented could be hard to define in terms of graphic, mobs habits and general characters reactions to the changes.

Because it can go very far.

Some random thoughs :

- Change of seasons can also affect daytime on different regions and / or animals habits (hibernation, migration, etc. ). Like some monster (as said for the plants) are less accessible or easier to kill when they are suppose to hibernate.

- Lack of sun can bring down some ppls moral (wich can treat with alcohol maybe, hahaha :P)

- Holidays or "day of something" could be called after some major events in game ( wars, god apparition, beast slayed, death of someone important) and some events would be specific to some races

- If its a fantasy created planet, it could have no moon, or 2 or 3

- Spells wouldn't necessary be affected by the weather, but characters could be. Meaning that if its winter, u could be affected by the cold (loose X points of agility for each X minutes), and so you would need to switch to a warmer armor, wich wouldnt have the same stats then the other...

Of course, it can go on and ideas are almost infinite depending on how far they could bring this calendar / weather feature.

I think it could be very great to the game, but seeing how it could be hard to implement, I think at least a calendar with dates and events to start would be good

[catmorbid]

Originally Posted by Rhygar

Are you proposing that an in-game timeline should exist? Also are those virtual or real days/weeks/months you are talking about?

The reason I ask is because I love the idea of "character aging and real death". To implement that you would of course have to have a proper system to keep track of your character's age.

Well, I'm talking about virtual time of course, the "game world" time, to be exact, and yes, why not use a real actual timeline, so that each time a virtual day passes, your character gets one virtual day older, and after a number of virtual days have gone by, a virtual month has gone by and so on. So if one virtual day would last for, let's say 4 hours, this would be equal to 6 virtual days per real day, which would be about 60 real days for one virtual 365 day year. For aging to be of any use, the calendar would have to be shorter, but 24-hour-cycle of shorter than 4 hours would be getting maybe a bit too short...