Battlefield Bad Company 2

[jesusj0nes]

Really, really good.

[LightsabeR]

What was wrong with this thread?

http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/2...mpany-2-a.html

[Psyknx]

This thread = facts. That thread = speculations.

Battlefield Bad Company 2
Really, really good.

[NizeGuy]

Indeed really, really good! Indeed...

What's your gamenicks!?

[Sabbathius]

Yep, I like it very much, even with one mode and one map and a handful of unlocks.

Though I feel they made a mistake in PC version by not allowing us to unlock all the guns in beta. My opinion is that the Assault XM8 is far too good, for example. I unlocked the next gun, but still found myself using the XM8 more than anything else. And looking at stats, I expect Vintorez of Recon kit to suck too, it's an SMG with a scope for crying out loud! But we won't know until full version release. Also the 012SG, the perk that increases shotgun accuracy at the cost of damage, doesn't get unlocked in beta, and it's a big deal. Choppers seem too powerful, but that's because Tracer and AT4 can't be unlocked. With those two unlocked, it's possible choppers will actually be WEAK, but again we won't really know until full version.

Then again, this isn't the first Dice game I've beta tested, have been in BF:H beta since last Summer. And Dice does some smart moves and some downright petarded stuff on and off.

Hopefully, the full game will be good. I already pre-ordered based on the beta.

[kio1992]

I spent all my monies so i now declare this game is fail and im not getting it.

[Sabbathius]

Originally Posted by kio1992

I spent all my monies so i now declare this game is fail and im not getting it.

That's flawless logic! Nah, the game will do great. After the original Bad Company I was more than a little worried, and the game is not perfect, far from it, but compared to crap that's been coming out recently, it's pretty damn good.

[NizeGuy]

I still think the damage output from weapons and explosions is UNREALISTIC like hell!

They should at least head a little towards America's Army 3...

[Sabbathius]

Originally Posted by NizeGuy

I still think the damage output from weapons and explosions is UNREALISTIC like hell!

They should at least head a little towards America's Army 3...

It's always the way it's been with Battlefield series, a clip per kill is the norm.

I mean, sniper rifles, at least all of the bolt action ones, are one-shot-one-kill IF you score a headshot. If not, it becomes 2-3 hits per kill, maybe more if the target has the body armor perk. And clip holds 5 rounds. So it's one clip per one kill.

Assault rifles are the same. It takes 3-5 hits to the head to down someone, but with the ridiculous spread and moving target, it takes 15-25 most of the time. And clip holds 30. Again, one clip, one kill.

Shotguns same business. Even worse for SMGs, their damage is less than anything else, their rate of fire is higher than most, but their clip is still 30 rounds, so definitely one kill per clip.

Etc., etc.

Exceptions being grenades, missiles and other massive projectiles, those are one shot one kill under any circumstances.

I know what you mean with America's Army thing, I liked that game, especially the "no bunnyhopping or dolphindiving" as it messed up your accuracy something fierce. But that's not how Battlefield series work. It's a conscious design choice. In BF, just because someone got the drop on you doesn't mean it's an automatic win for them like it would be in AA. In AA, you come around the corner and come face to face with someone holding M249 in prone supported on you, you die. Period. End of story. Do not pass go, do not collect $200. Nothing you can do to save yourself or kill the one camping you.

In BF series, however, it's not as clear-cut, if you move enough and the guy gets flustered just a bit, or overextends and empties his clip, he's dead before he can reload. In AA, with 3-round bust on rifles as fastest firing mode, that was unlikely, and weapons were bloody accurate. In AA, if you tried to cross the street at a sprint that is being covered by M249 gunner, you wouldn't make it, same as in OFP or ARMA. It just couldn't happen. But in BF, it can, if you're quick enough.

