Starcraft II

[Azrael STX]

Originally Posted by Kamisama

Omfg i just thought thanks to your post of an awesome tactic i need to try asap !

Share please

Originally Posted by Kiev

I tried it offline with AI....not really sure why people are so excited by this game.

Reminds me of this for some reason.

[Drackonis]

Originally Posted by Kiev

I tried it offline with AI....not really sure why people are so excited by this game..is it because its Blizzard? is it because people were obsessed with the first SC?

if so, then why? I mean there were many epic RTS games over the years: Dune games, C&C games (many variants, particularly Red Alert 2), Supreme Commander, Company of Heroes, which moved RTS games into a new level all together. Then you have Star Craft 2, which is not revolutionary at all and feels just like any other rts from the 90's...so why? I am currious

The point is that SC/SC2 emphasise super balanced gameplay and mechanics that support hyper-competitive play.

The RTS element of the game is designed to be played competitively, and so it appeals to the hardcore competitive gamer who doesn't have a terribly large selection of games that meet all the right requirements.

It's also got to do with the map editor, if you've ever played SC or WC3 then you'll know the amazing kinds of things people have done with them, providing a huge supply of fun and easy to acquire mods. The SC2 editor will be even more powerful than the WC3 one, so we'll get some really amazing games being put together.

Personally, I'll be buying the game for the map editor and the custom games that are sure to come from it.

I'll also dip into the standard game type too, as it's got an excellent match making and ladder system.

So, why? It's because the editor will allow endless custom games to be made and because it's the next iteration in a game that is played at a professional and competitive level.

[Bokan]

It's the business with the editor and the fact that we know the game will be very well balanced and very popular. Normally these sorts of games take a leap of faith in terms of whether or not to invest time, but a blizzard game is a sure bet to still be popular years, decades down the line

[Reinholt]

Originally Posted by Gixer

i think it'd be more fun playing against a real person.

This. Computer is not going to be amazed by your micro.

[Aragoni]

The thing with Starcraft 2 that attracts me isn't the game itself, but rather the map editor that comes with it.

[Kamisama]

Originally Posted by Aragoni

The thing with Starcraft 2 that attracts me isn't the game itself, but rather the map editor that comes with it.

Yeah that what i was thinking before playing it, because i didn't get fond memories of SC and WarIII ladder (meeting only pgms). But with the new league system it's more fun when you can play even matches on ladder within a league of people of the same skill level.

So i think i'll enjoy every aspect of SCII after all (campaign, ladder and mods)

[Diaclo]

Sc2 and Wc3 are designed for eSport.
All RTS no.

[Taisenki]

I'm under the impression that games are very boring to play if you can kill the enemy very quickly with a rush tactic. each to their own.

I'd prefer to see some 100v100 ArmA battle or something involving Tons of players! That'd be awesome as a e-sport.

[LightsabeR]

Originally Posted by Taisenki

I'm under the impression that games are very boring to play if you can kill the enemy very quickly with a rush tactic. each to their own.

If you're a much better player compared to your opponent, then sure, you can end the round very quickly in SC. But on the pro level (Korea), rounds that end under 5 minutes are very rare.

Edit:

For example, you don't see something like this everyday:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jen46qkZVNI

While I was already on VioleTAK's youtube channel, might as well link this epic game, Bisu vs Jaedong:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsPkUQPaU9Y

[Kamisama]

Originally Posted by LightsabeR

If you're a much better player compared to your opponent, then sure, you can end the round very quickly in SC. But on the pro level (Korea), rounds that end under 5 minutes are very rare.

Edit:

For example, you don't see something like this everyday:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jen46qkZVNI

While I was already on VioleTAK's youtube channel, might as well link this epic game, Bisu vs Jaedong:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsPkUQPaU9Y

I love how those korean dudes have monster computer to play ... starcraft 1

[Azrael STX]

Originally Posted by Taisenki

I'm under the impression that games are very boring to play if you can kill the enemy very quickly with a rush tactic.

No, you cannot kill the enemy very quickly if they're a good player and prepare for it. That's half the point, if you prepare for a rush early game, and your opponent ends up not rushing, you've misused units that could have been scouting and resources that could have gone into tech or something else. Of course, if they do rush and you don't prepare, then you're either going to outright lose or at least be at a clear disadvantage after the attack.

