Alpha Combat System in short

[Chii]

Originally Posted by Archimagus

Heh? It is not like they were ever going to have third-person view in the first place outside of mounted combat. And the only reason they were going to have tpv on mounts was because it was proving to be too difficult to control in FPV. But it seems that they may have overcome that.

There never was going to be TPV anywhere else.

Ah thanks! Toobad - I suppose I didn't read that part properly
Was thinking it would be possible to view your character like you were able to do in World of Warcraft - but I'm sure the game won't be less good because of this!

Sincerely

[Typhon]

Originally Posted by Grizzler

Of course I can't really say it's shallow because I haven't played it yet. I do think it will be very intense and will require a great deal of aim and reactions.

What I ment by effects was for instance bleeding(like a DoT), slowing(like a snare), stunning (shieldbash), ... Anything besides hits that just inflict x amount of damage on impact.

If these effects could be achieved by where, when or how you are able to strike your opponent, I'll rest my case .

I was just afraid it would just be purely about doing direct damage and preventing yourself from taking it without any other elements you'd have to bare in mind (of course hitting and blocking on itself would require a considerable effort already). Like preventing certain strikes that you know will grant him tactical advantages besides attacks that will directly influence your health bar stance.

This has been mentioned numerous times throughout the thread that hitting in the different hit boxes will have different effects such as hitting on the hands or arms will disarm or hitting on the legs or feet will slow, or snare effect....

Originally Posted by Chii

Ah thanks! Toobad - I suppose I didn't read that part properly
Was thinking it would be possible to view your character like you were able to do in World of Warcraft - but I'm sure the game won't be less good because of this!

Sincerely

Why does everything have to like a feature in WoW? If people want to play WoW then why not play it? I'm sure there will some sort of paperdoll window to see what your character looks like, but other than that its FPV....

[Grizzler]

Thanks Typhon, seems like I missed that part .

[Misto]

IT sounds great and so far thumbs up for the level of information and questions asked and answered. The Devs are doing great job in keeping us posted and answering questions. Awesome!

[Lachrymose]

Originally Posted by Grizzler

Thanks Typhon, seems like I missed that part .

well, mats said that they may add those things later, but for right now they aren't in. that might be something they add before release or maybe a future patch, i guess we don't really know yet.. but they are possibilities and i would hope to have different effects depending on where you strike someone. it shouldn't be difficult to add, since they are already accounting for different damage based on where you strike.

Originally Posted by Mats Persson

Additional effects for striking different parts may be added later (such as greater chance for knockback when hit on legs or feet, critical hits on head, chance of being disarmed when hit on hands etc.), but so far only damage is in.

[Grizzler]

I also hope they will be part of the game, it's important for the tactical side of a fight I think.

[CelestialHell]

The system looks amazing I hope that magic will still be powerful and not truly gimped, unless they will still be able to hold shields and have a decent amount of life I see a very large drawback to being a magic type character. I have always love nuking from long range but I will change my play style for this game, yes I will adapt.

[Liama]

First of all, great job! This is a guaranteed megahit
Second, there seem to be some sort of hate towards TPV, I love to be able to ride my mount over a field, or sneak in the gutters of town, while enjoying the beauty of TPV. If it doesnt cost anything to add, then add it for those who want it. it not a hard thing to ignore if you dont want it.

All the mele combat seem to be weel thought through and full of skill. But I still dont get where the skill comes into casting spells. And whatever you do, dont make it a cast bar thing for spells, that is just booring. This is my suggestion for how to cast spells with skill.

For every spell, there is a certain pattern, shown on your screen, which you have to follow with your mouse. Ofc you can't move while "channeling" a spell, you're too concentrated. Depending on how well you follow the pattern, the more dmg you do, and the more chance you have of hitting with the spell. But you can also ofc just make the mouse-move fast without any specail accuracy, making the cast a fast but weak one. With skillups you can broaden the like you have follow, making it easier to make a good cast.

But this might not work since it might be too easy to hack, making every cast a perfect hit with minimum time. What the heck do I know.

