Status of Thievery

[ScarletRose]

The Last thing I want is to open a thread to argue with the devs about their choices.

I'm not saying "we want thievery now" or nothing like that.
If thievery is really still OP, unbalanced or buggy I am the first to want thievery delayed
But since the last turn of event I think we at least deserve some news.

The fact is, I'm here for thievery, thievery is the one single feature that made me choose Mortal instead of other games and right now I'm just killing time waiting for Thievery.
Like me the majority of my guild.

Now, I do not expect release dates. What I want to know is what is required for thievery to be in the game.
Some bugs have to be cleared before we see thievery?
The system still needs to be balanced?
The devs wants specific features to be in BEFORE thievery?
It's all good.. at least we know about that...

If Thievery is out for "popularity issues" I totally understand the situation and the choices of the devs, I hope you well for the future of the game .... but I'm out of here.

And the same goes if no informations are given because having the news that thievery will be in in a week just to ask in a poll if people wanted thievery or guild wars is a kind of a low blow.
We all know that thievery will never be in if it's existance depends on a poll...
Even Thievery against Toilette Deeds would be a total crush on the thievery side.

[lofe_sxe]

/signed ... exept for the "we want thievery now" denyal :P

[Kuroi]

Originally Posted by ScarletRose

We all know that thievery will never be in if it's existance depends on a poll...
Even Thievery against Toilette Deeds would be a total crush on the thievery side.

truth

[ScarletRose]

Originally Posted by lofe_sxe

/signed ... exept for the "we want thievery now" denyal :P

Now would be good but I'm desperate enough to be in the phase...

We Want Thievery ..... please...

[Nex Anima]

/signed

[Artorius]

I'm not missing thieves at all but I'll glady call guards on you again when it's re-enabled.

[ThaBadMan]

If thievery would be put back in, they need atleast to make it so you cant steal from someone who see you or something, and you cant be moving while stealing at least not running and jumping, and it needs to take at least a few seconds between each item you steal and the heavier it is the longer time it should take. If these things where in the thievery system, thieves would need to choose carefully between the targets and time it perfectly to be successful and you should be labeled a hidden crimminal for snooping, cause you shouldnt be able to open other peoples stuff without being able to get the guards on you.

[ScarletRose]

Originally Posted by ThaBadMan

If thievery would be put back in, they need atleast to make it so you cant steal from someone who see you or something, and you cant be moving while stealing at least not running and jumping, and it needs to take at least a few seconds between each item you steal and the heavier it is the longer time it should take. If these things where in the thievery system, thieves would need to choose carefully between the targets and time it perfectly to be successful and you should be labeled a hidden crimminal for snooping, cause you shouldnt be able to open other peoples stuff without being able to get the guards on you.

I agree on everything and I'm willing to go even further.

Heavier items may require a VEEEEERY long time or be totaly beyond the capabilities of a naked thieves so leather gloves may be needed for a better grip, rarer the leather = better the grip = lesser the time

Plus, it would be possible to add a slot in the inventory for a Backpack lock?
As before, more precious the metal = better the lock
That way a player can add an additional layer of defence against thieves.
And a thief should pick the lock with lockpicks ... Again better the metal = better the lockpick.

So .. in the end we would have players that can take measures to defend themselves
and Thieves that may risk... let's say... Full grain Gloves and tungsteel lockpicks

And let's say it ... that would be way cooler even by thieves point of view.

[Katana622]

Originally Posted by ScarletRose

The Last thing I want is to open a thread to argue with the devs about their choices.

I'm not saying "we want thievery now" or nothing like that.
If thievery is really still OP, unbalanced or buggy I am the first to want thievery delayed
But since the last turn of event I think we at least deserve some news.

The fact is, I'm here for thievery, thievery is the one single feature that made me choose Mortal instead of other games and right now I'm just killing time waiting for Thievery.
Like me the majority of my guild.

Now, I do not expect release dates. What I want to know is what is required for thievery to be in the game.
Some bugs have to be cleared before we see thievery?
The system still needs to be balanced?
The devs wants specific features to be in BEFORE thievery?
It's all good.. at least we know about that...

If Thievery is out for "popularity issues" I totally understand the situation and the choices of the devs, I hope you well for the future of the game .... but I'm out of here.

