Monetary system

[catmorbid]

Originally Posted by Apollo

Do you people even read the threads you post in? This is exactly what I posted above...

Well... Sometimes I get this rush of thought, which becomes so overwhelming, I have to do something about it immediately, before the thought is gone and a new one comes up, so I don't have time to read through all posts But generally speaking, I try to read all posts before posting. Sometimes I just fail.

[catmorbid]

Originally Posted by Reverend Mundane

This sounds like just more tedium, without really adding anything to the gameplay. At least I can't see it.

By making it too tedious to collect all those little coins and then change them to bigger ones, it becomes pointless and not worth the trouble to even collect the smallest coins. This in itself reduces money people have overall, and may even lead to (some) gankers not seeing ganking as worth the trouble, when comparing consequences (bad rep) versus the gains (crap loot).

But really, this isn't something I'd lose my sleep over, it's just a quirk i'd be happy to see

[DreamSpawn]

Originally Posted by catmorbid

Do you realize that the currencies in games are actually fake, that there's really only one number running in the background and the game just changes the output so instead of "10 000 money" you see "1 gold", presuming you'd have copper, silver and gold with 1:100 relations between the next coin? Not that it actually matters, but the only difference between currently used multiple-unit currency and a single-unit currency is the the output is different. E.g. in AoC you have Tin, Copper, Silver and Gold. Each has 1:100 relations, this means that gold is actually worth 1 million. So if something costs 50 gold, it actually costs 50 million. Same thing, different output.

when I'm trading with someone it's a hell of allot easier to spot the difference between 1500g and 150g than it is to see the difference between 15000000g and 1500000g. So to me the different coins serve one vital purpose - ease of use.

it's all about aesthetics, but aesthetics are also important.

[IamBlood]

I think there should be gold and silver in game for the curency but nothing smaller like copper tin and so on.

[catmorbid]

Originally Posted by DreamSpawn

when I'm trading with someone it's a hell of allot easier to spot the difference between 1500g and 150g than it is to see the difference between 15000000g and 1500000g. So to me the different coins serve one vital purpose - ease of use.

it's all about aesthetics, but aesthetics are also important.

15000000g and 1500000g also become easily distinguished when you put spaces between the zeroes, like: 15 000 000g and 1 500 000g.

Whoo! A crazy mess just become 15 million and 1,5 million.

Yeah, it's all about aesthetics, and there are lots of ways of doing the aesthetics. But really, doing something just for sake of aesthetics unless it's paramount is pretty silly in my books, because while you're at it, you could do it for the sake of... some other meaning

Like, for example, if coins had weight, it would put a whole new meaning to coins of different value. It'd be interesting to see coin weight working. I've tried some TES mods, I think which added coin weight, but they sucked because they only had one coin type, hence when you eventually had a crazy amount of money, it became a nuisance. Hence, I understand why coins don't have weigh in games, but with different coin types, it could actually add meaning.

[Lachrymose]

Originally Posted by catmorbid

Like, for example, if coins had weight, it would put a whole new meaning to coins of different value. It'd be interesting to see coin weight working. I've tried some TES mods, I think which added coin weight, but they sucked because they only had one coin type, hence when you eventually had a crazy amount of money, it became a nuisance. Hence, I understand why coins don't have weigh in games, but with different coin types, it could actually add meaning.

coins should have weight. you shouldn't be carrying around 1225005502302333 gold with you everywhere you go (you shouldn't want to anyways, since if you got owned you'd lose it all).

UO used only gold for monetary purposes. if you wanted to transfer bigger sums of money, you'd have to create a check for the gold. i thought this worked just fine, but if there are different types of money, they may as well just all weigh the same.

[ccoa]

Originally Posted by Lachrymose

they may as well just all weigh the same.

Not necessarily. Certain metals weight more or less than others, even if it's not noticable with one coin it would certainly add up.

[Lachrymose]

Originally Posted by ccoa

Not necessarily. Certain metals weight more or less than others, even if it's not noticable with one coin it would certainly add up.

yes, but what would be the point of making them weigh differently? just to make it more realistic? besides, perhaps not all coins are the same size. so, maybe the heavier coins are smaller, and the lighter coins are bigger.

also, making the coins have different weights would sort of make having different coins pointless altogether. let me explain:
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EXAMPLE 1 (more valuable coinage is heavier):

1 gold = $10, 10 lbs
1 silver = $5, 5 lbs
1 copper = $1, 1 lbs

now, say i need $50... i could carry 5g (50 lbs) OR 10s (50 lbs) OR 50c (50 lbs)

Conclusion: the same amount of money will have the same weight, no matter which denomination i'm carrying. granted, my example made it so that they were totally even, but if value and weight are proportional, it will still end up diminishing the difference between carrying one denomination over another, in turn diminishing the effect even having the distinction makes altogether.
__________________________________________________


__________________________________________________
EXAMPLE 2 (more valuable coinage is lighter): 1 gold = $10, 1 lbs
1 silver = $5, 5 lbs
1 copper = $1, 10 lbs

again, i need $50... now i can carry 5g (5 lbs) OR 10s (50 lbs) OR 50c (500 lbs!!)

