My Dream :D

[alienl2vn]

h-elf,d-elf,orcs.... often saw in many MMO game
Why we can't have a different races
I think about :

_ Sandman:Live only on desert... have a sand-skin,excelent stamina.A warrior of sandman can hide under sand and skin is armor, a mage can control sand

_ Anima: animal peoples ... with class is special. Like warrior are Lion/tiger/worsshape, Guardian are Tauren/Boar or sin are cat/leopard

_ Succubus: FLY and week. It can tranform to every thing.Have 1 class: sin

_ Faceless: anybody have better name ??? They have a small population far to human domain. Always wear a mask... don't know why... legend say that they been cured by some thing...etc...

if i had any idea, i will post here

[Lachrymose]

someone else just mentioned a "sand people" race, and it seems like a decent idea.

i'm not too keen on animal races, i perfer races to be humanoids, but that's just my opinion.

succubus isn't exactly a race, so i don't think it belongs. also, races shouldn't fly or be able to transform into anything.

also, a race of masked people doesn't really sound like a race. it could be anyone/anything under those masks.

[Lialith]

to have uncommon races is a nice idea, and i think i would like it, if it would be a really totally new setting with totally new races that resemble to nothing that has already been established in any fantasy lore and are also called different.
so no vampires, no banshees, no garyles, no orks, elves, dwarfs, halflings, humans and so on...

but wouldnt that be sort of a sci-fi setting then? (take babylon5 for an example: mimbari, narn, centaury, vorlons ... <- new names for new races... i love that lore)
well you could create a planet where different races have evoluted side by side, but put that setting into a stage where the high end of the industry are still bows and arrows and gunpowder hasnt been envented jet... i deffinately would like that.

but we already know that there deffinately will be half-orcs (i really do love the description of that race by the way) so i do want to see elves, dwarfs and halflings, daemons and undead, maby tieflings asimar and gnasi, but no sandpeople, or animale-races.

stick to a certain setting or create a totally new one, i dont like halve things when it comes to creating a setting.

well thats my opinion

[Myst]

Agree Lialith, do not mix up to many things, to keep some coherence. If we have Dwarves, Gnomes (as in Wish or Vanguard, not ridiculous ones from WoW), Undead, Elves (not shemale ones, but charismatic as in WAR) and deamons-type guys.. that would be great.
I just hope to see many playable races btw.

Originally Posted by Lachrymose

someone else just mentioned a "sand people" race, and it seems like a decent idea.

That's the same guy posting :]

[alienl2vn]

but i think if have a battle between human and monters-type character it would be cool...

if a server have a limit number of race it will balanced and more reality

like sever 1 we can only have 5000 human and 2000 orcs... cant create any human if this sever have 5000

[Hereshk]

What about crab people ?

j/k

I like races and the facts that they have all their good and bad sides. Also like the idea of new races in a game. usually a race has some specifics abilities, so I would guess a new race would also bring some new classes or something.

As long as its not only undercovered usual races (with different story and names only, hehe) I always enjoy a game where I discover new races in it and that it gives new gameplay possibilities

[Rhygar]

wrong thread

[mikesanimation]

I like the whole idea of having a lot of different races. However, I would prefer if they were kept humanoid. I mean it might be a cool idea to be able to play as a...I dunno something talk walks on four legs, but from a gaming stand point it doesn't make any sense. It would be very different fighting something like a tiger, also from a crafting and mounting standpoint? A tiger really wouldn't be able to get a mount (unless he was hungry) and how could he craft? There are ways you could go about making it happen, but it just doesn't seem like a great idea to me.

[dawnofdeath]

Humanoid races only is my vote. The only exceptions I don't want to see in game as playable are dwarves, elves, gnomes, hobbits or the like. A few feet tall midget wouldn't possible be equal in strength. Ever seen lord of the rings for example? all those hobbits could do was run away or kill some minion with luck and stay in hiding.