Anyway, just thought I should make a sugestion since it looks like you haven't figured the system out fully yet.

[LightsabeR]

Originally Posted by Liama

First of all, great job! This is a guaranteed megahit
Second, there seem to be some sort of hate towards TPV, I love to be able to ride my mount over a field, or sneak in the gutters of town, while enjoying the beauty of TPV. If it doesnt cost anything to add, then add it for those who want it. it not a hard thing to ignore if you dont want it.

Your first post, so welcome!

But I thought I'd touch on this subject once more, since it seems you haven't had the time to go through the numerous TPV vs FPV topics on these forums.

You see, the thing with TPV is that if it is in the game then player who wish to do well in PvP will be forced to use it all the time, since in combat TPV offers many advantages over FPV. So putting in TPV basically means "removing" FPV for many players.

[Blackwatch]

Magic is a mainstay for many players, I would hope you Build up the magic
system as that is a a huge player draw.

A weak magic system will only turn off many players..

So plz rethink the minimalist magic ability's.
Keep it Balanced but full enuf to draw in the magic users..

So far interesting Weapons and tactics for the fighters..

[cybin]

What sense is it to have 20 'fire-damage' spells when you just get more damage by improving your skill? Probably the graphic effect will change by the time your skill is increasing.

I don't know any MMORPG where you got more than, let's say, 30 spells. Well, 'fire1', 'fire2', 'firexyz' and so on. But it's just one basic spell. When you look at different classes within each MMORPG, you will see that every caster class got one fire, water, air, earth, shadow, holy, whatsoever-spell. So in essence there are not that many different spells if you look closer.

I see no problem when you got just a few spells as long as I really have to use them wise and with tactic than just pushing the trigger as fast as possible.

[Mime]

This is my first real post here but I just wanted to say that I am utterly impressed by the quality of the informations you are sharing.
And your choices seems to be really well thought, this could really be the perfect game !

I am completely with you with the limited "battle magic" spells, the strategy with combat magic in old UO was simply the best I played and it was something like ... 6-7 spells actively used in combat ?

About the TPV vs FPV, I have to read all the threads about it, but forcing FPV seems like a very good move for gameplay.
But I agree that TPV is important, especially in such a beautiful game, for screenshots and for "bonding" with your character. Maybe you should look at possibilities to switch to TPV when you character is not moving or not attacking ... as soon as you move, attack or cast a spell it goes back to FPV. This would allow us to view our character while resting or while doing nothing in town, and to take screenshots (I love to keep several screenshots of all my MMORPG characters, from their start to their "end-game", this brin good memories when you are playing since several years and look at your "photo album").
A paperdool is cool, but it is also nice to be able to see our character in his environnment (as well as looking at the emotes if there are any).

[t5chris]

Combat system sounds awesome. The multi-hitboxes and check vs. armor strength on each body part is amazing. Vector speed is icing on the cake. Are you sure this game is only in alpha? I know another company that hasn't even been able to accomplish that in 8 years.

[Ryskim]

I would like to know as well as some others, whether magic use will draw from your stamina pool or a mana pool?

I'm really hoping for a combined pool. Where maybe the specialization of your skill set will slightly lower the stamina cost of actions in the area within which you specialize. EG: casters with many magic related skill points incur 5%-15% less of a hit to stamina when casting a spell.

[Rimsky]

Originally Posted by Chii

Ah thanks! Toobad - I suppose I didn't read that part properly
Was thinking it would be possible to view your character like you were able to do in World of Warcraft - but I'm sure the game won't be less good because of this!

Sincerely

Buy a mirror

Just curious about a specific scenario...lets say you're Neutral and somebody is griefing you by repeatedly knocking you down to 0 hp and waiting for you to get up again. Could you theoretically ask a friend to come finish you off? Since murder counts are given voluntarily, you could choose not to give your friend one and give one to the guy who was harrassing you (assuming the timer hadn't expired).

