We are missing the boat on lootable corpses

[Visage]

Poeple seem to think that a simple full-loot system is the end-all. I say it is way too simplistic. Fix the corpse camping, lowbie ganking argument by making most armor useless to vendors. Think about it. Did thieves target poor people? No, they went after rich nobles. My feeling is that the people with the best armor and weapons should be the ones with bodyguards, and a healthy dose of paranoia, not the poor sap with the junky stuff. Sure, kill that guy but deal with being an outlaw, cut off from towns and supplies. But....If you can waylay that noble with the armor and weapons and gold, you can now equip yourself.

Murdering waylayers should not be able to grind on crappy players, they should naturally gravitate to the best of the best.

[Kalafax]

So this all sounds like pluses, I guess I'm missing the point of this post?

[Lachrymose]

the problem here is, it might not be so easy to tell who's rich and who's not. if you see a guy running around in cheap armor, that doesn't mean he doesn't have a goody bag full of loot. i'll personally attack anyone i see, just to be sure.

[lazyasian224]

kill all... leave nothing left 'cept the blood soaked dirt.
yes that's rite, ima sell your dead body on the black market.

i for one dont want vendors. I want to stash up on armor so that when i start hiring guards for my keep, i've got plenty of stuff for them to go out and die in
so i guess your armor will be useful for me

[Seraxes]

IMO full corpse looting in an open PvP game is stupid.
I remember why I left UO last time. My lowbie was camped by players who had everything in the game and the items they looted off my poor character every time they killed me were useless for them, they did it simply to grief me. Finally everyone left the shard, but a few maxed out players.
If there is full corpse looting, there must be serious sanctions and game mechanism making sure it can't turn into a full scale griefing.
A solution could be limiting the weight a character can carry, this way it would be impossible to loot everything, griefer can simply go around this though by deleting everything the loot.
A better solution is to make armor and equipment cheap and easy to replace, it's still a major pain to go back home, or to a shop every time when you die - for me it'd not be worth to play a game with any of the options above.
Probably the best solution is to implement a flag system, that could work trough items like runes, or any other way, to "soulbound" items to your character. The most important items like armor, or weapon should not be lootable from a player corpse
Though some weapons or armor, or other items could be "relics", or "epic" items with outstanding attributes - highest stats in game - and could be lootable. This would make PvP even more exciting.
Mined materials, crafting components should be lootable too, except for some some specific ones, ie. quest items for crafting.

[Lachrymose]

seraxes.. read up a little more on MO and i think you'll be pleased at what you find.

Players can hold about twice as much stuff as in RL.

that means, if you're a newb and you get ganked, your assailant probably won't want to waste his backpack space for your lowbie items.

also, gear will be easy to replace. it won't be like in WoW where you spend hours trying to get one piece of gear. most armor and weapons will be crafted, so if you have the money, you can replace your stuff pretty easily. also, pvp isn't gear dependent, so you won't have to get the very best gear in order to compete against someone who does have the high end gear. although, it certainly wouldn't be a good idea to run around naked.. just find some relatively inexpensive gear that you're willing to part with, and you'll be set for pvp.

there will be no wow-style epic items in the game in a sense that they are uber and will decimate anyone in the player's path. if there are uber items, i want them to be unique (only one of each in the world, and only a handful of various uber items), and of course they would have to be lootable, as it increases your risk of possessing the item (since everyone will want to kill you for it).

soulbinding weapons/armor is a very slippery slope and was the ultimate carebear stare that finished off UO... i certainly hope gear can't be blessed, and there really shouldn't be any desire to, since pvp isn't gear based and armor/weapons will wear out over time and you'll have to replace them anyways.

[Tickle]

Originally Posted by Lachrymose

i'll personally attack anyone i see, just to be sure.

I look forward to it <3




And also, lowbie ganking? Lowbie should hopefully not be a term that applies to MO.

[Joszek]

Originally Posted by Tickle

And also, lowbie ganking? Lowbie should hopefully not be a term that applies to MO.

There won't be lowbies. Only newbies, until their ass get ganked pretty fast, and they understand WTF is MO about


btw: I'll force my eyes to see in 360° to prevent "lacucaracha we gotcha !" ;D

[sturmur]

Seraxes, full loot should be placed in this game just for the reason that the developers boast their game as being "sandbox". How can they say that everything else is supposed to be realistic and they turn around and allow your equipment travel with you when you die.

