The Thievery-system has been revamped and is now activated again.

[Cronnix]

Still missing system to prevent someone from following me and spam attempting to steal even when I am watching him.. I dont want to be chased around town by thieves only because I cant do anything to prevent the crime

[iewcce]

Originally Posted by killing karma

Still no risk... Thieves need tools or something.

"Risk for snooping is required." Agreed. If I have money in a bag inside my pants next to my balls, and a thief is snooping it. I'm going to kill him.

might aswell quote u here to. the punishment for thievery used to be to get their hand chopped off (in some country, sometime long ago dno..^) A statloss could resemble that!

Originally Posted by Cronnix

Still missing system to prevent someone from following me and spam attempting to steal even when I am watching him.. I dont want to be chased around town by thieves only because I cant do anything to prevent the crime

shouldnt be able to steal from someone who targeted u imo!

[Cronnix]

Originally Posted by iewcce

shouldnt be able to steal from someone who targeted u imo!

Yeah, that would make sense, since why should he be able to steal if I am closely watching him.. however while he is distracting me, his buddy could steal, would be quite realistic instead of current system..

[Electrum]

I was just going through this in my head, tell me what you all think. I'm not much of a fan of either of these, but I figured I would share.

In a world where thieves are controlled....

IDEA #1

When a player types "thief" or "thief name" into chat, they essentially mark their target or the player they named. Then, if that person steals from them in the next, say, 2 minutes, they will turn gray instantly. You can imagine that you are giving the guards a heads up, telling them to watch out for that person. Similarly to calling the guards, though, liars and wolf criers are to be punished. If a player marks more than 3 people in, say, 5 minutes, they will be ignored for 15 in both guard and thief calls, or, better, they are killed.

The flaws: Everyone will call thief whenever they can to anything they even remotely believe to be a thief. This would cause a massive loss of targets, which would need serious balancing.

IDEA #2

When a player types thief or thief name, they essentially mark their target, or the player they named, just as above. Differently, if the player they have marked then snoops them, they will immediately turn hidden gray. This way, since the player will know they are a thief, they can get them killed before anything is stolen. To prevent spamming, this command could only be used 3 times in a 5 minute period. Going over this would simply get them ignored by the guards. Should, they, however, mark a thief that is caught within 5 minutes, they are essentially refunded a mark, and are told so.

The flaws: Intricate and unneeded for such a simple problem.

[SOFWarrior]

Originally Posted by helldeath

well time to make a thief.. pointless to play anything else now .. free shit, low risk ... love it

Do that. Tell us how it works for you, and how rich you become.

[SOFWarrior]

Originally Posted by Cronnix

Still missing system to prevent someone from following me and spam attempting to steal even when I am watching him.. I dont want to be chased around town by thieves only because I cant do anything to prevent the crime

I agree - if you've got a guy targetted, he should not be able to snoop or steal from you.

[Electrum]

Originally Posted by iewcce

shouldnt be able to steal from someone who targeted u imo!

That is actually the perfect solution! Bravo!

[Darkelfv]

You guys don't remember the pack rats of 4 and 5 people following one guy for hours in town? Every one of them snooping the poor bastard, blocking him from moving, harassing him at the bank and at every point they can. Then when someone finally steals something the other 3 block and nothing can be done. A lot of these victims don't play anymore.

Targeting to prevent snooping would only work on a 1 v 1.

What is the problem with hidden criminal on snooping. Its simple. If you are too stupid to hide from the guy your snooping, you risk getting guard whacked. All of you promoting free snooping are just grievers and have no skill at being a thief. Snooping hidden criminal should have a low timer though maybe only 5 minutes then they go normal again. Stealing hidden criminal should only be 10-20 minutes now that they have the 2min item delay. Not this perma hidden crap.

I don't understand how such a simple solution can be so overlooked. I suppose the gang bang thief's want to be able to grief in town with out risk.

Also I am concerned at the lessened amounts. you could steal 300 stack in open beta. 400- 500 if you were really lucky. If they have lowered from there and added weight constrictions thief's are going to be having even a harder time making any money. Which will lead to pocket change and frustration which will lead to more grieving.

I say Harder to steal, more risk, with more reward. Let them take my 500 stack of coin or mats. If i catch them snooping or stealing, then i'm going to kill them. I do not see a downside to this.

Master skill thief's should have less tell messages. If your low int you might not even see a message. If your high int but the thief gets a good success he might only get a message like -Someone bumped into you.- -You notice something is missing-
Shit like that.

we really need horse thieves as well.