Half-orc is a good start, make interesting races like that but don't do half-elf,half-dwarf etc. That's not creative enough imo.
I don't really want to see undead either, instead maybe like a human with a corrupted soul without making it look like a skeleton,zombie or too much demon like.

I don't want to see animal races either, the thought of me fighting a lizardman or a ugly pig/cow or something does not comfort me at all ><

[mikesanimation]

The only exceptions I don't want to see in game as playable are dwarves, elves, gnomes, hobbits or the like. A few feet tall midget wouldn't possible be equal in strength. Ever seen lord of the rings for example? all those hobbits could do was run away or kill some minion with luck and stay in hiding.

Well, first of all, it's not all about strength. Theres a lot of different things that would contribute to one's combat abilities, such as the player's speed, magic, and dexterity, to name a few. Obviously we aren't going to have hobbit or gnome warriors, that would just be dumb. But they could compensate in other skills to make up for lack of strength. The short stature of a hobbit would actually be a big bonus to a thief or a rogue, sneaking around under people's eyesight would be much easier. And just because all the hobbits could do in lotr were run away and hide, doesn't mean that they can only run and hide in MO. But this game isn't all about combat either, a dwarf would be equally as good (if not better) than a human at blacksmithing, so why couldn't one who wanted to craft just be a dwarf?
Also, you mentioned elves. What does that have to do with being small?

I'm not truly understanding your argument for leaving out the [physically] smaller races in a game where more than just strength and size matters.

Half-orc is a good start, make interesting races like that but don't do half-elf,half-dwarf etc. That's not creative enough imo.

Make interesting races like what? How is a half-orc anymore creative than a half-elf or half-dwarf? They've all been around. This is supposed to be a fantasy game, they don't have to invent all new races. I'm not saying that I wouldn't like the idea of them being creative with the races, all I'm saying is that it isn't crucial to the game if they decide not to invent new ones. Again, it doesn't seem like you have put a lot of thought into your posts, and much of your reasoning isn't making a lot of sense to me.

[dawnofdeath]

Originally Posted by mikesanimation

Well, first of all, it's not all about strength. Theres a lot of different things that would contribute to one's combat abilities, such as the player's speed, magic, and dexterity, to name a few. Obviously we aren't going to have hobbit or gnome warriors, that would just be dumb. But they could compensate in other skills to make up for lack of strength. The short stature of a hobbit would actually be a big bonus to a thief or a rogue, sneaking around under people's eyesight would be much easier. And just because all the hobbits could do in lotr were run away and hide, doesn't mean that they can only run and hide in MO. But this game isn't all about combat either, a dwarf would be equally as good (if not better) than a human at blacksmithing, so why couldn't one who wanted to craft just be a dwarf?.

It's not really like that, races will most likely be somewhat balanced and equal. If they don't that would be pretty stupid/boring imo. Otherwise we would see mostly hobbits that are theifs, humans being warriors since they have so vast difference bonus race stats etc etc and that lack of variation sucks. Also it would be pretty predictable of what the other players are capable of and it would be pretty much the same as normal classes.
I see no need to be a midget to be a thief when you can just easily spend skill points in it instead. Nor a dwarf for blacksmithing :S why would they make a whole race only for crafting? Oo what a waste! give us a better equal race instead.

.

Also, you mentioned elves. What does that have to do with being small? .

Nothing, just doesn't like them and they are also done to death.

I'm not truly understanding your argument for leaving out the [physically] smaller races in a game where more than just strength and size matters..

I've said my reasons in my previous post and in the playable races threads so I'm not gonna repeat myself.

Make interesting races like what? How is a half-orc anymore creative than a half-elf or half-dwarf? They've all been around. This is supposed to be a fantasy game, they don't have to invent all new races. I'm not saying that I wouldn't like the idea of them being creative with the races, all I'm saying is that it isn't crucial to the game if they decide not to invent new ones. Again, it doesn't seem like you have put a lot of thought into your posts, and much of your reasoning isn't making a lot of sense to me.

