Interactive Bodies (or corpses)

[Vanndal]

Alright the topic might had been a bit confusing, but this thread is meant to deal with corpses . No, not some censored things with corpses, or some strange walking dead guy that want brains.

I mean literally corpses.

To start, if any of you have played Thief they will automatically know what I mean.

If you killed a person, you could drag the corpse away or hack it up. It works wonder in Thief to kill a guard (or knock them unconscious) and then bring their bodies to a location and drop em off. So that you may continue your mission, without detection.

Also in the middle of combat, if a player becomes incapacitated or dead, you could lift up their corpse to block arrows as if he was a shield.

I know there are a few areas where it can be abused, but that's why this is opened for discussion .

[Manorothh]

Ummm...its interesting, but, whats about necrophilia? Why no ones remember never the necrophilia??
Bilges apart, i like your idea, althought I dont see it like an important thing, could be interesting(I remember thief) but, only in pve... and only while the enemies respawns, I dont see it very useful.

[Slann]

Hahahah, o mu god. And what about cut it to extract the head? (who said UO?)

[Lachrymose]

i think that would be a really interesting and useful feature. the only problem is it's far too difficult to implement this in MO. this would be heavily resource dependent, and there wouldn't be enough to support that level of interaction with the environment. in the future i'd love to see something like this, but right now, it just isn't possible in an MMO.. especially one that intends to have large scale pvp with hundreds of players on screen at one time (and hundreds of interactive bodies as well).

[M-Demon]

As Lachrymose said above, a feature such as dragging bodies and using them as shields or for other various things would be a small system in itself. It fits console games well because they are designed to incorporate things like that into the system, but it would be very complex in an MMO setting.

However. You did mention cutting up bodies. That has been done before. In Ultima Online you could actually cut up people once you killed them. You lost karma for doing so, which wasn't a big deal, but it was fun. Double click a weapon, target the corpse, and next thing you know its cut up into a bloody torso, legs, arms, and head.

The fun part is this is...!... body parts were used in many aspects of the game. Some decorated their homes with them, usually following a gruesome theme or to put the parts on an altar as if some human was sacrificed. Heads from bodies also played a somewhat important role. If the person was a murderer (PKer) and they had a bounty, you had to take their head to a guard to get the reward. You'd simply hand the NPC guard the head and if there was a bounty on that character, you got the gold! People also used heads as display in their homes to show you who all they killed. If you clicked on the head it would say;

"the head of <insert players name>".

It's amazing what players can do with simple little implementations that don't exist in your standard MMORPG. I did read that you can cut up horses/animals and eat their meat in this game. That is very similar to UO, where you cut up horses, bulls, sheep and other animals for various resources; meat to feed your dragons if you were a tamer. Meat to cook if you cooked. Leather for crafting. Wool for crafting. It was all quite interesting in retrospect.

So you may actually see something like that! Just not to the extent you are thinking.

[Vanndal]

Originally Posted by M-Demon

So you may actually see something like that! Just not to the extent you are thinking.

That's why it is a suggestion . Since it's such a crazy and fun yet, used idea that hasn't gotten around in the more modern mmorpgs.

[dawnofdeath]

Yeh might be cool but seriously what's the purpose? You thought it would be cool to hide corpses so enemies won't notice? well guess what this is a mmo and it's not hard to warn others by simply write in chat

[Rathius]

Depends on the chat system. It could be based on a distance instead of an entire 'zone'.

But even so, hiding a corpse from guards would be handy. They'd never know you did it if they can't find it.

Although, since there will be a 'respawn' of sorts, I don't know how long corpses will actually stay around. Oh look, there's my body, oh look there's another one... and another one.... I really should stop getting killed....

[dawnofdeath]

Originally Posted by Rathius

Depends on the chat system. It could be based on a distance instead of an entire 'zone'.

But even so, hiding a corpse from guards would be handy. They'd never know you did it if they can't find it.

Although, since there will be a 'respawn' of sorts, I don't know how long corpses will actually stay around. Oh look, there's my body, oh look there's another one... and another one.... I really should stop getting killed....