At the same time, if you rush the other player and it fails to inflict much damage, you are pretty much screwed for the rest of the game. Early macro might be easier than mid-game, but it's sure as hell still vital. Even rushing with zerglings means you're not only leaving yourself worse on defense, but if they simply die then that's basically all the resources you had at that point, which could have gone into drones or pretty much anything at this stage of the match. It also means you'll be confined to your base longer. You become handicapped compared to your opponent, and if it's a worker rush which basically never works, you may as well be committing suicide.

Most decent players who plays against a Zerg player will at least take some steps to prevent a rush because of the fact Zerg are the easiest to pull it off with due to their low costs and build times, along with the speed of their units and the fact you get a 2-for-1 deal when creating them. However, some Zerg players use this to their advantage, scouting early, and when the other guy sees a Zerg unit in his base a minute or two after the game started, the possibility that a rush is coming increases dramatically so he starts blocking off his base entrance and/or building appropriate units. In the meantime, the Zerg player is teching up to some much better units than zerglings, knowing the other player is wasting time, resources, and APM to prevent something that's not going to happen.

And that's only a few of the things to take into account in just the first couple minutes of the match, but I guess you think games where this level of strategic consideration isn't possible are more interesting. I guess you think it's less boring when every game is similar in how its played, how long it lasts, what happens leading up to the outcome, and you can have a good idea of how the game will be played before the match even starts. To each their own.

Originally Posted by LightsabeR

For example, you don't see something like this everyday:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jen46qkZVNI

Wow, I saw the title of the video and was like "...no way." Although it was less of an SCV rush and more of a marine rush where he was microing the SCVs to act as a wall to keep the marines separated from the zerglings and drones. Of course it doesn't hurt that the wall could attack lol.

That's an ingenious tactic to pull out of nowhere. That's the last thing you'd expect a Terran to do, I guarantee the Zerg player didn't see that coming until it was too late lmao. That's why I love StarCraft though, there's so many things you can do and still win, you never know wtf is going to happen.

Originally Posted by Kamisama

I love how those korean dudes have monster computer to play ... starcraft 1

It's called "sponsors". Why would a company give you a crappy computer to represent them?

[Reinholt]

The rewards in rushing is great if it succeeds. But it really sets you back if you fail. Its a fair risk vs reward strategy.

[Shinzon]

The only way to play SC is Online against other people, you will get raped, and you will get raped a lot; and you will like it, you will crawl back for more.

I'm in the SC2 Beta right now, you can add me as Shinzon.aegis

[Corwen]

Originally Posted by Kiev

not really sure why people are so excited by this game..is it because its Blizzard? is it because people were obsessed with the first SC?

Basically this

There really isn't anything revolutionary about it, but that doesn't mean it can't be fun

Though, I think people who have nostalgia tied to the first SC are going to enjoy it more, or at least want to play it more.

I'm playing it right now actually, but I still think company of heroes is better :P

[Reinholt]

Needs moar banelings. They are so cute. ^^

[Kamisama]

It's called "sponsors". Why would a company give you a crappy computer to represent them?

I figured that out, but it's still funny, they could run SCI on a tiny shuttle hidden under the desk but no they have this huge central unit ^^

I'm in the SC2 Beta right now, you can add me as Shinzon.aegis

i'm playing with my brother's account (i think it's restricted to one per home, that's probably why i didn't get a key myself)

Needs moar banelings. They are so cute. ^^

oddly, i never seen one dude using them in 1v1 nor in 2v2

[Valkyre]

I played it cracked against AI and I personally believe it's cool.

[Taisenki]

Originally Posted by Corwen

Basically this

There really isn't anything revolutionary about it, but that doesn't mean it can't be fun

Though, I think people who have nostalgia tied to the first SC are going to enjoy it more, or at least want to play it more.

I'm playing it right now actually, but I still think company of heroes is better :P

I agree that I think company of heroes is better, But its unfair because company of heroes is very recent =p

Company of heroes falls to the same RTS thingy of anal tactics though. Online battles often don't make logical sense. Such as spamming ONE kind of unit.