I want to see something new and creative instead of another tolkien wannabe that we have seen like a million times already? Hmm yeah you're right my reasoning isn't making any sense at all

[Rathius]

Originally Posted by dawnofdeath

I want to see something new and creative instead of another tolkien wannabe that we have seen like a million times already? Hmm yeah you're right my reasoning isn't making any sense at all

Care to expand on what is 'new and creative'? Because half races aren't. Anything humanoid isn't too creative either. It's generally just a human with different skin/height/stats. Insectoid race, fish race?

The thing is, we base creations off of what we know, because we can identify with it. If we can't identify with that creation, it's generally not well accepted. Once you get past the general half-breeds, races start to turn into alien-like races that I don't believe is the fantasy setting that MO is shooting for.

What is creative, even if they use standard races for their models, is the story and background they put into them. I've seen many different variations on the elven races. Not all of them prissy snobs and archery fanatics. I've seen variations on most races, it's the lore that makes them interesting, not neccessarily the model.

[dawnofdeath]

Originally Posted by Rathius

Care to expand on what is 'new and creative'? Because half races aren't. Anything humanoid isn't too creative either. It's generally just a human with different skin/height/stats. Insectoid race, fish race?.

Aye true that ain't new, well maybe in todays mmos. But hey at least it's a step in the right direction. even if it's not 100% new at least we get some variation compared to the rest. It's not very creative but at least it's better than those that totally lack creativity. Really don't think they should go overboard such as fish races tho

The thing is, we base creations off of what we know, because we can identify with it. If we can't identify with that creation, it's generally not well accepted. Once you get past the general half-breeds, races start to turn into alien-like races that I don't believe is the fantasy setting that MO is shooting for.

What is creative, even if they use standard races for their models, is the story and background they put into them. I've seen many different variations on the elven races. Not all of them prissy snobs and archery fanatics. I've seen variations on most races, it's the lore that makes them interesting, not neccessarily the model.

Aye identify..well I think it's pretty sad that you would only be able to do that with the common tolkien race sets we seen million times over already. But then again what exactly do you mean by identify? You can compare youself with an orc/dwarf/elf? It is similar to you? Or is it that you are simply too used to them and can't imagine playing anything else? It could only feel like a fantasy world to you with them?

Hmm odd I thought you were one of them that want's this game to go to another direction and stand out more from the rest?
I'm pretty confident you can create a good fantasy setting without the typical dwarf/orc/elf races without alien like races and with an unique lore The question is if they are creative enough and/or if they lack motivation for it. Perhaps they are very fond of the typical tolkien race base or cant simply come up with something better?

[Rathius]

Originally Posted by dawnofdeath

But then again what exactly do you mean by identify? You can compare youself with an orc/dwarf/elf? It is similar to you? Or is it that you are simply too used to them and can't imagine playing anything else? It could only feel like a fantasy world to you with them?

Hmm odd I thought you were one of them that want's this game to go to another direction and stand out more from the rest?

Indentify with it means that we can regonize what it relates to in our world.

If you look at most alien movies, the aliens really aren't all that much. I mean this in terms of what they are not the various designs and skin colors. Most all of the aliens resemble something that we have here on our planet. Most of the -bad- aliens will resemble some ferocious animal. Most of the good aliens will take on qualities of things we don't find offense or threatening.

And in order to keep sci-fi separate from fantasy, most of the main characters or prime races, will be variations on a Human. Basically changes in height, weight, and a subtle change in structure, but still mostly humans. Elves being tall, lanky, humans. Dwarves are midgets. Halflings generally children (hobbits fit with midgets). Orcs are the steroid type body builder humans. See, generally all still human but with slightly altered features.

Once you break more away from that you get into alien-like races or in the fantasy setting, mystical creatures of magic and different planes. And usually these races have attributes that put them above the human based races in terms of abilities. Most times in order to balance them with the human counterpart you have to take away abilities that make them what they are.