You honestly think there wont be any general/shout/group/guild/tell chat system? Must have been awhile since you played a mmo I guess..
Hiding corpses from guards? This isn't a single player game where guards patrol and set the alarm button on you, they will prob just aggro you if you attack someone within their aggro/cone sight range.
Yeh I highly doupt the corpses will remain long or at all after respawn since that would be unnecessary load on the servers with several thousands corpses lying about..

[Rathius]

Just because it hasn't been done in anything you've played or because it doesn't exist doesnt mean it can't be done.

Final Fantasy XI has limited range chat. /say goes a shorter distance than /shout, it's hard to grasp I know.

[Lachrymose]

Originally Posted by dawnofdeath

You honestly think there wont be any general/shout/group/guild/tell chat system? Must have been awhile since you played a mmo I guess..

yea, and most MMO's have levels, classes, massive grinds, and theme park attractions.. what's your point?

UO didn't have global chat, and i don't think MO should either.

[dawnofdeath]

Originally Posted by Lachrymose

yea, and most MMO's have levels, classes, massive grinds, and theme park attractions.. what's your point?

UO didn't have global chat, and i don't think MO should either.

My point is it's a mmo where communication is very important to say the least. UO didn't have global chat? so you couldn't chat with your group, guild or send tell messages? I don't think MO should be like that

or perhaps you meant a "ooc" (or general) chat channel?
If so I don't really understand your post.. just because there no such channel you could still communicate by other means easily.

[Rathius]

I guess it's just too much of a stretch to think you might actually have to meet up with people to talk to them. Gods forbid there actually be player interaction and no long distance chat so players can't be hermits with the luxury of chat. Wait... people will actually have to get together at an inn or other public place to discuss things, THE HORROR!!!

[dawnofdeath]

Originally Posted by Rathius

I guess it's just too much of a stretch to think you might actually have to meet up with people to talk to them. Gods forbid there actually be player interaction and no long distance chat so players can't be hermits with the luxury of chat. Wait... people will actually have to get together at an inn or other public place to discuss things, THE HORROR!!!

Yes the horror, it would suck if you wouldn't have a system to chat with your guildies and such. It's simply too convenient to pass up and I do believe it's necessary in a mmo.
FF11, yes the say and shout were specific distance range, but what mmo isn't? Like i said just because there's no global/general chat channel it doesn't mean you're not able to communicate by other means.

But the sound of your post it sounds like you only want "say" chat. Well good thing there is vent if that "horror" would occur.
But I'm highly confident that MO will have similar chat systems as seen before, unless I'm corrected by a dev.

[Rathius]

I never said that's the only chat I wanted. But I wouldn't be all bent out of shape if it were the only chat system implemented. I don't mind having to actually meet up with people to talk about things, guild, party, or otherwise.

If anything it adds to the social dynamics of the game.

[Lachrymose]

yea dawn, it's like rathius says. player interaction is extremely important in MO. i don't think they'll have global chats, but as far as group/guild chats or private tells, i'm not too sure.

i personally think they should use an in-game voice chat, rather than chat channels for guild/group chat, rather than get rid of them completely.

i can see the upside to not having guild/group chat though, and leaving any player communication up to /shout, /say, /whisper with different radii associated with each (/shout could be heard further away than /say, etc). it would mean you have to have a strategy planned out well before going into battle, because it's kinda dumb that while you're fighting, the leader can be telling the other group what to do without the other team knowing what they're talking about, even though they're standing right next to them.

but even if they did that, people would still probably use vent or other 3rd party voip, so.. meh.

[dawnofdeath]

Originally Posted by Lachrymose

yea dawn, it's like rathius says. player interaction is extremely important in MO. i don't think they'll have global chats, but as far as group/guild chats or private tells, i'm not too sure.

i personally think they should use an in-game voice chat, rather than chat channels for guild/group chat, rather than get rid of them completely.

i can see the upside to not having guild/group chat though, and leaving any player communication up to /shout, /say, /whisper with different radii associated with each (/shout could be heard further away than /say, etc). it would mean you have to have a strategy planned out well before going into battle, because it's kinda dumb that while you're fighting, the leader can be telling the other group what to do without the other team knowing what they're talking about, even though they're standing right next to them.

but even if they did that, people would still probably use vent or other 3rd party voip, so.. meh.