If they went the route of AA or ARMA in BF, the matches would be much, much quicker and less forgiving. It wouldn't be uncommon for you to spawn, run for a minute and die to someone you never even saw. Not much fun. Realistic, but not fun. Plus map size, remember the map size. In AA, maps were tiny, in ARMA maps were huge, both games were unforgiving, but ARMA wasn't popular because if you died, that's it, you had to wait for the round to reset before you could play again. That's a bad design choice. People often quit rather than wait 20 mins for the last survivors to die just because the round start got messed up. And travel time. In ARMA it was not uncommon for everyone to go to their positions and set up and report ready, which took 5-10 mins, only for something to go wrong and half the team die, making winning impossible. Realistic, yes. Fun, no. Not if you spend 10-30 mins on average looking at the death screen.

So in BF it was a conscious choice. They dropped realism in favour of action and fun. The more bullets you fire in full auto, the more fun it seems to most people. So they made accuracy and damage low, so that it takes one clip, not one bullet, to kill someone. Although with good aim it still takes 1 bullet or one short burst. But for most, it takes one clip. Also in interests of fun, they allowed stuff like medic resurrection and spawning on your squad location. Neither is realistic. I once had a teammate ahead of me rush up the stairs and be gunned down. I zapped him with my medic paddles, resurrecting him, and he got gunned down again, so I zap him again, and this time people who killed him were reloading and he killed them both. Realistic? No, of course not. Fun? Well, let's just say I laughed so hard I spent 20 mins cleaning coffee out of my keyboard afterwards, when my 12-times-dead zombie teammate was gunning people down because I wouldn't let him die.

It's a tradeoff. I prefer realism myself, but there's time and place. Too much realism, such as ARMA, is great if you want realism, but sucks if you want to blow off some steam.

[Corwen]

Originally Posted by NizeGuy

I still think the damage output from weapons and explosions is UNREALISTIC like hell!

It definitely is.

I mean I had fun playing in the normal servers, but playing 'hardcore' servers is much more fun to me.

From what I've read though, the hardcore servers that are up right now aren't really hardcore servers, they are just tweaked by the admins to exhibit hardcore server settings.

But people die faster, no radar, no tagging enemies, no health bar, no ammo count, etc. - Might be worth checking out if you're tired of filling people with whole clips at point blank.

[NizeGuy]

Originally Posted by Corwen

It definitely is.

I mean I had fun playing in the normal servers, but playing 'hardcore' servers is much more fun to me.

From what I've read though, the hardcore servers that are up right now aren't really hardcore servers, they are just tweaked by the admins to exhibit hardcore server settings.

But people die faster, no radar, no tagging enemies, no health bar, no ammo count, etc. - Might be worth checking out if you're tired of filling people with whole clips at point blank.

The hardcore mode is not available in the beta as far as I know, but yes, people die easier than in BF2 and what I have heard BF:BC1, but I still think it takes too many shots to kill a target, however the sniper is much better than any other BF game I have played, regarding damage and usefulness.

And oh yea! God bless the no FUCKING Radar/UAV shit we had in BF2. God I hated it ^^ Also good to know the tagging is gone in hardcore mode.

The game still rocks despite these small "flaws". I mean WOW! This is one of the most action, fast-paced games I've ever played!

[Sabbathius]

Originally Posted by NizeGuy

The hardcore mode is not available in the beta as far as I know, but yes, people die easier than in BF2 and what I have heard BF:BC1, but I still think it takes too many shots to kill a target, however the sniper is much better than any other BF game I have played, regarding damage and usefulness.

Hardcore servers are in beta, they're just very, very rare.

And oh yea! God bless the no FUCKING Radar/UAV shit we had in BF2. God I hated it ^^ Also good to know the tagging is gone in hardcore mode.

One thing about Hardcore and no spotting is that it completely defeats the purpose of many items and abilities. For example, Recon scope, the high level one you can't unlock in beta, that automatically marks targets you aim at. This is disabled on Hardcore, as far as I know. Similarly, motion sensors that Recon kit starts with, the ones you throw like grenades and they autospot in a certain radius for a little while. If spotting is disabled, what the hell is the point of having motion sensors?

