Visual Feedback Instead of Text, Healthbars and What-not.

[Cye]

That re-raises my initial question. If you know when you are above 80%, between 80% and 50%, between 50% and 20%, between 20% and 5%, and below 5%, how is it possible that you would have a better understanding of your health by having a healthbar. It seems like both systems have no trouble dictating remainging health. Which is why I suggest using both systems. Yes, a healthbar would know exactly at 65% while visual impairments would only have an estimation, but neither would reach 50% without being well aware, so ultimately, it has no affect on the gameplay. I still say that both systems would work, and should both be implemented, for the player to decide which to use.

[mshield]

Also voted 'other'.

I like the CoD4 system and I'd like to see it in MO but depends if it's possible to implement it well. But I'm not particulary against healthbars.

[Rosenthorn]

Couldnt you have both systems with the option of turning off the health bar? This would satisfy all parties....

[Shizune]

Originally Posted by mshield

Also voted 'other'.

I like the CoD4 system and I'd like to see it in MO but depends if it's possible to implement it well. But I'm not particulary against healthbars.

In my opinion, using the same system as CoD4 would just be lame, since I think your health returns to normal too fast, IF they were to use it they would have to change some things, if you are critically wounded you should stay that way at least for a longer time, and it should be slower to regain full HP

[Raziel]

I would like something new. I'm sure that the originality of this title will force the devs to define a new approach in MMO player interface.

However, if I have to choose one system by comparing it to an already exiting one I'll choose, as Eknav, an Oblivion's interface style. I would choose this system for his simplicity and his efficiency. I've noticed a common point in all the good games I've played: the simplicity in starting and learning playing your character. Sometimes, creators choose to start on complex bases and ends up by obtaining a title which appears esoteric to a large majority of the players. And these kind of games doesn't survive in our exigent market....

[Rathius]

Originally Posted by Shizune

In my opinion, using the same system as CoD4 would just be lame, since I think your health returns to normal too fast, IF they were to use it they would have to change some things, if you are critically wounded you should stay that way at least for a longer time, and it should be slower to regain full HP

We're not talking about the health regen, and it was stated before in this thread. This is about the Visual Feedback for changes in health, not the mechanics of how health functions.

[Shizune]

Originally Posted by Rathius

We're not talking about the health regen, and it was stated before in this thread. This is about the Visual Feedback for changes in health, not the mechanics of how health functions.

Oh soz, read the wrong post lol ^^

[lazyasian224]

Originally Posted by Cye

That re-raises my initial question. If you know when you are above 80%, between 80% and 50%, between 50% and 20%, between 20% and 5%, and below 5%, how is it possible that you would have a better understanding of your health by having a healthbar. It seems like both systems have no trouble dictating remainging health. Which is why I suggest using both systems. Yes, a healthbar would know exactly at 65% while visual impairments would only have an estimation, but neither would reach 50% without being well aware, so ultimately, it has no affect on the gameplay. I still say that both systems would work, and should both be implemented, for the player to decide which to use.

its not about having a better understand of your health. The point is to force the player away from staring at their own healthbars and make them focus on their opponent. Plus, knowing exactly how much health you have left alters gameplay from when you only know a general estimation of your health in the way which i gave in my post before. It actually does make a difference

[wrath]

dimming vision would make this MMO just stick out a bit more from the others ^^
honestly, i think healthbars are nice, but this game seems to be heading towards realism, and i think the vision dimming might seut it best.

[Arxon Havenloft]

As long as there isn't any flashy red lights or anything else similarly anti-immersive. 007 James Bond crap is fine in Console games, but I'd like a little more creativity and/or realism in a computer game.

Rosenthorn... The obvious problem with that option is that anyone who decides to turn their healthbars off would be at a serious disadvantage compared to those that didn't. Therefore, it does not satisfy both parties. (Unless the healthbar in question is your own and not your enemies then I can see it as somewhat fair as long as there are other methods to inform us that we are dying).

[Resin]

How about audio clues? breathing or heartbeat.
My only problem with dimming vision is that some battles might be dimly lit to start with. Reddening vision perhaps? Or tunneling vision might be best, this actually occurs to people entering shock.

[Arxon Havenloft]

Well, if there were hitboxes I wouldn't mind seeing some sort of small statue of our character color coded with the accurate amount of damage dealt to each limb or hitbox. This could even go further to include damage to armor or something.. Of course that is not much different that a health bar though to have hitboxes it'd be worth it.

[OMGPIE]

I think that there should be dimming vision along with heartbeat being very audiable and some blood in your vision that is falling down your face.

[Arxon Havenloft]

Originally Posted by OMGPIE

I think that there should be dimming vision along with heartbeat being very audiable and some blood in your vision that is falling down your face.

Not everyone plays with the sound on. I, for example, sometimes enjoy playing with my music running in the background therefore the game sound is off. Or at least really low.