I also wish company of heroes infantry worked more like infantry. 1 soldier can run infront of you group of 6 soldiers and their aim still seems rather...shit. to put it bluntly. The game clearly has put in some balancing healthbar so 'one unit trumps another' in the end.

-

That rush video doesn't look epic at all. But I really love the gameing community for putting together such an event ! Its truely much more interesting than the olympics.

I CAN ROW A BOAT!
I CAN WALK FAST!

not as interesting as blowing up 50,000 people in virtual space.

-

England sucks for gameing. Really badly =p

[PhamTrinli]

I have sc2 beta access woot :)

[Taisenki]

Just watched the second video, Confirmed what I said =p

Lets stick all our units in one place! Defense is just like....a no. except for base defense. Your defence group is your attack group.

or am I wrong? Can someone show me a video =p ?

[Azrael STX]

Originally Posted by Taisenki

Just watched the second video, Confirmed what I said =p

Lets stick all our units in one place! Defense is just like....a no. except for base defense. Your defence group is your attack group.

or am I wrong? Can someone show me a video =p ?

You can do it however you want, a lot of people will mass all their units for the final attack when they're sure they can wipe out the enemy. Why would you leave people scattered around for defense if you're pushing a final offensive?

There are intricacies in that second video that are impossible to notice unless you really understand what's going on. The level of the two people there is just ridiculously good, the speed they expanded and the skill at which they were microing was outrageous. A good example was how when the hydras were fighting the reaver, they were moving spaced out just far enough from each other so that one scarab could only kill one hydra (they inflict tremendous splash damage and allowing the hydras to path themselves when selected as a group results in them moving close together).

I'm not sure what you mean by using units as defense outside of base defense though. You can clearly set up units to protect areas outside your base, as demonstrated in the video when the Zerg player was preventing the Protoss player from leaving his own base to defend his expansion. All units can be used as offense or defense depending on what you feel like using them for, I've won a game with just Photon Cannons before which are generally a strictly defensive structure.

You're free to play however it is you feel like playing.

[Taisenki]

lol...just lol.

In the same way as I'm free to play Tetris by just pressing the down button =p

[Azrael STX]

Or the same way you're free to discuss something by making one-line attempts at clever analogies.

Am I doing it right? Oh wait, better edit this in quick.

Lol...just lol.

Now my reply isn't just a dense failure of comprehension.

[Reinholt]

Theres no point splitting up your forces if your enemy knows how to scout. He´ll just take out all the small pockets of units you have all over the place, with his main force.
Unless you´re more than a casual player. I doubt anyone could appreciate the awesome micro people can do in that game. I learned to appreciate vultures after BoxeR showed how to micro them to take out an big force of zerglings/zealots and dragoons.

[Taisenki]

I like to see some more brains involved. Either that or go test your reaction time on soul calibur 4 and try and block/parry all those incoming attacks =) That would look awesome. But "Micro'ing" isn't such a big deal. Its as epic as those kids doing their insane thing on the dance machine or that other 2 player game that some guy plays both on and completes the entire game or anything else that people spend alot of time on practicing properly.

Azreal. I wasn't saying "YOU SHOULD DO IT LIKE THIS KK"

I was saying, It looks horrible LIKE that. Thats why I lol'ed. English language is obviously extremely open for interpritation as always.

Then I posted the reply

Originally Posted by Taisenki

lol...just lol.

In the same way as I'm free to play Tetris by just pressing the down button =p

Because you state I can play it how I want. If I play it like that. I can garuntee I won't be playing tetris for very long and I won't get good at it.


What sounds more fun? The very realistic 1 group of people doing everything or lots of groups doing different jobs. For too long has it been "I'll send everything in for my attack. If I lose it doesn't matter because the enemy has to recover. Besides...I can regenerate my units in no time at all"

BUT thats apparently what makes the game so incredibly amazing...

[Zealot]

The way I see it, if you let your enemy form such a massive army, you are too bad to be complaining anyways.

[PhamTrinli]

In games with gosu players, micro is key. If one person micros and the second person doesn't - most likely the second player will lose.