Conclusion: carrying the most valuable gold is obviously the best idea in any situation, since it will always weight less than the lighter gold. this basically removes any reason to have any denomination but the most valuable, thus only one denomination is needed.
__________________________________________________


also, it'd just be easier to keep track of how much money you can carry and so on if all denominations were the same. so i vote either one denomination, or equal weight for all.

[catmorbid]

Wow... pretty huge coins you have there! Reminds me of Hitchhiker's Guide to Galaxy, where at one part there was mentioned a huge (about the size of a planet) coin. I think it was called a Pu.

Anyway, if coins should have different weight, then they should be real weights. Tin, copper, bronze, silver, gold and platinum are perhaps the most used coin materials in this kind of setting and they're all real materials and have real weighs, so you coul use them. For instance, say your copper coin would weigh 50grams, and then a gold coin of same size would weigh 107 grams, i.e. about twice as much, platinum a tad more. It would be a nice touch of realism, but coins of equal weight would do just fine, as it would be justifiable due to coins being of different size.

[Lachrymose]

Originally Posted by catmorbid

Wow... pretty huge coins you have there! Reminds me of Hitchhiker's Guide to Galaxy, where at one part there was mentioned a huge (about the size of a planet) coin. I think it was called a Pu.

Anyway, if coins should have different weight, then they should be real weights. Tin, copper, bronze, silver, gold and platinum are perhaps the most used coin materials in this kind of setting and they're all real materials and have real weighs, so you coul use them. For instance, say your copper coin would weigh 50grams, and then a gold coin of same size would weigh 107 grams, i.e. about twice as much, platinum a tad more. It would be a nice touch of realism, but coins of equal weight would do just fine, as it would be justifiable due to coins being of different size.

well, i was just using those values because it was easier for my explanation. i blame the US for not using the metric system.

anyways, my point was that i just don't think there would be much of a point to having them weigh differently, other than to make it more realistic, although they could weigh the same and still be just as realistic by saying they're different sizes. if you knew how much weight you could carry, and you knew how much weight you were currently carrying, it would just be easier if the coins were all the same since you could know how many coins you could hold (regardless of the denomination).

personally, i'd like to possibly see different currencies depending on region, but not different denominations of one form of currency. it's just a mess to have to fuddle with things like pennies, nickles, dimes, quarters, and dollars, since you almost don't really need anything less than a dollar, at least not in a video game, so you may as well just have gold and not worry about fussing with copper or silver since they would just be a waste of pocket space.

the multiple denominations worked in a game like WoW because you didn't have to fuss over the different coins, it just organized them automatically and even magically gave you change for your coins whenever you needed it, and they didn't have any weight, so you could just carry all of your money everywhere you went.

[ccoa]

Originally Posted by Lachrymose

personally, i'd like to possibly see different currencies depending on region, but not different denominations of one form of currency. it's just a mess to have to fuddle with things like pennies, nickles, dimes, quarters, and dollars, since you almost don't really need anything less than a dollar, at least not in a video game, so you may as well just have gold and not worry about fussing with copper or silver since they would just be a waste of pocket space.

Well, I think there should be realistic denominations. In the way that they don't carry over so you could be carrying 200 silver and not 1 gold coin which would weigh you down more and you would have to exchange the 200 silver into 2 gold at a bank or store that would give you change. I think this would stop people from ganking new players for their 5 copper and start trying to take on bigger challenges like people that carry gold.

As far as regional currency, I just don't think it would work out. I said somewhere else that it would just be terribly annoying to find a "secret" vendor in the middle of nowhere only to find out that he/she doesn't except the currency that you are carrying. And if you could carry all the types of currencies you have on you then that would just get terribly unorganized.

[catmorbid]

Originally Posted by ccoa

Well, I think there should be realistic denominations. In the way that they don't carry over so you could be carrying 200 silver and not 1 gold coin which would weigh you down more and you would have to exchange the 200 silver into 2 gold at a bank or store that would give you change. I think this would stop people from ganking new players for their 5 copper and start trying to take on bigger challenges like people that carry gold.

Exactly. This is probably one of the things that would be reduced to pretty much non existence (at least among experienced characters) with coin weight and manual coin exchange (compared to the wow-style auto-exchange, mentioned earlier).

[Lachrymose]

yes, but the problem with that is it may be difficult to tell the difference between a newb and an experienced player. remember, there will be no huge number above your head telling everyone what level you are. they may be able to look at your gear and have some idea, but if that's the case, if i ever have to carry something from one city to the next, i'll just wear noob clothes so people will think i'm not worth killing.

the truth is, either way, you'll have no idea how much money someone is carrying. i personally would just gank anyone anyways just in case they were carrying something valuable.

i just see a problem with the denominations being practically worthless. say 1g = 100s = 10,000c (that's how it is in wow), copper becomes essentially worthless, since you'd never want to carry it around since it would most likely just fill up your bag and weigh you down, and most items probably won't cost less than 1s (based on WoW's economy). again, in WoW it worked fine since it was weightless and automatically converted into silver.

now, if they inflated the price so that copper was more valuable, say 1c can buy you in-game what you could buy irl for $1. well, now all of a sudden gold is ridiculously valuable. so what's the point in having gold coins if you're only going to carry around a few of them at a time? you may as well just have bank notes or checks that you can trade with players to purchase goods.

i see what you mean on the regional currency. i guess it's probably best to just have one type of currency with one denomination imo, the way UO did it.