And more importantly, if motion sensors are made useless, this will cut into points given to Recon kit. Other kits must also have stuff be disabled too in Hardcore to balance it out. If ammo boxes and medkits are not disabled, it's unfair, for example, because Assault and Medic kits will rake up massive points while Recon kit would be robbed of points via disabling motion sensors.

So I'm not sure how well Hardcore servers are thought out.

[LightsabeR]

So I played about 4-5 hours today. I gotta say, overall, the game seems fun, but, and this is a big but, the hitdetection is crap. Maybe it's caues of lag, maybe cause the engine is crap, maybe the netcode is poorly done, idk.

Several times I had an enemy standing about 50 meters away from me, yet I was unable to hit them with my sniper. I fired off several shots and non of them connected. Then I took out my handgun and shot them from the same range and killed them. Other times, in similar situations, I had no problems taking them out with my sniper. Also, for some reason, I seem to have less issues hitting enemies from long range.

Personally I think hit detection needs a lot of work before I'll be able to enjoy this game fully.

Also I talked to a guy who has played the PC beta for over 20 hours. He was also frustrated with the hit detection and decided to try out the xbox beta. Now, even tho he hates playing FPS games on his console (he's a die hard mouse+keyboard fan), he said that he found it a lot easier to hit people on his xbox. He said the hit detection made sense and everything worked a whole lot smoother.


Oh well... I guess we can't ask much more from a console port. Hopefully they'll manage to improve it before (or even after) launch.

[0verwatch]

Originally Posted by LightsabeR

Hopefully they'll manage to improve it before (or even after) launch.

Bullshit, this is a console game. They don't give a shit about the PC port.

[LightsabeR]

Originally Posted by 0verwatch

Bullshit, this is a console game. They don't give a shit about the PC port.

Well, I remain hopeful, unless a few weeks after release nothing is improved. Tho it is hard to remain hopeful, since they already pretty much lied to us, by saying that they had a separate team working on the PC release since the beginning. I think it's pretty obvious, based on how much better the console version seems to be, that in reality they simply had a couple of guys porting it over.

Still... thats how it is these days with FPS games. Developers and publishers have realized that there's a lot more money to be earned from the console market and it's also easier to develop console games, so as a business decision, it simply makes more sense financially.

[NizeGuy]

Originally Posted by 0verwatch

Bullshit, this is a console game. They don't give a shit about the PC port.

NAHAHAHAH! WTF?! A console game? Yea sure? FPS + Console is the dumbest invention EVAR!!!

It's like, when some big, fucking retarded, assholes came up with the idea of Infantry only in Battlefield 2! I mean WTF!!!

You know what? BC1 was only a test! Why do you think they finally made a PC version of the game? lolz....

[Scysorn]

Originally Posted by LightsabeR

Several times I had an enemy standing about 50 meters away from me, yet I was unable to hit them with my sniper. I fired off several shots and non of them connected. Then I took out my handgun and shot them from the same range and killed them. Other times, in similar situations, I had no problems taking them out with my sniper. Also, for some reason, I seem to have less issues hitting enemies from long range.

I cant say that I've any irregular hit detection experience at all with the sniper, and i have played 7-10 hours on the PC beta. But the hit detection is far from perfect in this game, i can agree with that. Then again, only had very few moments that it has bothered me so far.

Keep in mind i always play on servers with 20-30 ms so that might help. If its anything like the issues in BF2 then its the result of bad netcode tho.

I have the PS3 demo too, and the bullet drop/cone of fire seems to be more forgiving in that version. Still Fun, but not my cup of tea. FPS games on consoles that is.

Anyway, this game is loads of fun anyway and its a definitive purchase for me. The PC beta is a 3 month(ish) old build, so there's bound to be many fixes/improvements in the release version.

