Unlocking Races

[Dangrel]

What do you think about the idea of having to unlock a race before you can play it? For example...

Humans would be the default race that everybody starts out playing as. Then, if you want to be able to create something like a half-orc, there would be requirements you have to meet. You may have to go to a half-orc city and after completing certain quests you would unlock them as a playable race.

Common races would be easy to unlock, maybe taking only an hour or two to complete the requirements. But there could be rare races too, and those could take a very long time to unlock.

Or instead of just humans, maybe all common races would be playable from the beginning. As your character gets stronger, they're able to explore more difficult areas of the world, and discover new races that you then have to find a way to unlock them.

[SkirmCard]

Originally Posted by Dangrel

What do you think about the idea of having to unlock a race before you can play it? For example...

I'm not sure if that goes with the spirit of this game, it being a sandbox game people should be able to do whatever they want, including being able to play any of the races they want.

Originally Posted by Dangrel

Humans would be the default race that everybody starts out playing as. Then, if you want to be able to create something like a half-orc, there would be requirements you have to meet. You may have to go to a half-orc city and after completing certain quests you would unlock them as a playable race.

Common races would be easy to unlock, maybe taking only an hour or two to complete the requirements. But there could be rare races too, and those could take a very long time to unlock.

Or instead of just humans, maybe all common races would be playable from the beginning. As your character gets stronger, they're able to explore more difficult areas of the world, and discover new races that you then have to find a way to unlock them.

The problem I see with this is balance. If everyone can be human, and there's something special about the other races, why would anyone want to play a human? The only thing humans would be trying to do is unlock the other races so they can start playing the open ended part of the game once they get the race they want.

If anything this sounds kind of like trying to implement levels in the game without actually using levels. In other MMO's, I know many people spend their entire game play not really enjoying the game fully, but instead just trying to get to the highest level, get the best items, etc.

I just really hope for a game that I can pick up the skills pretty quickly then just start enjoying the game with my own personal goals rather than some fabricated ones that I have to do to be as strong as the other people who obsess over having the highest numbers in whatever they think is important.



I don't mean to attack or anything, just sharing my opinions

[Rathius]

I would agree with Skirm on this. Unlocking races doesn't sound right, and it would mean there's something special about them otherwise there would be no reason to bother with them. Having people work to unlock an appearance doesn't seem right, especially one like a race.
_____
On second thought, I could see this happening for very specific reasons. Like the race does not have the capabilities to reproduce itself. So instead, there would be a ritual to ascend into that race. It would almost be like the way the guilds are described... you have to meet certain requirements to join the guild and earn that title. So in this way, you could become that race with those certain types of restrictions/benefits.

[Dangrel]

Points well taken, and I agree with each of them. Perhaps not such a good idea after all.

[Traceur]

no for indevidual 'unlock race per player" quests, but... as for the idea of unlocking a race for the whole game/server, i am actually quite fond of it, as it allows the players to determine the role of racial diversity and what to make of it - should the new race have equal rights? should they be assigned only specific roles in the society? should it be exploited under a form of slavery? is it too much trouble to keep around and should be x-communicated from the rest of the civilized world to let them be on their own? or is the threat so big they need to go extinct and kill-on-sight & hunted down?

so in a way, this is actually a very sandboxish way of intreducing new races to the game.

[osteo]

I dont like the unlocking the race thing either. I'm not saying no though. If it is done pretty cool i guess it would be ok. It would have to meet certain things to be ok.

1) They are balanced with the rest of the races.
2) Everyone has to unlock them
3) No negative things should be against this race
A) nobody would ever unlock the race.
4) Everyone has a chance to unlock them as well, it shouldn't be given to a select few.

The only problem i have is why should you have to unlock a race to play it? This game wont need more end game content so dont give me that over used cliche

[Manorothh]

I do not believe that it is a good idea.

[Dangrel]

Originally Posted by Traceur

no for indevidual 'unlock race per player" quests, but... as for the idea of unlocking a race for the whole game/server, i am actually quite fond of it, as it allows the players to determine the role of racial diversity and what to make of it - should the new race have equal rights? should they be assigned only specific roles in the society? should it be exploited under a form of slavery? is it too much trouble to keep around and should be x-communicated from the rest of the civilized world to let them be on their own? or is the threat so big they need to go extinct and kill-on-sight & hunted down?

so in a way, this is actually a very sandboxish way of intreducing new races to the game.

I like this idea a lot more than my original one, and I can imagine it would create a lot of interesting scenarios.

[Seraxes]

Unlock Races, or Classes is one of my favorite feature, that hasn't been yet implemented right in an MMO yet - though Raph Koster tried in SWG, it was utterly screwed up by SOE later.
The basic idea behind the unlock class is: more risk, more effort - more reward.