[stalker_spb88]

When will we see some new information about the game? (new screenshots or new videos for example)

[Archimagus]

Originally Posted by Rimsky

Just curious about a specific scenario...lets say you're Neutral and somebody is griefing you by repeatedly knocking you down to 0 hp and waiting for you to get up again. Could you theoretically ask a friend to come finish you off? Since murder counts are given voluntarily, you could choose not to give your friend one and give one to the guy who was harrassing you (assuming the timer hadn't expired).

yes, you absolutely could do that. Of course your friend would have to trust you to not give him a MC.

[Romolo85]

Originally Posted by Mats Persson

Alpha Combat System in short

We have worked hard with the first-person view on mount, which is what we are using now in the Alpha. This also means there’s a good chance there won’t be a third-person view in MO at all.

No third-persion view... i want to see my char!!!

[LightsabeR]

Originally Posted by Romolo85

No third-persion view... i want to see my char!!!

*sigh*

You will be able to see your character. Want to find out how? Go read the threads discussing FPV vs TPV.

[Ryskim]

Easy ways to see your character...

Look at your legs. Look at your arms and hands. Look in a mirror like Rimsky suggested. Or just ask anyone if you look dumb.

I really don't understand the obsession with 'seeing' your character all of the time. It's like a toddler and their bottle... trust me once you get used to an immersive FPV you will wonder how you ever played those horrid TPV games.

[cyris]

Sounds interesting.

I don't like that mounted combat is first person only though... kinda takes away some of the point.

[Torgrim]

Originally Posted by cyris

Sounds interesting.

I don't like that mounted combat is first person only though... kinda takes away some of the point.

huh????

[Archimagus]

Originally Posted by cyris

Sounds interesting.

I don't like that mounted combat is first person only though... kinda takes away some of the point.

Everything is First Person Only. The only reason that they mentioned mounted combat is that it used to be third person because they didn't think they were going to be able to make it work in first person. But apparently they have it figured out. Yay FPV.

[Am3oo]

this looks very good

[Oak]

Hi, first post here, a friend turned me on to this game today...
Sounds great, looks like all may not be lost - if Darkfall crashes and burns then at least something else is close on the horizon. Your combat system sounds more interesting as well, so even if DF doesn't FAIL I may well have to give it a try

I wish you the best of luck sirs. Long live the sandboxx MMO!

[MiahhaiM]

This all sounds very appealing. I am especially excited about mounted combat and the fatality concepts. There should be some way to take off their head or something if you get them to this state of unconscienceness.

Are all of the sword skills going to have this charge system, or is there going to be any attacks that are fast? I love fast paced PvP. If you used an Elder Scrolls style of fighting I feel it may get a bit boring to fast, as it is a very slow pace to fight at.

[toxedge]

I don't understand the people wishing to include tpv. Sure, it's nice to look your character when you've spent time getting her/him cool outfit and taking screenshots for memories but..How do you play from tpv???? Eg. how do you aim your swings? (Tho no point thinking about it as there won't be tpv).
It's a big shame handedness can't be changed. It really makes a big difference fighting someone left-handed when used to right-handed opponents.
I hope not all of the battle magic will be all big and flashy fireballs and lightning bolts and meteor showers. I hope there will also be some 'mental-like' spells like telekinesis and mind blast. Something of which animation would be more subtle, like just some ripples or nothing visible at all.
The thing that worries me like others as well is the number of hitboxes. Of course if it works properly it's very nice but I don't see a reason why the hand&arm and leg&foot hitboxes couldn't be combined. 6 hitboxes would be enough imo. In a game like this, it is important not to have lag. And please, do add those special effects on attacks hitting a specific area.
And what I'd like to add to the combat is cancel. When you charge your melee swing (hold down lmb) you should still be able to cancel your swing (eg. pressing 'end' before releasing lmb) which would cause you to lower your weapon instead of swinging it. So you could raise your sword ready to attack without the need of doing it actually. For situations when simply unsheating your weapon isn't intimidating enough. Of course it won't be big thing to just swing it instead of canceling but when you think about ranged it will make more sense. You could threaten someone with bow by pulling the string back and aiming their head but if you decide its not worth it you wouldn't need to waste the arrow. Or you start aiming at an enemy who then disappears behind a corner. And if you're threatening someone and then decide not to attack after all, without cancel you just swing/shoot a miss. The other guy can't know if you missed accidentaly or not.

