Epic update? - Page 2

Hodo · 21st July 2010, 22:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paratus

Stratics, the IRC server MO already uses, does something like that which they call the "House of Commons" chats.

Was a huge thing back in the day with UO.

The difference would be using a voice chat program is we finally get to hear their voices. Which does much from turning the programmers from faceless walls of text, to actual people somewhere in the world.

And Henrik almost forgot my biggest most important question....

When will the Thusar get flaws that match the fluff? Like PERMA-GREY FLAG!

Mark · 21st July 2010, 22:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hodo

Thank you for that answer.

Perhaps you all at SV should schedual a once a month Teamspeak3 or IRC dev chat.

Where everyone is muted by the channel admin and must basicly turn on their light to ask a question. TS3 has the channel commander option that turns your light red.

This would do much to giving the community a idea of where your going, and the ability to give real time Q&A.

A previous game that I used to play does this, and it was always a great success.

They should do a vent with the devs in it, and mute everyone else then players put their questions in ther comments and the devs answer them one by one instead of a mass spammed chat or IRC.

EDIT: Or just unmute people to hear their questions and respond to the devs answers, that works too

.

Kuroi · 21st July 2010, 22:50

i prefer the chat, cause we can share the answers better

Deddarus · 21st July 2010, 23:01

aside from textures are there any plans to smooth the jagged look of the terrain .. it seems to be very low poly count atm

Mark · 21st July 2010, 23:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deddarus

aside from textures are there any plans to smooth the jagged look of the terrain .. it seems to be very low poly count atm

Yea, and it seems some mobs such as the nitrite finger are absurdly smoothed.

TooArticulateToHandle · 21st July 2010, 23:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henrik Nystrom

Yes I think the tree models are changed, to a cheaper one, but it didnt change the performance I think, so we will remake trees again to make them look better in time.

And like you clearly can see, its getting night in the later screen, harder to justed compare a half way night screens visuals with a full day screen.
But like I said, I still think we need to tweak the changing effect during time.

Hi Henrik! Just a quick clarification. When you say "we will remake trees again" do you mean you re-model the trees yourselves?

Crucial · 21st July 2010, 23:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henrik Nystrom

Yes I think the tree models are changed, to a cheaper one, but it didnt change the performance I think, so we will remake trees again to make them look better in time.

And like you clearly can see, its getting night in the later screen, harder to justed compare a half way night screens visuals with a full day screen.
But like I said, I still think we need to tweak the changing effect during time.

Perhaps Speed Tree coming soon?!?

I love it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msBV2j6aLk0

.

Mauzi · 21st July 2010, 23:50

Nice Henrik, good news. Also I like your approach in this task.

TooArticulateToHandle · 21st July 2010, 23:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crucial

Perhaps Speed Tree coming soon?!?

I love it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msBV2j6aLk0

.

hmmm I am not sure. One way to read what henrik said is that speed tree 5 is still along way off?

Paratus · 22nd July 2010, 00:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crucial

Perhaps Speed Tree coming soon?!?

I love it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msBV2j6aLk0

.

Speedtree is awesome, but don't get too excited. The trees in that video are ~ 8000 triangles each. That kind of detail level won't work in an MMO.

TomBor · 22nd July 2010, 00:03

Thanks Henrik!

It looks like Kopatch was spot on!

Mendrak · 22nd July 2010, 00:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paratus

Speedtree is awesome, but don't get too excited. The trees in that video are ~ 8000 triangles each. That kind of detail level won't work in an MMO.

It would still be nice to have the wind blowing the trees and if you put some more lifelike bamboo in Toxai instead of that cardboard painted with a picture look. The texturing is also quite poor on a lot of the trees, like the firmwood/pine. Even if having the textures higher means running slower, at least give us the option of turning it up or not.

**Henrik Nystrom** · 22nd July 2010, 00:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by TooArticulateToHandle

Hi Henrik! Just a quick clarification. When you say "we will remake trees again" do you mean you re-model the trees yourselves?

We have made all trees on our own yes. It's not that we remake all trees and place them all over again, they already got their location.

Changing our static trees to speedtree would not be to hard for us, but we first need to test the new speetree in our new build to be sure its working performance wise, a speedtree cost more performance than our current trees.