There's many signs of it being a console port, like the obvious auto aim knifing for example That needs to go.

[LightsabeR]

Originally Posted by Scysorn

Keep in mind i always play on servers with 20-30 ms so that might help. If its anything like the issues in BF2 then its the result of bad netcode tho.

Yeah, I'm thinking that might be it. I've not played a lot and have only managed to get on servers where the server browser shows 60-80 pings (god knows what it really is, since you can't check in the game).

A guy on another forum who was also complaining about bad hit detection said that he managed to join a low ping (~30) server and said the problems were pretty much gone.

So... based on this, I take it that one can't play BF games on servers located further than ~500km from their house. Awesome netcode!

[0verwatch]

Originally Posted by NizeGuy

NAHAHAHAH! WTF?! A console game? Yea sure? FPS + Console is the dumbest invention EVAR!!!

It's like, when some big, fucking retarded, assholes came up with the idea of Infantry only in Battlefield 2! I mean WTF!!!

You know what? BC1 was only a test! Why do you think they finally made a PC version of the game? lolz....

I hope you are a troll or I will lose my hope on humanity.

[Sabbathius]

Originally Posted by LightsabeR

Yeah, I'm thinking that might be it. I've not played a lot and have only managed to get on servers where the server browser shows 60-80 pings (god knows what it really is, since you can't check in the game).

A guy on another forum who was also complaining about bad hit detection said that he managed to join a low ping (~30) server and said the problems were pretty much gone.

So... based on this, I take it that one can't play BF games on servers located further than ~500km from their house. Awesome netcode!

I know what you mean there. Some servers are noticeably laggy. But then, the server usually tells you where it is located. Once I joined a laggy server, which was called BC2 Moscow. That's 4.5k miles, or 7k km as a crow flies. So what could I expect? I remember joining a game of Diablo I, back in 1996, with someone from Moscow hosting it, and it was laggy as hell too. On the other hand, joining a server that is 200 miles away, it was quite playable.

So this is a little like the Australian player on one of the servers complaining about low ping on a server that is sitting in North Eastern USA. Well, mate, it's 9.9k miles. What did you expect?

As for netcode, it may not be to blame, at least not entirely. I'm in PC beta of BC2 right now, and being a beta it's a safe bet that there's tons of debug code still in the game and who knows what else. With it removed, the performance might pick up significantly. PS3 version runs pretty well, for example, and that's maybe because it's not a beta, it's a DEMO already. Debug code go bye bye.

Have I had laggy BC2 games? Absolutely. Have I had silky smooth ones too? Yupper, that's a roger. Find a better server.

[Orbious]

Been enjoying this game in between Global Agenda, but it was running really bad (was getting 15-25FPS like most people with dual core CPUs) but they just released a patch that optmized it and now I'm getting 50-100FPS on Medium settings.

Makes the game a lot more fun by a long shot, haha. I like to have 1-2 games from each of the genres I like, BC2 I can see filling the FPS side for a while.

[Scysorn]

Originally Posted by LightsabeR

So... based on this, I take it that one can't play BF games on servers located further than ~500km from their house. Awesome netcode!

That would suck, since far from all areas/cities in the world will have nearby approved hosting companies that you can purchase servers from. At least not at release.


The new patch that was released today did not only improve performance, hit detection was also improved.

Patch notes:

Originally Posted by DICE

This update is about performance and stability again. We are not doing any changes to the game's datafiles.

* Reduced input "lag"
On machines where the CPU would out-run the GPU, sometimes the GPU would queue up several frames' worth of rendering commands.
This could lead to the game having a high framerate, but input still feeling very sluggish.