[Blackcoat]

Originally Posted by Mats Persson

Alpha Combat System in short

Targeting
You never have to target someone to attack them. Targeting is used for keeping track of enemies and/or friends, letting you see their names and status (although very limited). It is also used for certain skills and spells.

- Hold target button and hover the target-crosshair over character(s) to see their names.
- Release or tap target button to add target to target list (and make that target the “active target�).
- Target list shows each targets healthbar but without numbers.
- Target list shows each targets flag/color.
- Target list may contain several targets.

Attacking

An attack consists of two "phases": charge and release.

By holding the left mouse button (LMB) you charge your attack (for a minimum of 1/2 sec but for as long as you want). As long as you charge you are open for attacks, blocking as well as auto-blocking is disabled, although you may move around freely. When you release LMB, the attack comes instantly, followed by a "recovery" that leaves you vulnerable as you cannot strike or block/parry during that time either. Charging currently does not affect amount of damage (it probably will affect it slightly later on) but enables you to fully control the attack, as you’ll strike instantly upon release.

The two phases are also used when simply clicking the LMB, although they are handled as one seamless move: The attack will be charged and then immediately released when the charge is completed (minimum 1/2 sec).

Running and attacking will result in a “power strike� that is different depending on the weapon you wield, but it drains a lot of stamina.

The first thing you’ll learn in MO’s combat is that timing is crucial, and simply spamming the LMB won’t help you in any way. The slight time it takes to charge an attack (whether you hold or click the LMB) makes the combat feel a bit non-instantaneous at first (compared to average shooters where bullets are fired directly when clicking), but opens up for much more tactical and “realistic� combat, as well as manual blocking.

Okay,

This worries me a bit. The attacking looks like you will just hold the left mouse button down and your attack is performed. Does this mean that all attacks will be the same? Just a simple swing of a weapon? Or will you get different type of attacks and what not?

[Joszek]

Originally Posted by Blackcoat

Okay,

This worries me a bit. The attacking looks like you will just hold the left mouse button down and your attack is performed. Does this mean that all attacks will be the same? Just a simple swing of a weapon? Or will you get different type of attacks and what not?

Do you know what directional attacks are meant for ?

[cybin]

I think you will have different attacks. There are different stances for different weapons so you won't just swing your weapon in only one favour. Also the different charges will certainly have an effect on how you swing your weapon.

My guess for directional attacks is, that you will cause certain injuries by hitting certain parts. Let's say, by hitting a leg continously you will have a better chance to flee, because your hits will slow your opponent. Same for hands or arms. When I always hit your arm or hand, I don't think that you will hold your weapon for long.

Well, that's just my guess's about directional attack. Hm... maybe I'm totally wrong due to my bad english. ;-) Hehe...

[adiaz800]

shoot i was hoping that magic would be a target mechanic i was hoping it would jst be aim and shoot

[Sprutske1337]

I like the directional hit boxes. It will add a lot more detail to combat.

[Asbo]

I love the bit about death at the end where you can barter for your life. I can imagine if that makes it in that it will cause a bit of fun at the very least with the person lying on the floor agreeing to give you x, y, z to leave them to live. once getting this agreed item or whatever then off with their heads anyway. Loading please wait...!!!

[Hardan]

Nice!

I just really hope the magic system is the second one.

[Krokar]

Mats::>

I have several notable questions that, if they have been answered in any other dev post, forgive me but I’m just curious as to the current state and the future end conceptual design for the combat system/s::

1.) Targeting:
Firstly, will there be an implementation of the system where the player can hit a button to target a closest player? What about auto targeting a player who is actually hitting you currently? I’m assuming that there will be a cycle button, say Page-up/Down, for targets in the target queue…? I’m more concerned with target priority and the speed of acquiring the desired target.