They will probably not look like in those videos as they really max their poly count and details because thats all they show, an engine just to show trees, grass and shadows and thats it, and a few textures high res.

Now Unreal render these trees differently, but we are really looking forward to see the new improved implementation how the speedtree 5 is being run in UE3. They say they rebuilt it pretty much from scratch and they are more optimized and looks even better because of the smooth lod changes. We actually hand build all lod and massive lods for our game, with the new speed tree this is also rebuild within ST thats supposed to be even more effective and better looking. But we have to wait before we cheer of these new trees. There's still a chance that they are to expensive in our large non instanced world. Worst case scenario we cannot use ST still without even more optimization, but what we can do for sure is making better trees than we have today. We are far from poly cap at the moment, but have to solve the textures as described before, cause thats our current cap. Texture memory which we will work on.

Mark · 22nd July 2010, 00:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henrik Nystrom

We have made all trees on our own yes. It's not that we remake all trees and place them all over again, they already got their location.

Changing our static trees to speedtree would not be to hard for us, but we first need to test the new speetree in our new build to be sure its working performance wise, a speedtree cost more performance than our current trees.

They will probably not look like in those videos as they really max their poly count and details because thats all they show, an engine just to show trees, grass and shadows and thats it, and a few textures high res.

Now Unreal render these trees differently, but we are really looking forward to see the new improved implementation how the speedtree 5 is being run in UE3. They say they rebuilt it pretty much from scratch and they are more optimized and looks even better because of the smooth lod changes. We actually hand build all lod and massive lods for our game, with the new speed tree this is also rebuild within ST thats supposed to be even more effective and better looking. But we have to wait before we cheer of these new trees. There's still a chance that they are to expensive in our large non instanced world. Worst case scenario we cannot use ST still without even more optimization, but what we can do for sure is making better trees than we have today. We are far from poly cap at the moment, but have to solve the textures as described before, cause thats our current cap. Texture memory which we will work on.

Ah yes, your post has remind me, what about optimization? When your done optimizing the game how much faster will it run? Can you estimate the percent of completion of the game's optimization? Do you have an estimate as to when the game will be fully optimized?

Narrat · 22nd July 2010, 00:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark

Ah yes, your post has remind me, what about optimization? When your done optimizing the game how much faster will it run? Can you estimate the percent of completion of the game's optimization? Do you have an estimate as to when the game will be fully optimized?

There's no such thing as "fully optimized". That's like asking when a game is gonna be "perfect".

Mark · 22nd July 2010, 00:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Narrat

There's no such thing as "fully optimized". That's like asking when a game is gonna be "perfect".

I mean optimized to the developer's satisfaction.

**Henrik Nystrom** · 22nd July 2010, 00:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark

I mean optimized to the developer's satisfaction.

Sorry but I cant answer that today.
All I know is that we have a lot of room to optimize the game.
It will simply improve over time, there are allways room for improvement, even when you think there's not

TooArticulateToHandle · 22nd July 2010, 00:59

Thanks for the answer Henrik!

Mark · 22nd July 2010, 01:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henrik Nystrom

Sorry but I cant answer that today.
All I know is that we have a lot of room to optimize the game.
It will simply improve over time, there are allways room for improvement, even when you think there's not

Alright, thank you.

mikesanimation · 22nd July 2010, 01:01

What other game's forum have you seen the CEO answer in-depth questions about the technical side of game? At 12:30 AM nonetheless!

<3 Star Vault

I'd +rep you Henrik, but that doesn't exist on here anymore

+5 inches of epenis.

Narrat · 22nd July 2010, 01:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikesanimation

What other game's forum have you seen the CEO answer in-depth questions about the technical side of game? At 12:30 AM nonetheless!

<3 Star Vault

I'd +rep you Henrik, but that doesn't exist on here anymore

+5 inches of epenis.

Whoa, I didn't realize what time it is in sweden...

SOFWarrior · 22nd July 2010, 01:19

Wow, a lot of really nice info thoughout this thread, straight from SV.

Cool.

tommya06 · 22nd July 2010, 01:49

Just posting to say I appreciate the updates.

Good stuff.

Malyk · 22nd July 2010, 01:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by tommya06

Just posting to say I appreciate the updates.

Good stuff.

Agreed, thank you for the updates Henrik.

chickenkicker · 22nd July 2010, 02:05

these are the kind of post that help me keep my faith that this game will one day rule them all.