---
And I would like to see the game go in a different direction than most of the other crap out there right now. I just don't believe they have to have 'all new races' in order to do it. Maybe one or two, but most of the time it can be accomplished with the background. There are many different version of elves and dwarves and others that aren't Tolkien in nature.

[dawnofdeath]

Originally Posted by Rathius

Indentify with it means that we can regonize what it relates to in our world.


If you look at most alien movies, the aliens really aren't all that much. I mean this in terms of what they are not the various designs and skin colors. Most all of the aliens resemble something that we have here on our planet. Most of the -bad- aliens will resemble some ferocious animal. Most of the good aliens will take on qualities of things we don't find offense or threatening.

And in order to keep sci-fi separate from fantasy, most of the main characters or prime races, will be variations on a Human. Basically changes in height, weight, and a subtle change in structure, but still mostly humans. Elves being tall, lanky, humans. Dwarves are midgets. Halflings generally children (hobbits fit with midgets). Orcs are the steroid type body builder humans. See, generally all still human but with slightly altered features.

Once you break more away from that you get into alien-like races or in the fantasy setting, mystical creatures of magic and different planes. And usually these races have attributes that put them above the human based races in terms of abilities. Most times in order to balance them with the human counterpart you have to take away abilities that make them what they are.

---
And I would like to see the game go in a different direction than most of the other crap out there right now. I just don't believe they have to have 'all new races' in order to do it. Maybe one or two, but most of the time it can be accomplished with the background. There are many different version of elves and dwarves and others that aren't Tolkien in nature.

Hmm I find this a bit odd.. identify the tolkien races so it can relate to our world? by óur world I guess you mean irl earth. Now where is the logic? Those races are fiction, nothing that can really resemble anything in our world (well except dwarfs and humans I guess?). But why do you even want it to resemble earth/reality? That doesn't sound like a very good fantasy setting at all to my ears.. but then again I don't really get it how you can resemble orcs etc to our world Oo
Sure I prefer low fantasy setting and to feel like it's earth in a different mode is nice but I wouldn't really want it to resemble our world too much..

And I don't really understand why it's necessary to even bring up sci-fi to this. You really make it sound like if there aren't any orcs/elves/dwarves etc it will become as highly "unrealistic" as sci fi (tho fantasy isnt realistic either) and not being a fantasy world at all.
I can assure you it's very possible to create an unique fantasy setting that you can still "identify" you with even with different races, because it has been done before.
Tolkiens world had a too much impact on fantasy imo, it's like many people can't imagine a fantasy world without inspiration from tolkien, like it was the definition of fantasy (which it's not btw).
I really can't see why it would be soo hard for you to see different races, you rather have the same races (most of them) but with different "unique" backgrounds. How can you say that is creative and enough? It's like me rewriting the storyline of the lord of the rings for example but still keep the factions and basic plot (evil vs good, factions,war etc) and just rename the title. How can you say that's creative enough and necessary for it to feel like a fantasy world and anything else would make it too sci fi like?

Depending on your answer I might have to say agree to disagree because it seems we really have different opinions nowhere near to find a compromize..

[Rathius]

Everything we've ever created in life resembles something in our world. Down to some point it will always come back to something as a reference. Since you can't seem to understand that, I'm not going to go any further with this.

[dawnofdeath]

Originally Posted by Rathius

Everything we've ever created in life resembles something in our world. Down to some point it will always come back to something as a reference. Since you can't seem to understand that, I'm not going to go any further with this.

yeah but there certainly is a limit

[Traceur]

guys, your debating whether half orcs are somehow more original then elves & dwarves? it's silly. "what is more yellow, my black shirt or my red shirt".... non of the above. neither of them show a tiny bit of originality either way.

