Stopping RWT?

Jake · 31st August 2008, 04:17

[I checked around and didn't see any topics similar to this, but if there are, feel free to lock this (and link me to the other topic

)]

First of all, this looks like a great game, and I'm looking forward to it.

I was wondering what precautions you have taken to limit/stop real-world trading in the game.
Many MMO's are plagued by it, and it can create a rather negative feel to a game if someone is able to just buy the best weapons rather than earn them.
One game in particular took great measures to eliminate it, but in doing so, all but ruined PvP and trading, so I don't want anything like that to happen here.

I'm not looking for any real specifics on the precautions, but a general overview would be much appreciated.

Landor · 31st August 2008, 04:24

With your first post I would like to welcome you to the forums. And that is a good question to ask. But saddly I haven't a clue to what the answer is. But I would also like to know.

But most likely they will have report someone who is doing that and their account will be banned. Also you can't sell the stuff on EBay as they just remove it now.

no-one · 31st August 2008, 04:35

Unfortunately the reason this goes on is that it is easier to make money in the real world than it is in a MMO.

Its also really hard for the devs to stop it because the exchange of real currency happens outside of the game.

We need new laws to regulate this. That isn't the complete answer because there are many countries involved.

Zigkirby · 31st August 2008, 04:41

I really don't think there will be much of a market in MO to make real life cash. Seeing as items not only degrade on their own, but items don't matter as much as skill. I don't think many rational people would pay $20-200 for items when they could lose them in less than 10 minutes.

Heck.

What's from stopping the seller from stalking the buyer and taking his stuff back?

Lachrymose · 31st August 2008, 05:10

yea, i'm with zig. there's plenty of other better games for farmers to play than MO.

a) weapons/armor degrade over time, like zig said, so selling these items won't be as lucrative since people wouldn't pay as much for these items
b) mobs don't drop weapons/armor/money (most don't anyways), since they drop realistic loot. so farming in general doesn't sound to be very profitable.
c) full loot... why would a farmer want to farm in a game with ffa pvp and full loot when he can safely farm in one of the many other carebear no loot, no risk games?

also, people won't be buying accounts, since it will be relatively easy to get your character skilled up (devs said 1 week of playing to get a character ready for pvp)... so you probably wouldn't buy an account unless the player just had a ton of money on it, so i don't think real world trading will be rampant in MO... it will happen, sure, there really isn't a good way to stop that... but it won't be a huge problem.

Tickle · 31st August 2008, 08:38

We also have the benefit of good devs. I wouldn't put it past money-grabbing companies like Blizzard to endorse the goldsellers, or even control them, just for some extra profit.

Lonesin · 31st August 2008, 09:04

You obviously came from Runescape. Runescape brainwashed their player base into believing their actions justified the circumstances that led to them. This is complete bull crap. The problem Runescape was having was that people were using stolen credit cards to create accounts. Eventually the payments would be recognized as being purchased by the thief or whatever. Banks would require Jagex (makers of runescape) to repay with interested the money illegally spent paying for the game. So essentially the problem was they were losing money.

The people who were paying for RS with stolen credit cards are the same people who created bots and performed Real World Trading (RWT). Logically *sarcasm* the best way to deal with this was get rid of any form free interaction between players, except for talking. They made it so the only trades you could perform were ones where the items being traded were of an equal sum that was programmed into the game. This means for example that you cannot give a friend who just started playing some item.

They also went from a full loot pvp to no pvp. There is an exception in the form of a mini game, but it's a poor excuse.

The most fundamental reason this shouldn't be a problem is that you need to actually buy something initially to play MO. In terms of game play MO will not be a grind eccentric game. Items will not be the ultimate in the game seeing as nothing is permanent. Free for all anywhere, full loot pvp will also greatly deter those people looking to set up bots. If you see someone you think is a bot you can just kill them and take their stuff. On top of all that the people behind MO are just smarter and more capable.