Since this is fantasy setting, unlock races/classes could be:
- Dragon
- Vampire
- Demon
- Angel
- Demigod
- Lich
- Hero(epic version of any fantasy class)

There could be one, two(an evil and a good alignment), or more unlock classes, depending on game design and structure.
There should be only one unlock character per account available.
The way of unlocking should be mystical, through exploring, experimenting, solving riddles, PvP and PvE portions of the game. (I got many ideas for the unlocking methods, but I'll keep those for now, who knows, maybe the devs of this MMO can utilize them - most likely wont, but it sounds good :P)
It must not be easy and fast and should be an optional for end-game content.
Limited permadeath should be there for the unlock class. This would mean, that your unlock character would suffer permadeath if the character dies more, than once within a given time period.
The unlock characters would be "content" for the game, as their attendance in live events(PvP&PvE both) would be needed for their progression.
Also the unlock class should be limited some way to be dependent on other regular players. This could be limited skill-tree access, ie. to crafter, or regular healing skills.
The unlock class is often called an alpha class, since the unique active or,and passive skill granted to it give an edge, or superiority over regular characters. This is to be decided by the developers. Also the unlock classes should be encouraged to fight each other more and discouraged to grief regular players.
It is very important, that regular players who do not wish to play an unlock character and are devoted to their regular class, race or character must be rewarded as well, trough ranking systems. It is also very important, that player should not be able to exploit a ranking system, timelock, upkeep cost, duel/vote for positions, council/leader positions with high responsibility should be elements of a ranking system.

[Rathius]

The problem with most of these suggestions is that people seem to want things unlocked that are very powerful. Dragons, Angles, Demons.....?!? How can you possibly balance these things in a world of creatures of relatively human-like abilties without making the game gear dependant as well as nerfing the race or class so hard that it's only remaining attribute is what it looks likes??

People also say it's done all the time, look at the literature! No, no it's not... it's ONE exceptional person succeeding where many have failed before them. And if you suggest that they make it open to everyone, you start to kill the game and the prestige of such races/classes. Once you make everyone special, nobody is special.

[Seraxes]

Originally Posted by Rathius

The problem with most of these suggestions is that people seem to want things unlocked that are very powerful. Dragons, Angles, Demons.....?!? How can you possibly balance these things in a world of creatures of relatively human-like abilties without making the game gear dependant as well as nerfing the race or class so hard that it's only remaining attribute is what it looks likes??

People also say it's done all the time, look at the literature! No, no it's not... it's ONE exceptional person succeeding where many have failed before them. And if you suggest that they make it open to everyone, you start to kill the game and the prestige of such races/classes. Once you make everyone special, nobody is special.

When you create a prestige class in an MMO you don't look for balancing it with other classes, it is a prestige class. A player who put the time and effort into unlocking it will receive the rewards for it.
What, or who is very powerful in a fantasy setting, it's hard to tell, you can read many fantasy stories, where humans become so powerful, they can face a dragon, or demon alon. I know those are heros, but isn't it the point of playing a fantasy game to become a hero?
I pretty much share your concernes though, as I wrote in my post above, the design must be flawless, the way of unlocking must be at least partly secretive and if the players ever figure it out, it has to be changed.
Also there must be a number of discouraging factors, so not everyone would pursue to unlock, but for those who are commited there should be reward.
If the game has a lot of end-game content by design, then there is many alternative options for players, ie. becoming a king, an archbishop, general of an army, Warlord, Head of Crafting, or Trading guild, all with incredible powers. This way you can make sure a prestige class wont become common. And at this point the Limited Permadeath setting helps you a lot as well(Also mentioned above).

[catmorbid]

This IS a very interesting idea, but truly not one without flaws. Unlockable races would be the perfect way to represent races that are meant to be very rare lore-wise. However, these races shouldn't be overpowerful compared to common races, even though that is the most common initial approach. Instead, they should only have some slight advantage compared to other races, something to make the player who unlocks the race feel "cool!" not something that will immediately turn the table over and allow them to kick common races' ass with no effort at all. Preferably with a negative ability to counter the positive one as well.

That would be the exact wrong approach, because it would simply make these races the most sought race ever, and people would find ways to unlock them, and the whole nice idea behind the concept would be lost, because you would just have a group of super people and then the common shit - who will soon reincarnate as super people, thanks to teh intarnet.

[dawnofdeath]

I don't really see the upside or usefulness to have to unlock races..
That would mean a lot lesser variation of races among the players, especially at the beginning.
And if i for example wanted to play a half orc, the idea of having to start as a human and do various quests etc etc just to play the race I want just sound like a time waster.

However maybe you can make something else out of it. For example if you play as a human, later in game you could pick different destinies. One example could be that if magic in the lore is an evil thing you could choose to become a sinner to really learn the ancient secrets of the art and from all the use of magic your soul becomes more corrupted and eventually you become this foul looking being, maybe not a undead but a human with small demon like feature, hard to explain but the looks of a sinner.
Of course people don't have to roleplay evil just because they look more evil, thats up to the player..