"a new take on old races" you say?
sure each might be given it's own little tiny lore twists to say "our half orcs aren't like D&D's" or "our dwarves aren't like tolkien's", but that's most often BS: you might say that your elves are cannibalistic creepy crawlers and your half orcs are schizo's, but if you do not somehow manifest that difference in gameplay then people will just roleplay lagolas & the league of fat bullies.

but that's the player's fault that they can't loreplay right
no it isn't, that only ends up serving to alienate the players from the lore, because it does not represent how these races behave when their are people behind them - which is the real lore of an MMO - and instead it only serves to make them feel "guilty" for "not loreplaying correctly". that isn't the player's fault - that is exactly what these renovated twists of over used materials do - they give their players something they recognize with already familiar character archetypes in their minds and then say "but it isn't like how your used to think of them" - the poor lore-alienated players just fall into the hole in the ground the dev's ended up setting them up in.

"well the obvious solution is to manifest the differences through gameplay"
well that's not going to happen, and you know why? because the reason of having them in the first place is to make them recognizable and while people will forgive alienating lore play they won't forgive misrepresented gameplay: "i choose elves for the bow and ended up being a brute force character? I'm out of here". the "new takes" is a cheep trick - it's trying to satisfy the people who want generic & the people who want original in one go - and it ends up failing on both accounts.
does that mean their should be no original twists? No, of course not: make your cannibalistic tree hugger, just don't call them elves. now you might tell me "actually cannibalistic tree hugger would be a better representation of the old folklore" and you'd be right - the Norse blamed elf diet habits for babies dying and disappearing - but it isn't ancient folklore but the "fantasy cannon" in people's heads that will determine what people expect out of the things they recognize. if you don't want them to have these expectations, don't make them that recognizable.

alright then, but why not use the cannon fantasy versions for the races?
because it doesn't fit with the gameplay a sandbox is suppose to cater for. "any genre can be done in any gameplay" - well any genre can be skinned on any gameplay formula, but not every genre can be done well in every gameplay:
"tree elves are rangers, high elves are mages & orcs are warriors" is great for a themepark game of predisposition classes, if anything it allows them to use this recognition to enrich it with expanded details in the players imagination.
but in a sandbox game with an open progression system of "everyone can potentially do everything", using these basic archetypes either ends up creating a class system in itself if the differences are too extreme, reinforcing the bad stereotype of skill systems delivering a lot of gimped character if it determines your caps, or ends up not meaning anything at all if the difference is just in starting attributes or just in skin, leading to break player's expectation of what they recognize, which might serve as a cool retribution against the cannon fantasy realm but what it ends up doing is to beak the immersion of players - you've made them expect a generic fantasy world and then told them it's a bad expectation - you might made a better sandbox game but you've made a bad generic fantasy game, and the truth is you can't make them both good, because generic fantasy is inherently itself too restrictive. in fact many races are based entirely on restriction - hobbits & gnomes are based on fat/muscle tissue restrictions dwarves have, dwarves & giants are based on height & endurance restrictions humans have, and elves are based on intelligence & dexterity limits all the other races have.

"and your saying original races won't be as restrictive?"
they can be too restrictive if they are badly designed just like generic fantasy races can be. but the difference is that your not only being creative for the sake of it - it isn't art for art's sake, it is product design - and the difference is that you can design with goals in mind. you (the dev') have a chance of designing them knowing that your designing them for a sandbox game, where your aiming for maximum flexibility.

"but races are inherently inflexible - their a choice at the start of the game"
your right, and that is exactly the basis of the the minimalistic sandbox racial paradigm - avoid using races whenever possible, as long as it doesn't restrict what you can implement in the game.

"but i want to play a small/big/fat/skinny/alcoholic/nature-loving/aggressive/magic-using [insert race] at the start of the game, not post-development!"
which would be different from a small/big/fat/skinny/alcoholic/nature-loving/aggressive/magic-using human how exactly?