Now there's a limiter on how many frames the CPU is allowed to be "ahead" of the GPU.
Control this setting via Settings.ini. Default setting: RenderAheadLimit=2

* Performance optimizations with biggest improvements on dual-core machines
* Fixed black "masks"
o The soot on buildings with holes in them had a bugged renderpath. We switched that over to a more well-tested renderpath.
* Improved hit-detection
o We've gone through the hit detection logic, and client+server will now give more consistent results.
* Fix for some "rubberbanding" issues
o C4 should stay attached to vehicles and not rubberband around
* Reduced spikes/dips in framerate
* Various fixes for alt+tab related CTD on Dx9
* More fixes for random CTD on Dx9
* Fix for crash when you're in a vehicle that gets destroyed

There was a race condition in the code;
System 1 thought "oh hey, you're leaving vehicle X"
System 2 thought "the vehicle got destroyed, let's remove it"

If system 2 ran before system 1, chaos would ensue.
This was actually fixed in the retail version since a month, but it was only when we got detailed crash reports from the community that we understood *why* the Beta was crashing.

Likely bugs in this build
I wouldn't be surprised if it (still) has trouble remembering your settings between rounds. It would be nice to have that fixed too, but it's better to get a patch out now, and look at the settings issues afterward.

-Mikael Kalms

[NizeGuy]

Originally Posted by 0verwatch

I hope you are a troll or I will lose my hope on humanity.

I've already lost mine...

Troll

[Corwen]

Only problem I'm having is I'm getting bored of playing the same map over and over again...

Yet it's still surprisingly fun for how many times I've done it.

[Sabbathius]

Originally Posted by Corwen

Only problem I'm having is I'm getting bored of playing the same map over and over again...

Yet it's still surprisingly fun for how many times I've done it.

Yeah, I'm getting the same vibe out of BC2 as I did out of WoW. On all my chars, in all the years, I've probably done Alterac Vally at least a thousand times. I know every nook and cranny. And yet, when I went back for the 5th year anniversary free week, I still did AV, and it was still fun.

In BC2, with all the kits, unlocks and perks, it feels almost like AV to me, maybe because it's snowy and one side always turtles (damn Alliance!) Even though I've been Rank 11 for a long time and unlocked everything the beta would let me unlock ages ago. And that's pretty damn impressive. One map, one mode. Full version will keep me busy for months.

[NizeGuy]

Originally Posted by Sabbathius

Yeah, I'm getting the same vibe out of BC2 as I did out of WoW. On all my chars, in all the years, I've probably done Alterac Vally at least a thousand times. I know every nook and cranny. And yet, when I went back for the 5th year anniversary free week, I still did AV, and it was still fun.

In BC2, with all the kits, unlocks and perks, it feels almost like AV to me, maybe because it's snowy and one side always turtles (damn Alliance!) Even though I've been Rank 11 for a long time and unlocked everything the beta would let me unlock ages ago. And that's pretty damn impressive. One map, one mode. Full version will keep me busy for months.

This is one of the most weirdest comparisons I have ever witnessed!

Still cool though ^^

[Corwen]

Ha, that was random comparison

Though I strangely know exactly what you mean...

[Scysorn]

Aye, the map is still fun and i've also been rank 11 for a while.. Still, would be nice with a non-snowy map right about now

[LightsabeR]

Originally Posted by Sabbathius

Yeah, I'm getting the same vibe out of BC2 as I did out of WoW. On all my chars, in all the years, I've probably done Alterac Vally at least a thousand times. I know every nook and cranny. And yet, when I went back for the 5th year anniversary free week, I still did AV, and it was still fun.

In BC2, with all the kits, unlocks and perks, it feels almost like AV to me, maybe because it's snowy and one side always turtles (damn Alliance!) Even though I've been Rank 11 for a long time and unlocked everything the beta would let me unlock ages ago. And that's pretty damn impressive. One map, one mode. Full version will keep me busy for months.

Damn it! You just ruined BC2 for me... drawing parallels with WoW! God damn you! What the hell man?!

[Reinholt]

Originally Posted by LightsabeR

Damn it! You just ruined BC2 for me... drawing parallels with WoW! God damn you! What the hell man?!

Its the cold truth.