Imo part of being a guild is to be able to have good times with friends, and when I'm not with them it's always fun to be able to talk to them in guild chat so you don't feel "alone" when youre soloing and such. Also it's very useful to discuss tactics and such (group chat also). Would be hard to set up guild meetings if you're not able to communicate with them other than say chat etc. To me I don't really see the reason to throw that system out of the window. There is still plenty of player interraction going on and you can still meet up with your friends/guild etc for events, rping etc so to be able to communicate with each other with chat won't ruin that.
Chat systems are a very useful tool.

[Rathius]

A bilboard for posting notices of guild meetings is also a very useful tool. But I guess it's not convenient, or wait... lazy enough to meet those standards of useful. You don't need a chat system to set these up, but I guess players can't be bothred to actually go check their guild for notices.

You seem pretty stuck in your ideas without actually trying to think of other systems that can do the same thing while adding to the environment.

[Lachrymose]

well, dawn... i was going to say i think group/guild chats should be voice only, and no text, but i just remembered seeing a guild leader that was deaf, so i guess i don't think that'd be very fair...

rathius, even if they didn't have group/guild chats, people will find 3rd party programs that will let them talk anyways, which would give them a huge advantage over anyone that doesn't use them, making them pretty much required in order to be successful in pvp... which means, deaf players would automatically be at a disadvantage.

[M-Demon]

Originally Posted by dawnofdeath

You honestly think there wont be any general/shout/group/guild/tell chat system? Must have been awhile since you played a mmo I guess..
Hiding corpses from guards? This isn't a single player game where guards patrol and set the alarm button on you, they will prob just aggro you if you attack someone within their aggro/cone sight range.
Yeh I highly doupt the corpses will remain long or at all after respawn since that would be unnecessary load on the servers with several thousands corpses lying about..

As a few others have pointed out, UO didn't feature global chat in any way and it worked for the betterment of the game. Not having chat boxes/global chat and the like would not work for the betterment of current MMORPGs like WoW because they depend entirely on them. In the old days of UO, to communicate with friends one had to use 3rd party software like ICQ. This was before the age of AIM and voice chat.

UO didn't even have grouping much of its life. To talk to someone, you had to be on their screen. The one advantage UO had though was that it used a 2D Iso vie as opposed to 3D first person/3rd person perspective, so you could see everyone who spoke via text bubbles over their head. The same system wouldn't work in a 3D game like MO.

However; what I feel games like MO are going to implement is a limited chat system. There will be chat boxes, because I don't see how any 3D game could use chat otherwise, but the vicininity of how far your chat goes will be limited.

Example; You are in game and you speak. Your text appears on the chat box and is visible to anyone within your vincinty/area. This area of course would be defined by the developers. So you say something, only the people within 50 yards could hear you. Someone half a world a way, or even 200 yards away, would not hear you/see the text in their chat box.

I know this is a hard concept for people to understand if they've never been part of it before. But when you restict chat to only be visible to people near you it makes the game world so much better. The world feels more like a world - various new neccessities are created. It's nearly impossible to explain. Item selling becomes more forum driven and it also creates Item sell point hotzones. Like in UO, if you wanted to sell an item you knew where to go - the Britain West Bank. That's where most players gathered.

As for guilds, groups, and what not I don't see why the same rules couldn't apply. If the game made enough options available, say something like Message Boards in your town or a mail system, then it also becomes more realistic. Let's face it. Having global chat is like your character having a built in receiver/microphone in their head. That's not how it should be. You want a world where communication is more realistic based on the game world. If you want to organize a guild event, do it all via in game message systems. Then when you guys gather together you can see each others text because they are near you. To make it easier, so spam doesn't become a factor from other players nearby, simply make guild/party channels. Or make the ability to create private channels. The only difference is they are not global. They are dependant on a player being nearby to actually function.