"but then it won't be a fantasy game!"
that depends on the fiction, but while it may not be generic fantasy, it can still be fantasy. fantasy is making the inside world on the outside environment - our emotional individualistic spiritual or theological outlook on things internal - and making them in the outside world. that can be as simplistic as "good vs. evil" or the "the hero of a thousand faces / monomyth" or as intricate as the existential crisis of never really being able to fully grasp anything else's existence or the psychology of wishful thinking and their results. it has nothing to do with races or with replicating folklore. it can still be fantasy, and it can even take place in a medieval setting, regardless of elves, orcs and dwarves.

"alright, so no generic fantasy races. how about human cultures then?"
in-game cultural diversity is great - as cultures. they are a function of where you where born and who are your parents, and matching up possible starting locations & enabled languages with looks, starting items & skills isn't a bad idea at all. but the moment you make them into race templates, setting the "strong Nords" and the "agile Beduins" or "martial arts bonus Asians", with them defining your finale caps and potential, your doing the same thing that dev's do when they take generic fantasy races: creating a type of template which doesn't fit into a sandbox game. their should be agile Nords & strong fat Beduins if players want to make them.

what about unique 'magical abilities' menifesting from the culture's customs and ancient traditions?
you'd just be creating a class system of magic types. but even if you wanted to do that - then what's the point of linking it with ethnicity? if the ability is based on the culture's theological & spiritual practices, then whats stopping people from other ethnicities to learn them? the tradition would just be a religion or a mystics/spirituality school, it would be a nonsense restriction on needing a certain ethnicity for a certain magic with no good reasoning beind it.

what about cultural appropriate things such as unique crafting skills for unique buildings and items?
if knowledge of how to craft what was taken from people around you & not automatically supplied by the game, then culturally designed items would become a natural consequence. ofcourse this means that certain objects crafting processes can be lost (especially in a PD game) - forgotten memory not passed to newcomers or if an item is completely unique to a player culture and it becomes extinct.

but wouldn't gradually contact between cultures create standardized equipment and items over time?
if new items are added locally - through pve content or through some mechanism of invention & innovation - then that would be naturally overcome as cultures become unique in the same pace knowledge is transfered between them. further more, current characters will likely adopt designs which share techniques they already know (to lessen needed progression) then completely different designs from a drastically different culture. there's no need to categorize craftable items by culture based racial slots - it would happen naturally and let cultures evolve by player actions.

so choosing your cultural slot would simply mean choosing your skin & starting place?
why create predefined starting places limited for each culture? what about shifting territories or nomadic cultures? it shouldn't be even predefined cultural starting points: ideally possible starting points will simply emerge from population scatter - you'd have a higher chance of being born closer to where more people share your physical traits & characteristics, thus allowing players to define ethnicities freely and create their own cultures.

wait, so no ganeric fantasy races, no human-culture races... so your basically saying no raceial slots at all?"
no, i'm saying avoid whenever possible as long as it doesn't restrict what you can't do in the game, and that isn't always the case. when designing the game you design the multitude of possible actions & abilities & passive traits a character could potentially have, and whenever possible these should be enabled for everyone - as tools in the game, as skills or attributes, even as spells, etc'.
but more often then not some of these abilities do not work together well - often combining them would break gameplay completely by allowing tactics that would become the only viable tactics, some are so immensely useful that they'd need equal disadvantages, some cater for strategies that break whole aspects of gameplay & game features, and others simply make the best solution very boring.
these can be dealt with in various ways - you can have apposing attributes such as "rational intelligence skills vs. emotional intelligence skills skills" or "white magic vs. black magic" or "these work when your short & these work when your tall", or "apposing religions", and perhaps MO can integrate these traits into it's NPC-class system and simply not allow people who have some of them to have the others, etc...