And the same goes if no informations are given because having the news that thievery will be in in a week just to ask in a poll if people wanted thievery or guild wars is a kind of a low blow.
We all know that thievery will never be in if it's existance depends on a poll...
Even Thievery against Toilette Deeds would be a total crush on the thievery side.

I agree with all of the above. Click my sig

[Dreadborne]

this is one of the many reasons my sub is canceled until further clarification and progress on the game. I'm sorry to hear your guild was here for thievery, something that should have been in release, only to get thrown under the bus to please the majority. If I seriously wanted to play a game focused around "guild wars" and territory control, I'd play Darkfall.

[Katana622]

Originally Posted by Dreadborne

this is one of the many reasons my sub is canceled until further clarification and progress on the game. I'm sorry to hear your guild was here for thievery, something that should have been in release, only to get thrown under the bus to please the majority. If I seriously wanted to play a game focused around "guild wars" and territory control, I'd play Darkfall.

Same here man...

I wish someone would just offically say something. Time frame, possible new systems , etc ...


Please? devs? /puppyeyes

[Lagoon]

I agree, we need some update on the status of thievery and in general about what they're working on.

[Narrat]

Yup, some word would be good. Frankly, it's beginning to sound like the devs are honestly considering scrapping it... They remove it because they're unhappy with it (as most of us were), but now it keeps getting pushed back because there's other, more popular, features that devs want to spend their time on instead.

Even if the devs don't officially cross theiving off the 'to-do' list, I'm afraid they'll just keep delaying for another feature... and each delay gets a little easier, and the "pro-thief" crowd thins out more and more... I'm afraid they'll keep delaying until all the "We want thievery now" crowd get pissed and stops watching the forums, and the carebear whiners that USED to whine about thieving will instead whine about something else.

Sorry for doomsaying, that's just my fear...

[GaraP]

I don't want thievery. Not like the way it was. I prefer the game to be some 6 months without thievery than going back to the last system. You couldn't stand 5 seconds in town without 3 naked guys buttrape you.

Devs, take your time and please, only put thievery in when you are sure you have a good thievering system.

[Mats Persson]

Originally Posted by ScarletRose

Now, I do not expect release dates. What I want to know is what is required for thievery to be in the game.
Some bugs have to be cleared before we see thievery?
The system still needs to be balanced?
The devs wants specific features to be in BEFORE thievery?
It's all good.. at least we know about that...

I won't give out promises, and I'm afraid I can't go into details regarding our different areas and current state, but thieving is a features that is highly prioritized, and it is also assigned to someone who will work on it the coming weeks.

That doesn't mean you won't see other features in the mean time, and neither does it mean that those features will have taken time from thievery: We are a small company but not a one-man show, even though Sebastian likes to portray it that way

Even Thievery against Toilette Deeds would be a total crush on the thievery side.

Don't you dare to touch my Toilette Deed!

[GaraP]

Originally Posted by Mats Persson

That doesn't mean you won't see other features in the mean time, and neither does it mean that those features will have taken time from thievery: We are a small company but not a one-man show, even though Sebastian likes to portray it that way

Now now, did i see some bad feelings in that post?
All the devs get our love!


As for the rest, yeah, i believe you even had that explained in some other thread some weeks ago.

[RedGekko]

Unless SV have created a totally new design and methodology for thieving, it will result in the same massive player backlash that we saw in beta.

It would have to be a truly innovative approach to satisfy both the Thief community and the non-thieves (who are the only content for thieves).

We would ALL like to know what is planned. The prospective thieves want to know if the new system will be "good enough" to justify them re-subscribing, and the rest of us want to know if it will be "bad enough" to justify cancelling our subs

[Kuroi]

Originally Posted by Mats Persson

but thieving is a features that is highly prioritized, and it is also assigned to someone who will work on it the coming weeks.!

i'm hating that "will"

[Mats Persson]

Originally Posted by RedGekko

It would have to be a truly innovative approach to satisfy both the Thief community and the non-thieves (who are the only content for thieves).

I can guarantee you that the solution is not: "You steal stuff, but the owner gets to keep a copy, and yay! both are satisfied and live happily ever after in Carebear-land".

And thus, although the system will be much better than before, yes, I guess some people will be angry and leave. Like people leave when they realize it's a full loot game. It's part of the design, and me saying it's a prioritized and important feature are not empty words. And one of the reasons it's prioritized is just that: the longer thievery is delayed, the more "wrong" the image of the game gets in the minds of people.