As for groups. Same concept. So how do people LFG you ask? Simple. The way games work is that certain areas become popular. It's amazing how certain spots in games become player hot zones that the devs had no intention of them being. It just works that way. If you want to form a group to do something, it won't take long for people to start meeting at certain places to find others trying to do the same thing. For example; you want to start a group to go mob slay in the local dungeon. Well, you go to town or to some popular spot and start looking for others - much as you would spam across global chat - it's just you are doing it locally. If others are looking, they will be there doing the same. Group formed.

It's that simple really. It would work marvelous too - just as it did in UO. Chat features in current MMORPGs are both a mess and a joke. They function more like a damn AOL Chat Room than an actual game mechanic. Just go look at WoW.

[Rathius]

The harsh and simple way to put it, which I try and avoid most of the time, is this: Stop being lazy and interact with your game world instead of being lazy and waiting for it to come to you. Do you want a game or some automated process to do and tell you everything?

You want to interact with your guild, go to the guild hall or designated guild area. You want to know if there's a guild meeting, go to that place and ask someone or look at a billboard.

You want to talk with your 'party' well they should be around you otherwise it's pretty lazy you automatically get this telepathic link with everyone in the party. You want to know what's going on ahead of you, send a scout that needs to report back to you.

Stop being lazy.

As for deaf people being disadvantaged, well the truth of the matter is yes they are. I guess we shouldn't worry about sounds that could warn people of danger either, as it gives normal hearing people an advantage. While we're at it we should take out anything that blinks, we might throw some players in to seizures.

As for solutions to the deaf, read above. They can read text and it puts nobody at a disadvantage, well except for blind people and those who haven't learned to read. I might as well throw that out there while we're on extremes.

[Lachrymose]

rathius, even if the game doesn't have any guild/group chat. people aren't actually going to go to their guildhall to chat with them. they'll just get on vent. that's why i suggested that they have in-game voice chat, rather than force players to get 3rd party chat just to be able to compete.

[Rathius]

Well if they don't want to get on voice chat, and don't want to go to their guild, they shouldn't be in that guild, they apparently aren't too interested in taking part.

Not everyone likes vent. I know people who straight out will not get on a voice chat program, just because they don't want to use one.

A guild should be more than a glorified chat channel like it's become in so many games. Ooooh whoopy, I get a guild name, and a tabard, and a private guild chat! We're soo cool! Most probably just use them to get to the good endgame loot, they just happen to have people in there they can talk with.

[Lachrymose]

rathius, i'm thinking of it from a siege point of view. not just casually chatting with your guild. during a siege, you're going to want to use some kind of voice chat, in-game, vent, or whatever. so if there isn't something built in-game, people will just use 3rd party programs so they can coordinate a siege, raid, etc.

[Rathius]

Fine, whatever, just put it all in the game, since it'll go to 3rd party programs anyways, what do I care. I guess nobody really wants to play in an immersive world anymore. Just hand it all to me on a platter, I don't care for any aspects than winning and being lazy.

[M-Demon]

Well Rathius has a strong point.

Even with implemented voice chat, let's face it, not everyone uses voice chat even when available. As a matter of fact, the vast majority don't when its an available option.

It will never be the mainstream either because I believe most people don't like talking to other gamers in that type of setting. It's different when you are doing an event such as a guild raid/siege, I agree. But on average, most people don't use it.

Personally, I've played MMOs and games since the 80's. Even when given voice chat I rarely use it unless its with my friend. If I happen to be in guild that needs me to listen, I will listen, but rarely do I talk. I just have no real desire to talk to people voice to voice - I'd rather game. If I wanted to live speak I'd be more social ... and a lot of gamers tend to game because they arn't the most social people in the world. Voice chat just feels to personal to me and I like keeping things in game world impersonal unless I know you.

That being said, there will be people and guilds that always use it and generally they will be more coordinated and successful becasue of it. I never deny voice chats advantage. I use it with my friend to du