Horse Discussion/Combat/Over Powered

[Henrik Ekholm]

Originally Posted by Crypton

1. One of my biggest gripes with Horses in there current state is the over all lack of sound.

Big overhaul regarding horse footsteps coming this next patch.

[Pakee]

It must be something done with all this knockdown crap and not being able to hit horse charging on you with white weapons, soon horses will be even stronger with armors. Good luck to kill full armored bullhorse, even with bows it will be mission immposible.

[Ruellis]

Originally Posted by Henrik Ekholm

Big overhaul regarding horse footsteps coming this next patch.

When can we have horse reins?

[madsholme]

i also hate how horse men just apear and dissapear into the distance, even though that are not that "far" away.. only 30 sec of riding.

and the animation you get when a player loads on a horse seems odd.. small isues but

[princereaper]

just shoot the horse down :P 3-4 hits and its dead..only ploblem is dodging the horse and running around mounted mages.

[H2Os]

I think another way to balance horses would be to make the rider lose stamina depending on the speed the horse is galloping. I'm almost sure that the rider does lose stamina as he or she rides it but it's such a insignificant amount that it doesn't matter. So if they fix this, that means people aren't instantly gaining stam back while riding, and if the riders stam reaches 0 the rider should be thrown from the horse.

[werbe-tonne]

Originally Posted by H2Os

I think another way to balance horses would be to make the rider lose stamina depending on the speed the horse is galloping. I'm almost sure that the rider does lose stamina as he or she rides it but it's such a insignificant amount that it doesn't matter. So if they fix this, that means people aren't instantly gaining stam back while riding, and if the riders stam reaches 0 the rider should be thrown from the horse.

I have to agree on this, at least while the ride is in combatmode. Since he/she can't use the hands to "steer" the horse or balance himself/herself, it is required to use the legs to stay upright and on the horse. Even more when charging a weapon of any kind. For this to happen and be balanced it would be required to make mages use the combat mode bare-handed when casting "agressive" spells at least... even better for any spell!

[Artorius]

Originally Posted by Henrik Ekholm

Big overhaul regarding horse footsteps coming this next patch.

cool

[Hodo]

Originally Posted by H2Os

I think another way to balance horses would be to make the rider lose stamina depending on the speed the horse is galloping. I'm almost sure that the rider does lose stamina as he or she rides it but it's such a insignificant amount that it doesn't matter. So if they fix this, that means people aren't instantly gaining stam back while riding, and if the riders stam reaches 0 the rider should be thrown from the horse.

This would give Controlled Riding a use.

[metavision]

Originally Posted by Crypton

Currently Horses are ridiculously over powered. Keep in mind while reading my ideas that I do in fact, both reap the risks and rewards associated with horses but I feel over all they are ruining the game for many reasons and I will give those examples below. Im not saying they should not be a part of combat but I AM saying in its current state somethings are not working.


1. One of my biggest gripes with Horses in there current state is the over all lack of sound. While out farming you should be able to hear horses in the distance so you can be on the alert. You are still at a huge disadvantage being on the ground vs. a horse so a little warning ahead of time makes sense.

Example: One day I was out taming with my mage at the wolves. Of course while taming you can not have a horse so your not in a good position to begin with but the problem I had was how I got attacked while taming. Keep in mind I keep my sound turned up fairly loud because I like the ambient sounds in the game and the emersion that comes with it and I have tested the sound from all driections in all of my speakers it seems to work well directionally.

Big problem ? Horses and most animals seem to glide and have no sound what so ever so while my mage should have been alerted to approaching horses he was not and what resulted was a complete beatdown. I was fine with getting killed but I was not fine with not being able to hear anything at all it was a compltely silent death and perma knockdown. I call this Ninja Horse, and it needs to be addressed.

I should have been alerted to approaching horses which would have drasticly increased my odds of engaging my attackers. As it stands right now PKers have a 100 % absolute "i win button" when it comes o attacking people farming mobs. I believe this is one area that Darkfall got correct you could hear mounts in the distance and be ready to fight or run for your life if need be. It is ridiculous to be perma knocked down by a silent horse and have no way at all to do anything. This does not promote PVP it ruins it. I would think the PKers would want the challenge rather than beating someone to death on the ground.


2. The horse Knock Down. This is the single most ridiculous combat manouver in the game. Yes, once again I use this tactic because its there for me to use but no matter how you look at it its way way Overpowered. What I suggest is that rather than have the horse used as a battering ram make it so that the Player on the horse MUST USE HIS WEAPON to knock the players down and must also have the mounted combat ability ( at a high level possibly 80 + ) in order to do so. This will make the actual knockdown of another player skill based you will have to time your approach and direction and also swing a weapon lowering your chances at an actual knock down which in turn would make the entire Dynamic of Horses more realistic.