[deathshroud]

Well please consider my fixes for thievery mats


my fixes for thievery if we must keep current inventory system

books
Pilfering and snooping sorted into 6 books, 3 for each skill at different levels. So..
Pilfering for Pickpockets, Pilfering for Guttersnipes, Pilfering for Thieves.
Snooping for Guttersnipes, Snooping for Pickpockets, snooping for Thieves.
Books vary in cost and are needed to progress from 0-35 35-65 65-100.
Basic books are found in cities the other books are harder to get.

Flag Changes
New flag, Blue with a grey stripe down the middle, this represents a locally allowed to the victim thief for a duration of 10 minutes. A grey striped thief cannot be gwhacked until he has been struck at least once. If the thief decides to fight back then upon a hit to the victim if the victim is blue the thief will go grey flagged. So only the victim can see this flag, all other palyers see just a lbue flag. Meaning the thief was successful at stealing however he isnt completely safe he must hide/ avoid the victim long enough to go blue beofre banking the item that was stolen

Snooping
On a successful snoop the thief remains blue flagged. On a failure atempt the thief becomes Grey stripe flagged visible as grey only to a victim read above. On a catasrophic failure the victim is made aware clearly he is being snooped and the thief appears locally flagged to the victim (dark grey flag)

Pilfering
On a successful steal the thief becomes grey stripe flagged to the victim. On a failure to steal the thief becomes locally allowed to the victim (dark grey flag). On a catastrophic failure the thief becomes grey flagged.

Items
Items that have been recently stolen have a 5 minute cool off period beofre they can be destroyed/ banked/ traded. Within that time the thief must avoid dying to the victim by either hiding from him or avoiding him.

New Skill
Brigandage- primary skill, prequisites pilfering 50 and snooping 50, price 2500 silver. Increases the chances of putting someone into mercy mode by 0-20%. Usefull for thieves who want to play a more aggressive tihef, allowing them to beat down weaker characters into mercy mode and then steal from them.

[Narrat]

Originally Posted by Mats Persson

I won't give out promises, and I'm afraid I can't go into details regarding our different areas and current state, but thieving is a features that is highly prioritized, and it is also assigned to someone who will work on it the coming weeks.

That doesn't mean you won't see other features in the mean time, and neither does it mean that those features will have taken time from thievery: We are a small company but not a one-man show, even though Sebastian likes to portray it that way

Don't you dare to touch my Toilette Deed!

Nice, thanks for posting.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by Mats Persson

the longer thievery is delayed, the more "wrong" the image of the game gets in the minds of people.

I'm really glad you acknowledged this, this has been my fear since release.

[JimyTheHand]

Originally Posted by Mats Persson

I can guarantee you that the solution is not: "You steal stuff, but the owner gets to keep a copy, and yay! both are satisfied and live happily ever after in Carebear-land".

And thus, although the system will be much better than before, yes, I guess some people will be angry and leave. Like people leave when they realize it's a full loot game. It's part of the design, and me saying it's a prioritized and important feature are not empty words. And one of the reasons it's prioritized is just that: the longer thievery is delayed, the more "wrong" the image of the game gets in the minds of people.

amen

[RedGekko]

Originally Posted by Mats Persson

I can guarantee you that the solution is not: "You steal stuff, but the owner gets to keep a copy, and yay! both are satisfied and live happily ever after in Carebear-land".

And thus, although the system will be much better than before, yes, I guess some people will be angry and leave. Like people leave when they realize it's a full loot game. It's part of the design, and me saying it's a prioritized and important feature are not empty words. And one of the reasons it's prioritized is just that: the longer thievery is delayed, the more "wrong" the image of the game gets in the minds of people.

Well, I'd certainly hope that it would be "much better than before"

However, that tells us absolutely nothing, of course, other than the fact that SV intends to stay true to their vision, which is a good thing.

I guess we'll all have to wait patiently until such time as the new system is revealed in some future patch notes.

[lofe_sxe]

thank you Mats ... hope is not dead.

[Alexandre1]

Originally Posted by Mats Persson

I can guarantee you that the solution is not: "You steal stuff, but the owner gets to keep a copy, and yay! both are satisfied and live happily ever after in Carebear-land".

And thus, although the system will be much better than before, yes, I guess some people will be angry and leave. Like people leave when they realize it's a full loot game. It's part of the design, and me saying it's a prioritized and important feature are not empty words. And one of the reasons it's prioritized is just that: the longer thievery is delayed, the more "wrong" the image of the game gets in the minds of people.