"so when do you need races?"
when the abilities/traits you want to integrate break not only with a specific other ability/trait, but with the whole system, entire features of gameplay which characters with that ability can't possibly experience while having those abilities and still enjoy. the default gameplay may be based on skills an attributes and whatnot, and the default race (usually humans) can have that, but not all of those would work with the other races. for example a race based entirely on loot (like a golem/robot sort of thingy) wouldn't work with the skill system a race that can fly long distances wouldn't work with an inventory (breaking local economies), etc'. a lot of these "other abilities" could work well together and integrate into another race, but not work with the default systems. in other words when designing another race, you do it because your designing a whole different game which can't be integrated into the rest of the game but can be integrated into the same world.

"but aren't the dev's taking a huge risk with such weirdo unrecognizable races? not everyone will identify with them"
yes they are, because while it's design and not pure art, just like art it's taking upon a mission of expressing and conveying the right message to the player. much like the original storytellers that came up with the folklore & mythologies which we use as the basis of generic fantasy settings, some of it was good and survived the generations to reach our literature and media, and i'm sure some of it simply sucked, and we never heard about it. this is actually historical fact - if you dig into Greek mythology you'll find many stories and creatures and tales which never became cannon because the cult which told them didn't inspire the rest of the Greek world. art isn't beyond judgment, there is art that simply doesn't convey any message or move anything inside you. being creative is a risky business in any fields - and MMORPG settings are no exception. it is on the shoulders of the developers who want to make original races to convey the message and identity which those races portray - with the visual arts & audio & lore writing as much as the gameplay - sometimes people are gonna love it, sometimes it will become a minority catch of a very small fanbase, and sometimes nobody is gonna get it. the good news however is that with an MMORPG, your in a continuously developing world. if nobody gets it - nobody wants to play these races - take them out, make them go extinct the way of the microraptor & the dodo bird. even better, let players do it for you - with no players playing them and all the NPCs of that race being on KOS lists, they'd feel they've accomplished something. take all these wonderful gameplay traits back in the unused gene pool, and start from scratch.

"but why should a game even take this risk? races cost development time as it is and your talking about making them whole different games sharing the same world, & sandbox games are hard enough to make as it is. why not just have humans?"
because then you'd be missing out on a lot of great potential gameplay which these other "non integratable abilities" can add, the game would have less gameplay diversity. in fact if the developers don't want to make that "other games" at all then they shouldn't, but if they do, then there's no need to create a whole different world for them - you just need to figure out how to,stacking up more games in one world to make that game world more diverse and interesting. races should be left for the long term development of the game after release, and that's actually better in a sandbox game because it allows the current player population to determine what's the role of those new races - how should they be treated? threats? exploitable slaves? equals? simply animals not to be thought of? - that can be up to the players. it's also useful to avoid possible RvR results of multiply races being factions - if a group wants to define itself racially it can & if they are able to unite other groups they might count as a "realm" - but the whole race can't become into a realm by the dev's actions this way because it wouldn't be competitive straight away with current population numbers of other races. your just doing the sandbox thing - you give the players the choice. ideally a race would be unlockable within the game for the whole server - but if the cost of producing a new race which is akin to a completely different gameplay isn't justifiable this way, then it could actually get it's own public release as a separate retail price. you would be getting another game - just sharing the same player-driven world.

[Somarl]

I very much like Tolkiens vision when it comes to races, especially with Peter Jacksons film interpretation on top of that, i found lots of things to be beliveable and not over the top, and its how i would base any fantasy game/film i would make, original or not. Sometimes you got to go with what your comfortable with.

I would really like to know what the devs have in mind and what races they are proposing. Maybe they could do a poll for us! Or are they keeping things secret till further notice for any reason. If thats the case we shall see but please, no sodding fish people or gnomes, i bloody hate gnomes, halflings yes (though not as a playable race) but gnomes NO.

[OMGPIE]

If sand people are in I want all sorts of elementals not just sand.

[Death Saved]

Hmm sand people haha cast fire until they turn to glass then shatter them!

P.S:Thanks Traceur that was a good read.