Farming (not what you think)

[Lachrymose]

well, i apologize if this idea's come up, but i haven't seen it anywhere and trying to search for farming (the way i mean it) has only resulted in discussions on farming loot.

so.. this sort of ties in with my thread about seasons since it's semi-related, but mostly because the whole time i was writing that, i couldn't stop thinking about Harvest Moon. if you've every played any game in the series, you hopefully know what i'm talking about. also, obviously seasons would affect what you grow, how you grow (more rain means less watering) and even where you grow (harsh winters could mean no farming, unless maybe you could build a greenhouse).

you may not think it, but for some reason farming can be really fun. farming as in, planting, watering, harvesting crops. when i first read about harvest moon, i thought it would be the most retarded thing ever. for some reason, i got the game anyways and it was great.

Crops
it would be great if you could own plots of land that you could plant crops on. you could grow anything from food, plants, or reagents used in alchemy (and magery?).

plants/flowers: could be sold as decorations to be used inside people's houses or on their property. you could also cross breed certain plants (like in UO), to create rare plants, some of which may only be attainable through several generations of cross breeding, which could end up being very lucrative.

food: depending on the role food plays in the game, crops could do different things. for instance, if food is used just to replenish stamina, if you take extra special care of your crops, perhaps your food could would replenish 2x more stamina than normal. if food can give you some kind of temporary buff, taking very good care of your crops could give you slightly better buffs... etc.

reagents: regs would obviously be a hit, and you could set up your own reagent vendors. depending on whether or not mages use reagents, it may be frustrating to get them since lots of times npc vendors are sold out, and trying to harvest them in the wild would most likely be too tedious and time consuming.

Animals
in addition, you could own animals that could produce resources: cows, sheep, chickens, etc. so, every 10 days (or w/e) your sheep could be shaved for their wool (without having to kill them).

again, cows/chickens would be great for producing milk and eggs as mentioned above, while sheep would be great for producing wool if you've got a tailor in the guild. maybe horse's hair could be used to craft bows (did i make that up? or can bow strings be made w/ horse hair? now that i think of it, maybe that's violin bows...).

you could also breed your animals and sell their young to other farmers. a young animal may just stay that way for awhile requiring you to take care of it for one irl week or something (about 20 in-game days?) and then it would mature. obviously that isn't realistic, but it would be much more convenient, as the realistic way would end up taking a very very long time and wouldn't be worth it.

Breeding
i'm not really going to get into it, since there's already a great thread about it here. but basically, you could breed not only farm animals, but possibly different types of mounts and pets.. anyways, all that is mentioned in the link, check it out. some good ideas in there.

[Rhygar]

I'm glad you started this thread and agree with basically everything you said above. I have also thought of farming and other food producing activities could be expanded on quite a lot.

That is why I am quite keen on character aging and making food essential to maintain your health. You might need a basic combo of say a liquid, meat, cereal and a fruit/vegetable. If you consume a greater variety, and maybe higher quality foods (this is where the crafting aspect can get interesting) you can extend your life.

Certain foods are grown in different parts of the world. This reinforces the need for trade as players want as great a variety as possible to enhance their life span. Food thus becomes a strategic resource instead of merely a non-magical buff. Control of harvesting, herding areas and fertile farming lands would become a focus for conflicts between groups.

None of this means that you have to make the actual consumption thereof tedious, unless a player wants to role play. The actual consumption can be completely automated. Slip in a simple health bar to inform if you need any of the basics. All you have to do is buy the food/drink which is something that is already being done. So please no one mention Sims for Denis' sake!

[Saviour]

You got a rep from me :>

[Lachrymose]

Originally Posted by Rhygar

I'm glad you started this thread and agree with basically everything you said above. I have also thought of farming and other food producing activities could be expanded on quite a lot.

That is why I am quite keen on character aging and making food essential to maintain your health. You might need a basic combo of say a liquid, meat, cereal and a fruit/vegetable. If you consume a greater variety, and maybe higher quality foods (this is where the crafting aspect can get interesting) you can extend your life.

Certain foods are grown in different parts of the world. This reinforces the need for trade as players want as great a variety as possible to enhance their life span. Food thus becomes a strategic resource instead of merely a non-magical buff. Control of harvesting, herding areas and fertile farming lands would become a focus for conflicts between groups.

None of this means that you have to make the actual consumption thereof tedious, unless a player wants to role play. The actual consumption can be completely automated. Slip in a simple health bar to inform if you need any of the basics. All you have to do is buy the food/drink which is something that is already being done. So please no one mention Sims for Denis' sake!

whaaa? it sounds like the sims or something.

i'm right there with you on making eating/drinking affect gameplay. if you don't do either of these, you should suffer some debuff or temporary stat loss. maybe you sould fatigue extremely quickly causing your movement/attack speed to slow down noticeably, etc. and as you said, perhaps certain combinations of healty foods could have some kind of benefit, like maybe you'll be able to go longer without eating again or maybe a slight buff.