3. Chances to knock players off horses. Lets assume sound is fixed and my above reccomendations are in the game. IF I hear a horse coming at me while Im farming mobs for mats I can turn and be ready for battle ( or I can run if I so choose). As the horse approaches me and the player has his weapon drawn to knock me down I should also have the chance to knock him off the horse with a well timeed swing of my TWO HANDED WEAPON. I say 2 handed weapon due to the weight involved. Swininging at a player with a 1 handed sword might not have the force needed to knock someone off a horse or the percentages should be really low. Either way no matter how this is implemented it would add a nice dynamic to combat and remove the 100 % chance mounted players who sneak up to farming players on Ninja horses currently enjoy.


I think the above suggestions will help with Mounted mages, and Mounted archers as well. I dont ask for mages and archers to be nerfed I ask for horses to become more realistic. I fought a mage on horse back once and I hit him about four times while he was mounted with a high damage 2handed steel weapon and while I did damage to the horse he just trotted off turned and rammed be down and proceeded to cast on me keep me peram Knocked down until he finally killed me. Whats wrong with this situation ? Why after pounding his horse to near death did a naked mage basicly get the total upper hand in the battle ? I have spoken to alot of players and they all seem to agree horses are hurting the game in the current state.

I encourage everyone to please post you ideas an experiences in the game regarding horses and how the system can be more realistic and promote more balanced PVP situations.

These 2 things will solve nearly all horse exploits.

• Add considerable cost in stamina, when mounting and unmount a horse.
• Reduce the "cone effect" or hit box for trample.

I have had people bear down on me and 5 seconds before they do, dart quickly behind a tree, with no LOS to the horse rider and still get knocked down.

That alone^ indicates the area effect of trample is WRONG.



Secondly, if it takes stamina to jump, then it easily should take 5x that amount to haul yourself (along with armor and weapons) up on a horse. Slightly less (3x more than jump) for swinging your body off and landing on the ground and dismounting.


That way, if people want to trample, or chase people on horses, you won't be getting on/off every 10 seconds when chasing someone... you'll be out of stamina if you don't watch yourself.

[Hodo]

Originally Posted by metavision

These 2 things will solve nearly all horse exploits.

• Add considerable cost in stamina, when mounting and unmount a horse.
• Reduce the "cone effect" or hit box for trample.

I have had people bear down on me and 5 seconds before they do, dart quickly behind a tree, with no LOS to the horse rider and still get knocked down.

That alone^ indicates the area effect of trample is WRONG.



Secondly, if it takes stamina to jump, then it easily should take 5x that amount to haul yourself (along with armor and weapons) up on a horse. Slightly less (3x more than jump) for swinging your body off and landing on the ground and dismounting.


That way, if people want to trample, or chase people on horses, you won't be getting on/off every 10 seconds when chasing someone... you'll be out of stamina if you don't watch yourself.

Cant say I agree with the stamina use getting on or off a horse.

Seriously I wonder if some of you just dont bother to try something out before you bitch about it.

You think its easy fighting from horse back. Its not, I dont WANT to hit a person with my horse, it costs stamina, and hurts my horse. Not to mention brings me to a dead stop. Which is a bad thing.

Yes mounted fighting needs some tweaks, but what some of you are suggesting will turn this game into dismounted fighting only, where the THURSAR are king.

Fuck
That.

[metavision]

Originally Posted by Hodo

Cant say I agree with the stamina use getting on or off a horse.

Seriously I wonder if some of you just dont bother to try something out before you bitch about it.

You think its easy fighting from horse back. Its not, I dont WANT to hit a person with my horse, it costs stamina, and hurts my horse. Not to mention brings me to a dead stop. Which is a bad thing.

Yes mounted fighting needs some tweaks, but what some of you are suggesting will turn this game into dismounted fighting only, where the THURSAR are king.

Fuck
That.

You have reading issues.

My suggestions hinder the over-use of trample to a more precise encounter & secondly... that those who constantly use trample and get on and off their horses during a fight, will have less stamina than those who choose to stay on their horses and just fight. (ie: promotes horse combat)

Currently, to kill someone you just have to ride a horse near them, trample them and get off and finish them. Instead of actually using mounted combat... of swinging your weapon while on the horse.

[zpullin]

Originally Posted by metavision

You have reading issues.



Currently, to kill someone you just have to ride a horse near them, trample them and get off and finish them. Instead of actually using mounted combat... of swinging your weapon while on the horse.

Not because we want to, because mounted combat and charge are broke and are pretty much useless. They need mounted weapons before mounted melee combat will be viable.

[Gorkilla]

We have to admit, with a mount you have a huge advantage in combat and i think this is not fair because if you want to be a mounted soldier all you have to do is increase your riding skill (doesn't matter Mounted combat) because the only skill you are going to use is the damn knockdown on people without mount.