I also don't see what the fascination with bloody eyes is here.. I just never liked that approach. I pretty much hinders any nice quality screenshot that I would like to take while in combat that's for sure. Not to mention how fake it just seems to have something such as that implemented. Very anti-immersive.

Dimming vision is better than bloody vision, though I also think of it as a balance issue. And the ridiculousness of your vision dimming when you're low of health and then becoming perfect again when healed and then dimming again and being perfect again over and over and over just seems stupid to me.

The only affect that I can agree with is slower movement speed or agility/dexterity. Ultima Online did a good job with this as each swing of your weapon would decrease your dexterity and eventually you would hit zero dexterity and swing, or even run, very slowly. However, this does still leave you extremely weak to any battle that may follow before you've had a chance to recouparate.

Honestly, while I think that healthbars for your enemies, or even friends should not exist, I really don't mind the idea for us to have healthbars for ourselves. It's the only true way to know exactly what we've got left in our systems. There is no way for us to become the character and feel everything that it feels, therefore we need some sort of indicator and something that we can notice somewhat easily.

Friends and Enemies on the other hand would have to be judged by their composure or on how they act throughout the battle. There is no way for us to know for sure how they are feeling, therefore healthbars for them are ridiculous.

[lazyasian224]

Originally Posted by Arxon Havenloft

Dimming vision is better than bloody vision, though I also think of it as a balance issue. And the ridiculousness of your vision dimming when you're low of health and then becoming perfect again when healed and then dimming again and being perfect again over and over and over just seems stupid to me

which is why most of us dont want healing to be possible while your fighting someone...

[Arxon Havenloft]

Originally Posted by lazyasian224

which is why most of us dont want healing to be possible while your fighting someone...

That's kind of pushing the limits isn't it? It's always been possible in most games.. It's also a form of teamwork, and strategy.. Lead roles such as tanks and healers (I'm not speaking in terms of classes here, I am not saying warriors or priests) take a hard hit as well. I'm not suggesting that it couldn't work, I just think that it would be hard to swallow.

I know that crosshealing in UO was something that I was really good at. I am also worried about the length of a battle that doesn't involve healing. A fight in UO wouldn't have lasted longer than a few seconds without it.

[Dainbramaged]

health bars are fine. just because you can see your health bar. doesnt mean you should see your enemies health bar.

health of people in your group.
health of people you are allied to.

your enemy? only way to know if if he is about dead is to kill him and make it so while he is staggering away. any reductions in movement or fighting ability though shouldnt kick in until lower health percentages... 10-20% maybe.

[Arxon Havenloft]

Originally Posted by Dainbramaged

health of people in your group.
health of people you are allied to.

You were on the right track aside from this... Why should you know the health of the people in your group or your allies? You cannot feel their wounds.. I think that allies and group members (If there are groups in this game) should be assessed just as you assess your enemy. Are they swinging or moving more slowly than usual? It may be time to heal them.

[auutumn]

Visual feedback, I think, is where all games need to head in the future. It's more in line with the real world and forces the player to understand their environment and the players/mobs/NPCs within them.

For some it may take time to get use to this new idea, especially dependent on how it's implemented and the extent of the visual effects. In any case, there could be a server that allows players to use health bars and whatnot when needed. Alternatively, in the start area, a graphical tutorial should be implemented that shows how to use the new visual feedback system...pointing out to users when a mob is damaged, poisoned, stunned, etc.

[Arxon Havenloft]

I disagree with the tutorial. These are things that are actually entertaining for players to figure out for themselves. Think of early UO. You knew nothing about the game and the whole mix of the world, the lore, the creatures, the combat and skill systems, etc.. just all felt so much bigger than you. I feel as if beginner areas and tutorials ruin that right from the start.

Visual feedback is of course necessary for others, but there really isn't anything that I've been able to think of better than a healthbar for ourselves. Unless virtual reality jumps ahead in technology real soon and has little pain inflicter devices to let us know we're hurt. If you hit me it could hurt whether I react slowly to it, get blurred vision, draw blood, etc.. Or not. The pain however is there. You cannot visually identify pain within ourselves on a computer screen. Healthbars are just necessary here.

[Resin]

Originally Posted by Arxon Havenloft

You were on the right track aside from this... Why should you know the health of the people in your group or your allies? You cannot feel their wounds.. I think that allies and group members (If there are groups in this game) should be assessed just as you assess your enemy. Are they swinging or moving more slowly than usual? It may be time to heal them.

I think this should be a healer skill -empathic sight-or some such thing.

If anyone recalls the visual cue from were-wolf mode in oblivion - this is what I think it should look like along with a heartbeat sound when you were near death 1st person. Purely for immersive reasons - let players do custom toggles and settings for when or if it starts and if their health bar is showing (but show the bar and set the effect at 12% for the default).