Im glad to have glipse of MO developers mind about the game. By discussing in the forum i had the wrong impression about the game being a carebearland where you cant dare participate into a discussion about things like pvp impairment, statloss, consensualism of the upcoming guild warfare and thiefering before some comunity members invite you to "go back to Conterstrike".

Im really happy to see your words and i support wishing a good luck in trasforming MO in a MORTAL game to play, free from an invisible daddy hand protecting a bunch of crying babies.

[ltankhsd]

Thief advocates did a poll about thievery or guild wars as a dev focus. Thievery lost, accept it. It will be in eventually, it's just other stuff is coming first.

[ScarletRose]

Originally Posted by Mats Persson

I won't give out promises, and I'm afraid I can't go into details regarding our different areas and current state, but thieving is a features that is highly prioritized, and it is also assigned to someone who will work on it the coming weeks.

Don't give out Promises
Can't go into detail
Highly prioritized
assignet to someone in the next weeks..

I could expect more but also way less (like no information at all)
From you point of view you guys sure have bigger problem at the moment and I can understand that.
I have only 2 useful things to say

1) there are many suggestions in the forum, and I know how many people that pretend to be the greatest game designer in the world are really not that good...
But in the end emerges what frustrates most about the thievery system.
There are not enough defences from thieves and a thief caught doesn't lose nothing (personally I wander around in rags with my worker, sometimes even with my war but I would never leave my thief in rags, too classy to do that.)
Anyway skills/equip to add a layer of defence from thieves (never thief proof... just harder to rob) and equipment for thieves for increased performances (and of course that means the equipment can be lose) is probably the way to go..

2) I would gladly test the system should you need some testers. And Of course by test I don't mean "play with thievery activated before the rest of the people" I mean test it with a friend or the staff, even be teleported to the island of nowherland and be stripped of every eventual gain and skillpoint earned once the test ends. whatever it takes to have a challenging equilibrate thieving system ASAP

Originally Posted by Mats Persson

That doesn't mean you won't see other features in the mean time, and neither does it mean that those features will have taken time from thievery: We are a small company but not a one-man show, even though Sebastian likes to portray it that way

To not see thievery right now is bad.
To not see any feature until thievery is on is way worst.
Of course we want to see many other features... is all good as long as we know thievery is on the "to do" list

Originally Posted by Mats Persson

Don't you dare to touch my Toilette Deed!

I would never touch YOUR Toilette deed.

[lofe_sxe]

Originally Posted by ScarletRose

I would never touch YOUR Toilette deed.

I stoled YOURS and already sold them on blackmarket.

[Katana622]

Thank you mats <3

You've convinced me to sub again

[Trox]

Originally Posted by Mats Persson

Don't you dare to touch my Toilette Deed!

You realize we will be holding you to this now, and if we don't seem them implemented in the next 4 weeks we will be spamming the forums with a bunch of threads demanding that they be put in game NOW.

[Narrat]

Originally Posted by Trox

You realize we will be holding you to this now, and if we don't seem them implemented in the next 4 weeks we will be spamming the forums with a bunch of threads demanding that they be put in game NOW.

I've loaded up photoshop and am working on my sig now.

[Mats Persson]

Originally Posted by ScarletRose

But in the end emerges what frustrates most about the thievery system.
There are not enough defences from thieves and a thief caught doesn't lose nothing (personally I wander around in rags with my worker, sometimes even with my war but I would never leave my thief in rags, too classy to do that.)

There are/was a great way to protect yourself from thievery and snooping, and that was Intelligence and/or Psyche. However, as the majority of the players were occupied with maxing Str/Dex/Con, I don't think many players noticed that, thieves nor victims.

That is not to say it was "enough" protection. And the bugged flagging didn't help. Neither did the non-existent flagged (red) items, which is kind of a prerequisite for thieving. However, running around with a flesh mountain while expecting to be fully aware of what is going on in your pockets simply won't work, not even in the future updates.

If you are a 100/100/100 warrior, you will have to take the risk of getting stolen from even in the future. It's part of the game. Indeed, you will be able to kill any thief in combat, but discovering the theft will still be a problem. It's like the Mindblast-type spell; by maxing certain attributes at the expense of others you will be a great melee warrior, or maybe even the best, however a magic user will be able to turn your strengths against you.