Morthi · 22nd July 2010, 02:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henrik Nystrom

We are working to make combat feel better and get away from a spam fest only strategic. One step was to add spamming=crap damage. We have some things left to add, and rebalance, then see if we need to overall slow down the speed or what we need to do to make it even better. Combat beta was ok, but it was still very one way strategic of fighting, we want more depth than that.

Just do not make it too slow - faster it is more player skill involved which is good.

Cheith · 22nd July 2010, 03:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morthi

Just do not make it too slow - faster it is more player skill involved which is good.

meh, do you mean skill or twitch .... because twitch speed != skill.

Hefeisten · 22nd July 2010, 03:55

this game has alot of potential, and will have a very bright future, i cant wait to see this game with more content and quality, it is already a great game, i hope the game becomes more popular, as players are getting harder and harder to find, also the economy could use a little tweak, like maybe reducing the money that a vendor pays for mats, and adding a drop of silver to some monsters ect

Zolten · 22nd July 2010, 04:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morthi

Just do not make it too slow - faster it is more player skill involved which is good.

faster does not = more player skill. Chess is one of the slowest player vs player games, which, takes massive amounts of thought and skill. The same concept can be put into pvp in a MMO.

maveriq · 22nd July 2010, 04:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Narrat

There's no such thing as "fully optimized". That's like asking when a game is gonna be "perfect".

Yes, there is.

When you do everything possible to get something better and there is simply nothing else to do, it is already on it's peak, that's full optimization.

It does not mean that it will be perfect, but that whatever is left after, is simply impossible to further optimize.

Optimization is the search for optimal state, not the search for perfection.

deathshroud · 22nd July 2010, 07:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henrik Nystrom

We have made all trees on our own yes. It's not that we remake all trees and place them all over again, they already got their location.

Changing our static trees to speedtree would not be to hard for us, but we first need to test the new speetree in our new build to be sure its working performance wise, a speedtree cost more performance than our current trees.

They will probably not look like in those videos as they really max their poly count and details because thats all they show, an engine just to show trees, grass and shadows and thats it, and a few textures high res.

Now Unreal render these trees differently, but we are really looking forward to see the new improved implementation how the speedtree 5 is being run in UE3. They say they rebuilt it pretty much from scratch and they are more optimized and looks even better because of the smooth lod changes. We actually hand build all lod and massive lods for our game, with the new speed tree this is also rebuild within ST thats supposed to be even more effective and better looking. But we have to wait before we cheer of these new trees. There's still a chance that they are to expensive in our large non instanced world. Worst case scenario we cannot use ST still without even more optimization, but what we can do for sure is making better trees than we have today. We are far from poly cap at the moment, but have to solve the textures as described before, cause thats our current cap. Texture memory which we will work on.

i just hope with speedtree you will also add 3d grass in some ofrm or another to all locations because without it the ground textures look horrible.

Cable · 22nd July 2010, 08:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isher

They needed it for speedtree.

That doesn't mean foliage and shit are magically inserted into the game by fairies.

It doesn't have anything to do with better resolutions at all.

Click last 2 links in my sig.

wait a sec....they are using fairies? I knew about the magic but the fairies...that's excellent.

Maybe they can magic in a server for America at some point. I tested the lag by going to a friend's house that has multiple computers set up with MO on them and I tested the amount of time it took for motion to occur after I had done something. It took about a second to carry out the moves I did on my friends other pc. That 1 second is huge in this kind of game. They need to throw a server in the US.

evilduck · 22nd July 2010, 09:09

in depth discusion with the ceo... and some people still claim there is a lack of comunication (in other threads)

btw great info about development in the near future, thanks a lot

evilduck

Bataille · 22nd July 2010, 10:29

Thanks for all the updates and info Henrik!

Ni gör ett jävligt bra jobb!

frejo · 22nd July 2010, 11:11

Thanks for the updates Henrik!

I like the idea about a dev interview using vent or similar, it would be cool if we could submit questions to MO Radio who in turn could do a dev/ceo interview. Just make sure the audio is available for those who can't listen to it live

Morthi · 22nd July 2010, 15:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zolten

faster does not = more player skill. Chess is one of the slowest player vs player games, which, takes massive amounts of thought and skill. The same concept can be put into pvp in a MMO.