this would mean people have to either take food with them if they plan on going out hunting or whatever, or it would mean they have to be good at some basic survival skills like hunting, creating a fire, cooking, etc. in order to survive in nature without having to make trips back to the city.

it also means that if a merchant plans on making a long journey to deliver some goods, he's going to have to make sure he's got enough food/water stocked up to make it (his horses should also need food/water to pull the carts).

and finally, lack of supplies have been the turning point in many wars. if you're having a long battle with someone, you should have to bring your own food/water and when it runs out, you should have something to worry about. this means the defending army will have a slight advantage b/c they will most likely have better access to food/water.

although i just can't agree on the character aging. it sounds like an interesting idea, but it would be like a permadeath server only everyone is going to die no matter what. it just sounds really depressing... and it makes maxing out your character's skills and everything seems somewhat futile. also, i just don't really want to play an old man.

like i said above, i think food/water can be made important without having to make characters get old and die.

[Rhygar]

I've just got a hang-up with real death... ... so no worries.

[Rathius]

Lachrymose - I love the idea actually. Some of the most simple things can really add to a game. Most people may see it as another needless grind, but I don't. When I was playing Eve-Online I had some great times just mining asteroids... It's not like I do anything. Push a button to activate it, haul stuff back and forth, and occasionally defend myself. But what made it great was just hanging out in space with my friends, talking about whatever came up. A lot of it actually stayed game oriented and it wasn't even role-playing.

[CallMeZionn]

I think its a wonderfull idea

[Necromantic]

This is actually how it worked in UO and since they said most of them are inspired by UO maybe we'll see it.

[Lxx]

Good one, Lachrymose.

Why game should limit as from what we want to do?! The only thing i concern is how big the game will became ie from devs stand point (bug's,lag etc.) and trying to fix all of it?

Other then that i like it

[zekemorgan]

When I was reading another thread about farming, Harvest Moon definitely came to mind as well. Next all we need to do is buy cakes from the bakery and give them to random girls in town so we can get married sooner!

[Manorothh]

I really like your idea.

[lazyasian224]

i think if you impliment something like this, that might not exactly fit with EVERY single pvper out there but spreads the appeal and actually make it a fundamental part of the game, non-pvp crafting parts of the game could really shine alongside the uncencored raw bloody gore that the rest of the pvpers are advocating. I mean as long as it is useful like its depicted here thats all that matters. what we dont want is farming geared completely for pvpers. There should be a little escapism and a little pvp involved.

[Stump]

Originally Posted by Rhygar

None of this means that you have to make the actual consumption thereof tedious, unless a player wants to role play. The actual consumption can be completely automated. Slip in a simple health bar to inform if you need any of the basics. All you have to do is buy the food/drink which is something that is already being done. So please no one mention Sims for Denis' sake!

No one is mentioning Sims. It is actualy unrealistic with food things. Actualy, you can live without food (But with water) at least a week (I have an experience in this, so I know what I am talking about. But after that time, I was felling really bad....). I aways was for that food would be important in this game. If you dont eat for some time, you could get some debufs, like Dehydration, if you eat uncooked foot, you can get some parasites (also debuff). This would also make the farmer profession important and worth of time, and cooking skill important (not something like UO made. Cooking skill just fo Roleplaying... Sad...) Read the military survival manual, it is really great knowledge in there...
And If you still dont eat nothing, lets say in a week, you will die. Simple. No need much of sims care. Just go in the shop, buy some food, eat it daily and thats all. And always have some food with you.

Originally Posted by Lachrymose

although i just can't agree on the character aging. it sounds like an interesting idea, but it would be like a permadeath server only everyone is going to die no matter what. it just sounds really depressing... and it makes maxing out your character's skills and everything seems somewhat futile. also, i just don't really want to play an old man.

like i said above, i think food/water can be made important without having to make characters get old and die.

I agree on this one.
Btw, +1 for this thread

[Edit]: Damn! I need to "spread some...."

[Rhygar]

Originally Posted by Stump

No one is mentioning Sims.

Sims has been used as a counter argument on numerous other threads the moment it was suggested that food be made more of a neccesity for survival. So I just pre-empted any such comments as they are spurious. That particular element of Sims, i.e. eating food, is already included in my mainstream MMOs.

[Stump]

"And If you still dont eat nothing, lets say in a week, you will die."
Well, I guess, that mean that in my opinion food should be necessary to survive.

[Lachrymose]

Originally Posted by Stump

"And If you still dont eat nothing, lets say in a week, you will die."
Well, I guess, that mean that in my opinion food should be necessary to survive.

yea, that doesn't sound like a bad idea. i mean, you'll die, but you can just rez yourself. although when you do rez, you should still have the debuffs on you.. eventually you'll buckle down and find something to eat.

[y2mattitude]

I think gardening/farming is a WONDERFUL idea. Even if it is simply on the 'to do list' for the future beyond release, it will be great. IMO, it will add a lot to the feeling of really making a region your own, and having to rely on your fellows to defend it from the blood thirsty brigands out there!