Jake · 31st August 2008, 20:41

Mhmm, I played Runescape for a good number of years, but quickly lost interest once the measures were taken to eliminate real world trading. Although I wasn't a big fan of PvP, the skilling aspect of the game (which I enjoyed the most) relied on some form of PvP to keep up demand for items.
The game is slowly moving back towards a larger focus on PvP, but I'm hesitant to be excited.

Thank you for all the responses, they answered my question.

Zenir · 31st August 2008, 22:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by no-one

We need new laws to regulate this. That isn't the complete answer because there are many countries involved.

I think there are already laws. Don't know if it was in germany or somewhere else but, you are not allowed to sell stuff from ingame, because the ingame stuff is not your property, you only pay for beeing allowed to use the servers and the data which is property of the company (in this case SV).

The main problem (look at Lineage 2) is that the bots and so on also pay for their accounts and baning them would lead to less money for the company... ._.'

Tickle · 1st September 2008, 06:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zenir

I think there are already laws. Don't know if it was in germany or somewhere else but, you are not allowed to sell stuff from ingame, because the ingame stuff is not your property, you only pay for beeing allowed to use the servers and the data which is property of the company (in this case SV).

The laws haven't really changed anything yet, because there are so many loopholes. For example, they can say that you are paying them for the time they spent to acquire the gold, rather than for the gold itself.

It's such a weird situation.

Lonesin · 1st September 2008, 08:40

How I see it there really isn't much you can do if someone wants to sell their in game stuff. What you can do is make sure they acquired that material by legitimate means. Who are you to stop someone from giving someone else stuff in game? By the same token who are you to stop someone from paying someone else for a favor? What you can do though is make it so the people are having to actually play to get the merchandise and not just farm it with scripted programs.

31st August 2008, 04:17	#1 (permalink)
Jake Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: PA Age: 22 Posts: 15 Rep Power: 1	Stopping RWT? [I checked around and didn't see any topics similar to this, but if there are, feel free to lock this (and link me to the other topic )] First of all, this looks like a great game, and I'm looking forward to it. I was wondering what precautions you have taken to limit/stop real-world trading in the game. Many MMO's are plagued by it, and it can create a rather negative feel to a game if someone is able to just buy the best weapons rather than earn them. One game in particular took great measures to eliminate it, but in doing so, all but ruined PvP and trading, so I don't want anything like that to happen here. I'm not looking for any real specifics on the precautions, but a general overview would be much appreciated.

31st August 2008, 04:24	#2 (permalink)
Landor Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 610 Rep Power: 2	With your first post I would like to welcome you to the forums. And that is a good question to ask. But saddly I haven't a clue to what the answer is. But I would also like to know. But most likely they will have report someone who is doing that and their account will be banned. Also you can't sell the stuff on EBay as they just remove it now. __________________ Official Recruiter of The King's Dragons PM me if you have any questions about joining the guild http://www.thekingsdragons.com/ If I post with out a quote in it, and I say your screenname in it, I'm referring to your last post and nothing else. If I have quotes in it, I'm most likely talking to more then one person or referring to some other post other then your last. So please respect that

31st August 2008, 04:35	#3 (permalink)
no-one Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: no-were Posts: 245 Rep Power: 1	Unfortunately the reason this goes on is that it is easier to make money in the real world than it is in a MMO. Its also really hard for the devs to stop it because the exchange of real currency happens outside of the game. We need new laws to regulate this. That isn't the complete answer because there are many countries involved. __________________ Please allow me to introduce myself I'm a man of wealth and taste I've been around for a long, long year Stole many a man's soul and faith