[Reinholt]

Originally Posted by Zealot

The way I see it, if you let your enemy form such a massive army, you are too bad to be complaining anyways.

Aaand, you were turtling. Wich is bad, in pretty much all RTS games.

[Rokolith]

Originally Posted by Taisenki

Either that or go test your reaction time on soul calibur 4 and try and block/parry all those incoming attacks =)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS7hkwbKmBM

[Reinholt]

Micro is not a big deal when you play against an computer. Any real time RTs requires good micro if you wish to beat more than noobs. Even CoH. You need good micro to beat the rifleman blobs and to move your tanks so they have an shot at the enemy rear etc. ^^ Rushing only works if your opponent does not know how to counter it. I think if you cant counter something like that, you´d lose the match anyway.

[Kiev]

I just get wiped out by AI all the time, only managed to beat it once in 7 days with marine rush. It just seems to be able to produce many epic/edvanced units when all I can achieve is a handful of 1st level troops. The longoest I can stay alive is 3 waves. I tried different AI's so I am pretty sure I don't have the "cheating one". Right now I have 6.1 standard edition AI.

[Reinholt]

Originally Posted by Kiev

I just get wiped out by AI all the time, only managed to beat it once in 7 days with marine rush. It just seems to be able to produce many epic/edvanced units when all I can achieve is a handful of 1st level troops. The longoest I can stay alive is 3 waves. I tried different AI's so I am pretty sure I don't have the "cheating one". Right now I have 6.1 standard edition AI.

Sounds like your APM might be a tad bit slow?

[Lille]

Originally Posted by Reinholt

Sounds like your APM might be a tad bit slow?

The AI is pretty good actually. Not sure, but I thought there was an easy version of the 6.0 AI somewhere. Playing the standard 6.0 myself, so far, I can pretty much only win if I play as protoss agains zerg or terran.

[Taisenki]

Originally Posted by Rokolith

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS7hkwbKmBM

thanks for the soul calibur 4 link =( Not quite the same =p

I really want to see some people being awesome at that game! Since it multiple blocks, parries and dodges.

[Azrael STX]

Originally Posted by Taisenki

thanks for the soul calibur 4 link =( Not quite the same =p

I really want to see some people being awesome at that game!

No shit, maybe you could post in a thread about it or learn how to use the PM system.

[Taisenki]

so, ignoring mr sensative, whens starcraft 2 actual release date or they going to keep pushing it back? Theres some other RTS's coming out this month. Settlers 7 and C&C 4.

[Azrael STX]

Originally Posted by Taisenki

so, ignoring mr sensative

1) It's spelled sensitive.

2) Leaving me bad rep isn't really "ignoring" me is it?

3) You sound so butt hurt in the rep you left me, seems you're the overly sensitive one haha.

Originally Posted by Taisenki

whens starcraft 2 actual release date

There is no definite date for release yet.

[drno172000]

I'm such a noob, I had to google microing. Does anyone play games for fun anymore or is it all so serious. I have fun losing just as much as I do winning. Guess I'm just an old man.

[Katana622]

Originally Posted by Kiev

I tried it offline with AI....not really sure why people are so excited by this game..is it because its Blizzard? is it because people were obsessed with the first SC?

if so, then why? I mean there were many epic RTS games over the years: Dune games, C&C games (many variants, particularly Red Alert 2), Supreme Commander, Company of Heroes, which moved RTS games into a new level all together. Then you have Star Craft 2, which is not revolutionary at all and feels just like any other rts from the 90's...so why? I am currious

Company of heroes is a different feel for rts. Its more capturing mechanic? Also red alert 2 was total crap, cnc4 is the biggest junk ive ever seen. Almost (not all, some were still good) all of those games are different, but just because its different doesn't make it better.

Sc2 is almost what you said. It is the rts people love, simple as that. I also think a lot who fell in love with the original sc just want more starcraft.

[PhamTrinli]

Originally Posted by Taisenki

so, ignoring mr sensative, whens starcraft 2 actual release date or they going to keep pushing it back? Theres some other RTS's coming out this month. Settlers 7 and C&C 4.

word to the wise: i was in the c&c4 beta.. don't expect much from that game :\