Unfortunately, I love the level of customization in MMOs in terms of the different types of armours and most of the time it takes quite a lot of money and time to acquire these items. In this MMO the amount of time or money it takes for you to get the armour or weapon it shouldn't just be a 1 or 2 AP bonus but something measurable and that gives you a fairly good advantage.

As you remember, you could always buy the standard Plate armour from the vendors, and you could compete in PvP easily. But, if you went and crafted yourself one of the rare metal armours, you would be rewarded for your efforts. Again, if you got it looted then tough shit, you've got to work again to get another set and in the meantime get better at PvP so you don't have to lose all your items everytime.

For me, I thought UO was the best MMO ever created. The EQs, WoWs and ACs had better graphics, but the ability for the player to truely live in this sandbox world where you can do anything was amazing.

[Oda]

Originally Posted by Visage

...

There's a flaw in your idea. After taking everything from a corpse there's no point in waiting for him to ress, unless you want to prove a point or he's a smacktalker. In fact camping someone can be counter productive, because the more time you spend in one place the faster a group of antis will find you and whoop your ass. So, full loot makes camping people pretty pointless.

Now about the lowbie ganking stuff - my personal believe is that there should be nothing to prevent it from happening. But, knowing how shallow minded and weak people will try to take advantage of newbies, I'll be alright with any system for protection, UNLESS IT CREATES A SAFE ZONE IN THE OPEN WORLD! That's right. NO safe grinding areas and especially NO safe towns - to Trammel lovers I say GTFO.

If you insist on having a system for them newbs, do it like this:
Once you create a character, you are protected from people with more skill points than you (for example). However, this protection expires when one of the following takes place:

1) Your ingame playtime exceeds 10-12 hours
10-12 hours because casual players play roughly 2 hours a day and not even every day, so they can have almost a week long protection. A power player can play for 10 hours straight, but he'll probably lose protection before that, see bellow why.

2) You reach a set amount of skill points
The number should be an average for a casual player after 10-12 hours played, so you can imagine a power player reaching the mark well before his time runs out.

3) You leave the designated newbie area(s)
Basically these areas will be close to the first player hub, but will not be protected - once you're past the newbie status, you can have massive PvP fights in these areas to your hearts desire. The idea behind this is to prevent people from making invulnerable alts just to spy on enemy cities. It's just a thought, because we still don't know what MOs system with dead players will be (for example if you'll be able to wander freely in ghost form and such).

4) You attack a player
Simple - while you're a newbie focus on learning the game quickly instead of being a badass kill0r. This includes taking part in guild wars too. Basically if you as a newbie are in a guild, chances are you don't need a system to protect you anyway - you have your guild. As a side not, defending yourself from attackers doesn't lift your protection.

For full loot to be worth implementing, the outcome of a fight should be determined by your character's skills, not your gear. At least that's how I feel and have experienced in different games.

[Rhygar]

Originally Posted by Seraxes

IMO full corpse looting in an open PvP game is stupid.
I remember why I left UO last time. My lowbie was camped by players who had everything in the game and the items they looted off my poor character every time they killed me were useless for them, they did it simply to grief me. Finally everyone left the shard, but a few maxed out players.
If there is full corpse looting, there must be serious sanctions and game mechanism making sure it can't turn into a full scale griefing.
A solution could be limiting the weight a character can carry, this way it would be impossible to loot everything, griefer can simply go around this though by deleting everything the loot.
A better solution is to make armor and equipment cheap and easy to replace, it's still a major pain to go back home, or to a shop every time when you die - for me it'd not be worth to play a game with any of the options above.
Probably the best solution is to implement a flag system, that could work trough items like runes, or any other way, to "soulbound" items to your character. The most important items like armor, or weapon should not be lootable from a player corpse
Though some weapons or armor, or other items could be "relics", or "epic" items with outstanding attributes - highest stats in game - and could be lootable. This would make PvP even more exciting.
Mined materials, crafting components should be lootable too, except for some some specific ones, ie. quest items for crafting.

Just about everything you said are probably going to be implemented as counters to full loot, FFA PvP.