2.) Attacking, Blocking, and Stamina:

-Say I am beginning an attack with my opponent. I am currently holding a one-handed sword and a shield in the other hand facing my opponent. I am coordinating a strike while anticipating an immediate attack from my opponent. If I want to successfully not only defend the attack, but make a strong counter, I am assuming that I have to hold down my LMB and RMB with extreme precision on the timing of the LMB for the counter attack. This means that prior to my opponents attack, I am going to have to time my RMB to absorb the incoming hit with my shield, while instantly hitting and holding the LMB while the target begins his attack to ready my counter, then release both buttons almost simultaneously to counter if it doesn’t auto counter. This leaves me vulnerable and probably very much empty on stamina because the block from the blow, the charging of the LMB and RMB, and the counter attack all deflate my stamina reserve, which leads to the real question…
àDoes the entire combat system orient itself towards the quick-striking, light armored player who can utilize his single sword or duel-wielding skills? If stamina is this important and recharges on two separate levels, can you explain how you can balance two very different warriors using two very different combat techniques with obviously very different amounts of stamina pools that are based on many aspects, including even character size from the creation screen!? [Granted, I totally understand that the path you take In an MMO game like this, that is PvP oriented, has a good aspect of battle skill diversity on the player’s part based on his character choice – and this does in a way make this game more interesting but can you balance it…]
What if I wanted to make a sprinting charged attack immediately after all of this took place for a forced hit(possibly crit if in place in-game at release)? Do I have to wait for some allotted time period avoiding an attack? Will the shield wielding heavy armor warrior stand a chance at this point based solely on stamina?

3.) [My bread and butter] Dual-Wielding:

One-handed weapons may be combined with a shield or another one-handed weapon (or for instance torches). If a shield is equipped, it will automatically be used for blocking by RMB instead of the weapon (although the weapon might still be used by the auto-blocking system.) When dual-wielding two weapons, tapping a direction and then LMB will charge the corresponding weapon. When charged, simply releasing LMB will make a standard attack, but tapping RMB will instead execute two quick strikes in a row.


Ok, let me first say that I played a rogue class(Infiltrator) in Dark Ages of Camelot for 2 years, and I would easily say that that game defined what a rogue/assassin class with duel-wielding should be. I have played a rogue type character in as many games as I could, including the BETA of WoW(which I didn’t like – yes I don’t like WoW, I said it! LoL).
I have many concerns and questions regarding the duel-wielding skill implementations in this game.
-- Ok, do you have to have one of the two weapons charged In order to utilize the double-strike or can it be done without charging either by just pressing the RMB? I’m assuming it also uses more stamina…?
-- Does the off-hand weapon have the same power output on an attack as the primary handed weapon?
-- Is there any calculated percentage chance at all for a non-coordinated duel-wielded strike without hitting RMB and charging, even if ever so slight?
-- Will there be skills in place to actually strike the more vital “Hitboxes”, or at least some that give a higher chance of hitting one? This could seriously come into play when using a poison on a weapon and hitting a vital spot.

Ok, I’ll end it there for now but there will be many, many posts to come concerning combat systems, but I must say I am completely intrigued with this MMO, and it has single-handedly brought me outta the gamer’s closet.

--=={ Krokar Dreamchaser }==--

[Uffeg]

Hi just checking in, after a long time away, reading this update, almost made me piss my pants, if they can make it work, it will be so f... awesome!

[TyrantSlayer]

ll very interesting details. Looks good, can't wait to see the system in action.

[Matlas]

Nice info thanks for the post!

[Checkitbuddy]

Can not wait to theatrically kill all opponents!
Keep the updates coming

[SudoFX]

God i cant wait for thsi game to come out already lawl, i thought they said they were releasing by 2009? but with beta just starting this 20th of july,will it be pushed back to 2010?