[0verwatch]

Originally Posted by NizeGuy

I've already lost mine...

Troll

[NizeGuy]

Originally Posted by 0verwatch

Spoiler for .:

Much better ^^

[0verwatch]

Originally Posted by NizeGuy

Much better ^^

[ReaverDrop]

If some of the issues in beta are fixed by release it might be a decent game. Some things that just piss me off currently :

Infinte ammo on vehicles = Destruction of entire environment

Mcaps or whatever there called also destroyable with C4 which ruins the game mode

Whole team goes recon while you go and fight and still lose because they don't do shit

Hardcore mode isn't all that fun, most players are either assault and will use the noob tube at you (which is instant kill for them) or they will choose recon and pretty much every shot for them is a one shot kill which makes the game somewhat unplayable.

There just seems to be an endless supply of idiots in the game, probably due to the fact that its just a console port.

[LightsabeR]

Originally Posted by ReaverDrop

If some of the issues in beta are fixed by release it might be a decent game. Some things that just piss me off currently :

Infinte ammo on vehicles = Destruction of entire environment

Mcaps or whatever there called also destroyable with C4 which ruins the game mode

Whole team goes recon while you go and fight and still lose because they don't do shit

Hardcore mode isn't all that fun, most players are either assault and will use the noob tube at you (which is instant kill for them) or they will choose recon and pretty much every shot for them is a one shot kill which makes the game somewhat unplayable.

There just seems to be an endless supply of idiots in the game, probably due to the fact that its just a console port.

1. I agree. Vehicles should have limited ammo and they too would have to resupply in some way. Maybe Engineers could slowly resupply vehicles, tho I think that would make the class too good, since they already have AT weapons and the repair tool.

2. True. Load up a ATV or any other vehicle with C4 crash into the MCAP, then click -> Boom!.

3. That's a problem with the people you play with, not with the game. Just play with friends or clan mates who know what to do and are preferably in voice chat with you.

4. Just don't play Hardcore mode. I haven't even touched it. Besides, normal mode takes more skill to play anyway, despite what the name "hardcore" suggests.

You see, since in normal mode you need to do more damage to the enemy you need to be able to aim better to hit them with more bullets. Also, since the enemy has to do more damage to you as well, you are able to return fire or take cover, if you are skilful enough.


As for the idiots, I suspect they come mostly from MW2. That game is a breeding ground for players who have no idea what teamwork is and are only after a good KDR.

In MW2, you could join a random server, get 70% of your teams kills (I know I did plenty of times) and pretty much win the round on your own. In BC2 you need to have a good team of 4 players (preferably more than one team), if you want to enjoy the game and be successful.


If they fix the hit detection issues I'm having in beta, I'm gonna get this game for sure.

[Azrael STX]

Originally Posted by NizeGuy

I still think the damage output from weapons and explosions is UNREALISTIC like hell!

They should at least head a little towards America's Army 3...

Nah, if I wanted to have a guaranteed death every time someone gets the drop on me, I'd play <insert most other multiplayer FPS games here>. There should be some skill involved in 1v1, not just random bullshit luck based on who fires first while aiming in the general direction of the other person.

That is a large part of why Battlefield 2 is such an enjoyable game to me, while I absolutely cannot stand CoD games. I tried MW2 to give the series another shot and was bored as fuck within the span of 20 minutes.

Kill cams are the absolute worst thing I've ever experienced in a game though, and BC2 implementing them, especially as a default setting, has guaranteed that this is one Battlefield game I will not be picking up.

Luckily Battlefield 3 is already in development =D

[0verwatch]

Originally Posted by Azrael STX

Luckily Battlefield 3 is already in development =D

Link?

[LightsabeR]

Google?

edit...

k ill be nice

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3178088

[Azrael STX]

I know, right? Lol.

[0verwatch]

Originally Posted by LightsabeR

Google?

edit...

k ill be nice

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3178088

Thx bro