Just an example of a suggestion perhaps you get my point even if my explanation wasn't all that good.

And of course these new "races" or what you call them shouldn't be more powerful than ie a normal human. It's just a path the player can choose if he wants mainly for the apperances and/or roleplaying purposes.

[Death Saved]

What they said plus it would be a rather lame time sink.

[M-Demon]

Originally Posted by Death Saved

What they said plus it would be a rather lame time sink.

And the fact that it can be used as a way to increase revenue such as how Shadowbane implemented the idea.

In the end, they will become available to all the players anyway - so why not just let them pick all races from the start?

I say a big emphatic "NO!" to unlockable races.

[Hardwire]

Although I have really never been a great fan of unlocking a new race I am not totally against it either.
This would make for an interesting worldwide event quest if everyone could be involved, not just high end guilds who are powerful enough.
Also how about a race unlocking worldwide event where we didn't know the race being unlocked>? IMO some ppl would see /quest- unlock a 1/2 rat 1/2
chicken race to and think nah.
Not knowing would get more involved.
In the end I think all races should probrably be unlocked @ release. Makes things alot easier and fun.

[BlackOrc]

Unlocking classes does not fit with an MMORPG. Especially Mortal Online. Where is the diversity if everyone is forced into playing one race, that race is a majority. You have an unbalanced world.

Besides, I don't want to have to level a human in order to play as a half-orc. Why would I pay for a game which forces me to play in a way I don't want to. I want to enjoy the game, not torture myself first before I can enjoy a game I've just bought.

MMORPGs require you to develop a character, and that development takes a long time. If I lose interest be being forced to play a character I find dull, I will not be coming back. The last thing an MMO wants to do is lose players. It's a Massive Multiplayer Online. Not a Massive Empty Online Game.

[OMGPIE]

While its cool to unlock stuff in games I don't think unlocking something like races would be very good for MO or MMO's in general. MO is a sandbox and it would be very sandbox if you had to do all this stuff just to be able to play as a race so I would have to say no.

[Esto]

/agree
Unlocking races would be mostly a waste of time. Then again, skilling up is kind of unlocking, 'cept you use the time to pick at the lock. :S

[mshield]

Nah, maybe other stuff but unlocking races is a bad idea.

[Revoid]

lock gnomes and halflings and throw away the key (dwarfs are cool tho.)

[Thay2k]

I think this is a bad idea and would put of many players aswell. I want to play a darned half-orc and I don't want to have to play the game once to then be able to play it how I wanted to especially if im paying a monthly fee for it.

[Crasher86]

I think this wasnt the complete wrong idea. If you read all informations on hp you have to know that the DEVA skills are influenced by all different chars on your account.

But an other way would be nice too. Like if you choose a race the first time you will become an ~big tutorial quest. Forcing you to get informations about the race too.

Even if this is an PvP MMORPG its still an ROLE PLAY GAME. would be nice if some will choose their path of role playing instead of kiddy running threw world shouting. "I will kill you", "bah you only win because your equip is better" "noob" "f*c* y**r mum" ...
sure it depens on the character he plays too.


If this game will come out i hope there are beautiful skies at night and nice rain animations. I liked it to sit on a bridge watching the ..... ups wrong theme.

[Elfvis]

I like unlocking characters in street fighter not mmo's : P

[darkghost]

teriible idea i hate this kinds of ideas where u hafto unluck races to much shit to do
noooooooooooo to unlcking races

[Laihei]

Originally Posted by Seraxes

Since this is fantasy setting, unlock races/classes could be:
- Dragon
- Vampire
- Demon
- Angel
- Demigod
- Lich
- Hero(epic version of any fantasy class)

Any more generic races? :P

Sorry, just found them a bit bland. Things like that kinda ruin the game. You have like 90% of the people being those and 10% sticking to theirs.

How many people wouldn't want to be a Demi-god or vampire... or a Dragon-vampire-angel-demon. Or some dead smelly thing that casts time stop and imprisons your character with unsaveable spells... sorry, rant. ;P

[Mathael]

Originally Posted by Seraxes

Since this is fantasy setting, unlock races/classes could be:
- Dragon
- Vampire
- Demon
- Angel
- Demigod
- Lich
- Hero(epic version of any fantasy class)

Judging by the races available so far though, I would see the MO universe to be low towards medium fantasy setting. Sure there are orcs, but they are social outcasts and miscreants where as the other two races follow pre-existing human cultures. The Tindremenes are very Romen-esque while the Khurites are nomadic, mongolian/native American type of influence.

Mythical creatures is one thing, but playing Demons, Vampires, Angels etc. just doesn't seem very interesting to me. You would also think that these types of 'races' would be in the absolute minority and would be hunted to near extinction.