31st August 2008, 05:10	#5 (permalink)
Lachrymose Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: SC, United States Guild: Aegis Imperium Playstyle: PK/PvP Age: 22 Posts: 2,273 Rep Power: 6	yea, i'm with zig. there's plenty of other better games for farmers to play than MO. a) weapons/armor degrade over time, like zig said, so selling these items won't be as lucrative since people wouldn't pay as much for these items b) mobs don't drop weapons/armor/money (most don't anyways), since they drop realistic loot. so farming in general doesn't sound to be very profitable. c) full loot... why would a farmer want to farm in a game with ffa pvp and full loot when he can safely farm in one of the many other carebear no loot, no risk games? also, people won't be buying accounts, since it will be relatively easy to get your character skilled up (devs said 1 week of playing to get a character ready for pvp)... so you probably wouldn't buy an account unless the player just had a ton of money on it, so i don't think real world trading will be rampant in MO... it will happen, sure, there really isn't a good way to stop that... but it won't be a huge problem. __________________ /thread I'm putting every one of you that thinks I'm a girl on my KoS list come release... ________________________________________________ Killer 100.00%, Achiever 46.67%, Explorer 46.67%, Socializer 6.67%

31st August 2008, 08:38	#6 (permalink)
Tickle Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: England Age: 18 Posts: 120 Rep Power: 1	We also have the benefit of good devs. I wouldn't put it past money-grabbing companies like Blizzard to endorse the goldsellers, or even control them, just for some extra profit. __________________

31st August 2008, 04:41	#4 (permalink)
Zigkirby Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Detroit, Michigan Posts: 335 Rep Power: 0	I really don't think there will be much of a market in MO to make real life cash. Seeing as items not only degrade on their own, but items don't matter as much as skill. I don't think many rational people would pay $20-200 for items when they could lose them in less than 10 minutes. Heck. What's from stopping the seller from stalking the buyer and taking his stuff back?

31st August 2008, 09:04	#7 (permalink)
Lonesin Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 60 Rep Power: 1	You obviously came from Runescape. Runescape brainwashed their player base into believing their actions justified the circumstances that led to them. This is complete bull crap. The problem Runescape was having was that people were using stolen credit cards to create accounts. Eventually the payments would be recognized as being purchased by the thief or whatever. Banks would require Jagex (makers of runescape) to repay with interested the money illegally spent paying for the game. So essentially the problem was they were losing money. The people who were paying for RS with stolen credit cards are the same people who created bots and performed Real World Trading (RWT). Logically sarcasm the best way to deal with this was get rid of any form free interaction between players, except for talking. They made it so the only trades you could perform were ones where the items being traded were of an equal sum that was programmed into the game. This means for example that you cannot give a friend who just started playing some item. They also went from a full loot pvp to no pvp. There is an exception in the form of a mini game, but it's a poor excuse. The most fundamental reason this shouldn't be a problem is that you need to actually buy something initially to play MO. In terms of game play MO will not be a grind eccentric game. Items will not be the ultimate in the game seeing as nothing is permanent. Free for all anywhere, full loot pvp will also greatly deter those people looking to set up bots. If you see someone you think is a bot you can just kill them and take their stuff. On top of all that the people behind MO are just smarter and more capable.

31st August 2008, 20:41	#8 (permalink)
Jake Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: PA Age: 22 Posts: 15 Rep Power: 1	Mhmm, I played Runescape for a good number of years, but quickly lost interest once the measures were taken to eliminate real world trading. Although I wasn't a big fan of PvP, the skilling aspect of the game (which I enjoyed the most) relied on some form of PvP to keep up demand for items. The game is slowly moving back towards a larger focus on PvP, but I'm hesitant to be excited. Thank you for all the responses, they answered my question.

1st September 2008, 08:40	#11 (permalink)
Lonesin Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 60 Rep Power: 1	How I see it there really isn't much you can do if someone wants to sell their in game stuff. What you can do is make sure they acquired that material by legitimate means. Who are you to stop someone from giving someone else stuff in game? By the same token who are you to stop someone from paying someone else for a favor? What you can do though is make it so the people are having to actually play to get the merchandise and not just farm it with scripted programs.