I have half points on Knockdown and knockback resistances and i never resisted a knockdown. If a horse comes runing to me at max speed i should be able to avoid it, if i fail then i fall down, ok. But yesterday i was surprised by 2 riders after losing my pet in a spider cave (btw, it was because spiders were bugged and attacked my horse in invisible mode and he died), anyway, the lack of any sound is really annoying, they jumped over us with no advice, in the middle of the night, the only sound I could hear was my shout when i was hit...they were a mage and an archer, mage dismounted and i managed to attack and interrupt his casts, good, the worst thing was when the archer (1 meter behind me) knock me down over and over again with his mount...what??? he didn't even need to run to push me down!

I am agree with the OP and I suggest that:

- game needs realistic sounds when mounted players are coming
- Knockdown ressistance...does it work if you don't have 100 skill points on it?
- Not all horses should be able to charge people (and only if the horse is runing at max speed or something like that)
- It should be more easy to avoid mounted charges and hard to impact people on foot with your mount.
- Change the horse direction need to be a bit more realistic (M&B as always)

Thanks for reading

[zpullin]

Originally Posted by Gorkilla

We have to admit, with a mount you have a huge advantage in combat and i think this is not fair because if you want to be a mounted soldier all you have to do is increase your riding skill (doesn't matter Mounted combat) because the only skill you are going to use is the damn knockdown on people without mount.

I have half points on Knockdown and knockback resistances and i never resisted a knockdown. If a horse comes runing to me at max speed i should be able to avoid it, if i fail then i fall down, ok. But yesterday i was surprised by 2 riders after losing my pet in a spider cave (btw, it was because spiders were bugged and attacked my horse in invisible mode and he died), anyway, the lack of any sound is really annoying, they jumped over us with no advice, in the middle of the night, the only sound I could hear was my shout when i was hit...they were a mage and an archer, mage dismounted and i managed to attack and interrupt his casts, good, the worst thing was when the archer (1 meter behind me) knock me down over and over again with his mount...what??? he didn't even need to run to push me down!

I am agree with the OP and I suggest that:

- game needs realistic sounds when mounted players are coming
- Knockdown ressistance...does it work if you don't have 100 skill points on it?
- Not all horses should be able to charge people (and only if the horse is runing at max speed or something like that)
- It should be more easy to avoid mounted charges and hard to impact people on foot with your mount.
- Change the horse direction need to be a bit more realistic (M&B as always)

Thanks for reading

I have 100 mounted combat and 100 mounted charge. Apart from knocking people down, horses are useless. I hit people with a hammer at full speed for the same about as if I were on foot. If my horse stops, it is easily killed, I am thrown off, and I die. Knockdown is the only advantage to a horse right now, and if it is resisted, my horse and I die because we stop.

[Hodo]

Originally Posted by metavision

You have reading issues.

My suggestions hinder the over-use of trample to a more precise encounter & secondly... that those who constantly use trample and get on and off their horses during a fight, will have less stamina than those who choose to stay on their horses and just fight. (ie: promotes horse combat)

Currently, to kill someone you just have to ride a horse near them, trample them and get off and finish them. Instead of actually using mounted combat... of swinging your weapon while on the horse.

Ok I see what your trying to say now, and yes I agree with you. Although I dont use those tactics personally I see them used everyday.

Originally Posted by zpullin

Not because we want to, because mounted combat and charge are broke and are pretty much useless. They need mounted weapons before mounted melee combat will be viable.

And this is the gods honest truth. The problem is also there is a handful of viable weapons to use on foot, and even less to use on horseback. Not to mention the lack of counter weapons. The current greatest counter weapons to a mounted fighter is a big rock you can jump on and magic. Because a bow is useless at speed on a horse, as it should be (strictly for balance reasons). Magic is also useless at speed on horseback, again for balance reasons.

Currently the most powerful weapon on horseback is the one that ISNT a weapon..... a 2handed short handle made of metal with no head. Was broken in beta, is still broken.

Originally Posted by zpullin

I have 100 mounted combat and 100 mounted charge. Apart from knocking people down, horses are useless. I hit people with a hammer at full speed for the same about as if I were on foot. If my horse stops, it is easily killed, I am thrown off, and I die. Knockdown is the only advantage to a horse right now, and if it is resisted, my horse and I die because we stop.

I think the horse suggestion is great. I remember somewhere along the lines of development they discussed making it so only certain horses can carry certain riders in armor. I think it was Jutons and Bulls being the only horses that can carry a person in plate. All the other horses relegated to medium and light armors. Which I am completely fine with.

I also think it would be great if those two horses would be the only two that can knock someone over with a charge. AND added to them, they dont stop when they hit someone. After all does a bull stop when it hits someone, fuck no. Does a horse stop when it hits someone... not the last time I checked.