[lazyasian224]

i dont think you should be able to buy food from Npc's unless they are hired by a player that farms. or maybe just have npc taverns that sell something equivilent to fast food, i'l keep u alive for a little while, but u'll need to buy food off of other players that are farmers. Also if ur traveling, u'd need to carry supplies with you so if u get killed, ud lose ur food and now u would need to go out and get more.

farmers would farm food, and then sell it off for profit.

[Rhygar]

Originally Posted by lazyasian224

i dont think you should be able to buy food from Npc's unless they are hired by a player that farms. or maybe just have npc taverns that sell something equivilent to fast food, i'l keep u alive for a little while, but u'll need to buy food off of other players that are farmers. Also if ur traveling, u'd need to carry supplies with you so if u get killed, ud lose ur food and now u would need to go out and get more.

farmers would farm food, and then sell it off for profit.

It might be necessary to have NPCs selling food when the world is young. As players get more established we should definitely get weened of NPC food. So I agree that it is important to encourage players to buy food from other players and not NPC vendors.

[Phi]

i think its a great idea. Adds more reason for player housing too.

[Lachrymose]

Originally Posted by Rhygar

It might be necessary to have NPCs selling food when the world is young. As players get more established we should definitely get weened of NPC food. So I agree that it is important to encourage players to buy food from other players and not NPC vendors.

you're right. npc vendors should sell low quality items that work, but aren't terribly convenient for someone that can afford the higher quality goods. keep in mind, new players may not know where to find players selling food anyway, so it is best to let npc vendors cater to the newbs, while the players cater to the rest.

[catmorbid]

I totally agree that characters should have to eat, and that you should be able to grow food. But It should be just food (with different foods giving different amount of satiation), to remove the micromanagement from getting your diet perfect. I would simply hate that.

But what about when you're offline, should you be able to die off due to malnutrition if you're offline for a long time? Or would this fall into the category of "offline activities" that while offline your character automatically eats from your personal food reserve, or would the need be simply removed while offline, or maybe you wouldn't starve to death while offline, but just be very hungry when you next play again.

[Rhygar]

Originally Posted by catmorbid

But what about when you're offline, should you be able to die off due to malnutrition if you're offline for a long time? Or would this fall into the category of "offline activities" that while offline your character automatically eats from your personal food reserve, or would the need be simply removed while offline, or maybe you wouldn't starve to death while offline, but just be very hungry when you next play again.

I really doubt they will expect your character to eat while off line. Otherwise you will have to carry huge amounts of food with you if you go away for a month. What if you logged off in some remote area without access to your house (where you might've stored food)? That could only work if you implement a specific system so that your character can perform fundamental activities while you are off line. Such as hunting if you are in the wilderness.

So, no, you shouldn't be able to die while offline. Or at least I would be surprised if they did it without a completely different approach to offline character interaction.

[Lachrymose]

yea, i'd say you shouldn't need to eat while offline... think of it this way:

in-game food = x amount of in-game money = x amount of real-world time

and since time is money, or opportunity cost anyways, you'll technically be spending to maintain you're character while you aren't even playing the game. i don't really want to have to pay for a game while i'm not playing it..

instead, if there's something like "rest xp" for skills, or like the thread discussing offline character skill ups talked about leveling skills while offline... in that case, maybe if you log off while you're character is hungry, your skills won't get as large a bonus as if you'd logged of on a full stomach. although, i'm not really a proponent of anything happening while you're offline, so i'd say food/water deprivation effects are better left in-game.

[Misto]

Originally Posted by Lachrymose

whaaa? it sounds like the sims or something.

i'm right there with you on making eating/drinking affect gameplay. if you don't do either of these, you should suffer some debuff or temporary stat loss. maybe you sould fatigue extremely quickly causing your movement/attack speed to slow down noticeably, etc. and as you said, perhaps certain combinations of healty foods could have some kind of benefit, like maybe you'll be able to go longer without eating again or maybe a slight buff.

this would mean people have to either take food with them if they plan on going out hunting or whatever, or it would mean they have to be good at some basic survival skills like hunting, creating a fire, cooking, etc. in order to survive in nature without having to make trips back to the city.

it also means that if a merchant plans on making a long journey to deliver some goods, he's going to have to make sure he's got enough food/water stocked up to make it (his horses should also need food/water to pull the carts).

and finally, lack of supplies have been the turning point in many wars. if you're having a long battle with someone, you should have to bring your own food/water and when it runs out, you should have something to worry about. this means the defending army will have a slight advantage b/c they will most likely have better access to food/water.

although i just can't agree on the character aging. it sounds like an interesting idea, but it would be like a permadeath server only everyone is going to die no matter what. it just sounds really depressing... and it makes maxing out your character's skills and everything seems somewhat futile. also, i just don't really want to play an old man.

like i said above, i think food/water can be made important without having to make characters get old and die.

i think its absolutely brilliant! and not to compare to WoW but pets have the "happiness" bar where it will tell you when its time to feed it. and you have to carry the food with you anyways.
I would add that maybe certain types of food would give you certain buffs, for example meat would add a few points on strength for tanks, berries would give better casting abilities for casters. its something that most games have anyways, nothing really out of the ordinary