It does ,faster the combat is faster player have to react and needs to aim quicker and that requires skills and lots of practice my friend, if you want chess style pvp go play chess instead.

dscoombs · 22nd July 2010, 15:53

"go play chess"

MoFo a better class of forum community :P

Volteau · 22nd July 2010, 16:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuroi

and in the first screen i had even disabled shadows, the other settings are maxed in both screens

That first pic gave me a sea of nostalgia...

evilduck · 22nd July 2010, 16:06

@ morthi

reflexes are not the same as skill.

roidanielsen · 22nd July 2010, 16:16

Henrik. Are you going to add more undergrowth to the game world or is that too heavy on perfomance?

The open flat grounds with some horrible looking bushes are just a pain to look at. Hopefully the HD textures will improve that, but more undergrowth would just make the world even more immersive :P

You could even have an option to add undergrowth in the settings

21st July 2010, 22:50	#43 (permalink)
Kuroi Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Italy, Naples Age: 24 Posts: 2,841 Rep Power: 4	i prefer the chat, cause we can share the answers better __________________ 22/july/09 first log in cool memories <3

21st July 2010, 23:50	#48 (permalink)
Mauzi Status King Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 3,615 Rep Power: 6	Nice Henrik, good news. Also I like your approach in this task. __________________ Thank you for reading, Mauzi. _____________________________________________ Did you know: There's no archery without drawbacks... _____________________________________________ Bouja, famous bowyer of Bakti Finest bows for all your needs, also specialized in low and high strength bows

22nd July 2010, 01:49	#63 (permalink)
tommya06 Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 109 Rep Power: 0	awsome Just posting to say I appreciate the updates. Good stuff.

21st July 2010, 23:01	#44 (permalink)
Deddarus Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 742 Rep Power: 2	aside from textures are there any plans to smooth the jagged look of the terrain .. it seems to be very low poly count atm

22nd July 2010, 00:03	#51 (permalink)
TomBor Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Meduli Posts: 834 Rep Power: 0	Thanks Henrik! It looks like Kopatch was spot on!

22nd July 2010, 00:59	#58 (permalink)
TooArticulateToHandle Banned Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 110 Rep Power: 0	Thanks for the answer Henrik!

22nd July 2010, 01:19	#62 (permalink)
SOFWarrior Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 894 Rep Power: 3	Wow, a lot of really nice info thoughout this thread, straight from SV. Cool.

22nd July 2010, 03:55	#68 (permalink)
Hefeisten Junior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: NZ Age: 30 Posts: 178 Rep Power: 2	this game has alot of potential, and will have a very bright future, i cant wait to see this game with more content and quality, it is already a great game, i hope the game becomes more popular, as players are getting harder and harder to find, also the economy could use a little tweak, like maybe reducing the money that a vendor pays for mats, and adding a drop of silver to some monsters ect

22nd July 2010, 09:09	#73 (permalink)
evilduck Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Germany - Rhein Main Area Age: 44 Posts: 162 Rep Power: 3	in depth discusion with the ceo... and some people still claim there is a lack of comunication (in other threads) btw great info about development in the near future, thanks a lot evilduck

22nd July 2010, 10:29	#74 (permalink)
Bataille Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 817 Rep Power: 2	Thanks for all the updates and info Henrik! Ni gör ett jävligt bra jobb!

22nd July 2010, 11:11	#75 (permalink)
frejo Junior Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 100 Rep Power: 0	Thanks for the updates Henrik! I like the idea about a dev interview using vent or similar, it would be cool if we could submit questions to MO Radio who in turn could do a dev/ceo interview. Just make sure the audio is available for those who can't listen to it live

22nd July 2010, 16:06	#79 (permalink)
evilduck Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Germany - Rhein Main Area Age: 44 Posts: 162 Rep Power: 3	@ morthi reflexes are not the same as skill.

22nd July 2010, 16:16	#80 (permalink)
roidanielsen Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: I live in a cave. Posts: 538 Rep Power: 0	Henrik. Are you going to add more undergrowth to the game world or is that too heavy on perfomance? The open flat grounds with some horrible looking bushes are just a pain to look at. Hopefully the HD textures will improve that, but more undergrowth would just make the world even more immersive :P You could even have an option to add undergrowth in the settings

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