[lofe_sxe]

Originally Posted by Mats Persson

There are/was a great way to protect yourself from thievery and snooping, and that was Intelligence and/or Psyche. However, as the majority of the players were occupied with maxing Str/Dex/Con, I don't think many players noticed that, thieves nor victims.

That is not to say it was "enough" protection. And the bugged flagging didn't help. Neither did the non-existent flagged (red) items, which is kind of a prerequisite for thieving. However, running around with a flesh mountain while expecting to be fully aware of what is going on in your pockets simply won't work, not even in the future updates.

If you are a 100/100/100 warrior, you will have to take the risk of getting stolen from even in the future. It's part of the game. Indeed, you will be able to kill any thief in combat, but discovering the theft will still be a problem. It's like the Mindblast-type spell; by maxing certain attributes at the expense of others you will be a great melee warrior, or maybe even the best, however a magic user will be able to turn your strengths against you.

This makes alot of sense ... btw, I do not understand the bolded part (my bad english prooly :P )

[ScarletRose]

Originally Posted by Mats Persson

That is not to say it was "enough" protection. And the bugged flagging didn't help. Neither did the non-existent flagged (red) items, which is kind of a prerequisite for thieving. However, running around with a flesh mountain while expecting to be fully aware of what is going on in your pockets simply won't work, not even in the future updates.

The Red flag items is actually a pretti cool feature.
It could open up things for Fences and that's a completely new concept ... something the underworld would be interested for sure.

Originally Posted by lofe_sxe

I stoled YOURS and already sold them on blackmarket.

Are you telling me there is a viable market for used toilettes? Gross....

....now hand me a deed ... I'm going to make some money...

[Mats Persson]

Originally Posted by Trox

You realize we will be holding you to this now, and if we don't seem them implemented in the next 4 weeks we will be spamming the forums with a bunch of threads demanding that they be put in game NOW.

OK, alright, from now on Toilette Deeds will be our main focus for the next patch/patches. They will hopefully feature both "sitting" and "standing" positions depending on both your nationality and current "need", and will of course give a boost to Intelligence gain. And require at least one out of 5 skills to use them; if you for instance have both the Toilette Sitting and Deep Thoughts maxed, you will have a 0,000234 chance to get the Heureka! skill for each minute standing/sitting on the appliance! If in a Tindremic Bath, of course. A Khurite bath on the other hand will only let you gain in Endurance, with a 0,094 chance of getting the "Exhaustion" skill, effectively rendering a random number of your stats useless, until you untrain it by getting the Deflect Constipation skill from a vendor hidden somewhere deep in the jungle. We're on it!

[Mats Persson]

Originally Posted by lofe_sxe

This makes alot of sense ... btw, I do not understand the bolded part (my bad english prooly :P )

With the ability to flag items, not only the thief/fencer, thievery would be in another position. Before, you could steal items from a guy next to a vendor, while at the same time accessing the vendor and deposit the loot. If an item in itself were to be flagged, for a certain amount of time, it would mean that both you and the item is flagged, and so would your partner be if you'd handle it over. You would still be able to steal (and get flagged), but neither you nor a partner would be able to store the item in a bank before a certain amount of time.

[Kuroi]

is always good to be feed by Mats <3

[deathshroud]

the current intell/str thing on mind blast makes no sense what so ever. Shouldnt it put the mages intell up agaisnt the targets intell instead? for example if the targets intell is lower than the mages he will take damage and if its higher then the mage will take damage.

I dont understand why str and intell need to be equal for it to not work? how is that logical?

for thieveryresistance should be thiefs dex vs targets intelligence, if the thiefs dex is higher then he is more likely to succeed.

[Kuroi]

Originally Posted by deathshroud

the current intell/str thing on mind blast makes no sense what so ever. Shouldnt it put the mages intell up agaisnt the targets intell instead? for example if the targets intell is lower than the mages he will take damage and if its higher then the mage will take damage.

I dont understand why str and intell need to be equal for it to not work? how is that logical?

for thieveryresistance should be thiefs dex vs targets intelligence, if the thiefs dex is higher then he is more likely to succeed.

maybe it's targetSTR - (minus) targetINT, so if a warrior has got 100 str and 10 int, the damage should be 90

[fungos]

Thievery should be affected by amount of people near and light sources, so thieves will try to stay under the shadows.