Support Skilled thieves - not grieving ones.

[deathshroud]

the success rate of a thief should increase with them wearing more than rags, also the thief should go local grey on a failed snoop

I play a thief and i didnt liek the system in beta was way to easy.

[Cronnix]

Well, revamped system or not, it will suck till they introduce a way to prevent the stealing in first place, gangs of several thieves harassing player (as in example above) which becomes more of robbing rather then stealing and any kind of penalty for the thief then just a run to the healer..

[Bataille]

I agree with those saying that thievery should be hard but worth the risk if you're skilled enough.

Small rewards and low risk = a lot of bad and annoying thieves.
Big rewards and high risk = a few skilled thieves that you hardly notice until all your stuff is gone. Still annoying but not like five naked morons following you around all day.

This game does not need more griefers. Tbh I think it's kinda weird that they're putting thievery back in right now, when what we badly need to keep players interested are fun non-PvP stuff to do and a more structured economic system. Giving even more tools to potential griefers is not the most brilliant strategy from that perspective. As it is, there is hardly any trade going on in the towns and with thievery back in there will be even less.

Don't get me wrong, I like the concept of thievery a lot. More content is always good ofc and it will probably balance out when more stuff is added. I just wonder about SV's content priorities sometimes.

[Hodo]

Originally Posted by Maerlyn

No. Most of the calcualtions that go into the system have been reworked.
The system itself was "good" during beta. But the balancing was terribly off.
This should work a lot better now.

Can the next patch be the ability to build a grinder or attractor at my house. So I dont have to go to town anymore now that the griefers have the ultimate broken tool?


This is the WRONG step to me.

Why the fuck couldnt they add butchery, or alchemy. Instead they add another broke assed mechanic that I have already thought of ways it can be broke and the patch hasnt even come out yet. Not to mention the 2 dozen ways it can be abused already.

Guess we are going back to the days of guilds locking down the bank, and library to keep griefers out.

41 days left SV. And you have a LONG way to go, and a short time to get there.

Ask Duplex/Nexeon what happens when you make patches that cater to the griefers... you end up with a ghost town for a game.

[Sebastian Persson]

Hi there folks!
Most parts of this thread is really good input, thou I would like you to make another thread in 1-2 days and explain how you feel about the system, after you have tried it too.
The thievery-balance will be changed based on thieves/non-thieves experience of the new calculations. It's real easy to just write numbers in code and think "Oh, ya this is awesome, I'm a coding/designer-GOD".

Now we need YOU to try it out and write down GOOD pointers on what we can change, please avoid "LOL! THIV3S ARE OP I HATE YOU SEB".
All we want is to make all of you happy! Like little care-bears, that's what we are, just want you to have fun and stay smiling!

In the words of Kim from the 1985 blockbuster 'The Care Bears Movie' think like this:
Kim:"You showed us how to share our feelings, and that's just what we're going to do."

[Scion of Amber]

And here was I foolishly hoping they'd at least fix up the inventory and vendor problems before bringing back thievery.

Having to spend three or four times as long repeating actions to get them to work is not good when trying to avoid thieves.

[Trox]

Its going to be even more interesting when you get all your stuff stolen while sitting at the spinning sword; or after you have logged out but your character is still in game. I've logged out a character on one of my accounts and logged into a character on my other account and saw the guy I just logged out still standing there for another 30 seconds.

[Daveraa]

What people seem to miss completely when talking about the return from thieving being small compared to slag hauling or mob farming is that thieving is a parasitic activity. Because there is no PvE thieving implemented all gains for a thief come at the expense of another player. That is a fundamental difference. Sure the same is true of PKers but PKing is restricted by guard zones, red flagging and stat loss.

Thieving however will be an activity that people can engage in all day long right in the centre of town. That one safe haven for players will suddenly become as harsh and unforgiving as the wilds (possibly more so in a way as there is so little you can do about it). Thieves by their very nature are going to be players who like to prey on other players, there is going to be no such thing as a nice player thief. They will harass and abuse the system as much as they can because that is the appeal of thieving.

This system doesn't sound like they have addressed any of the core issues regarding thieving. The very idea that you can stand around snooping in peoples packs all day and be caught repeatedly stealing goods (but not caught trying as apparently a failed steal means nothing) and yet not face any meaningful repercussions from the NPC authorities of the town is just bizarre.

[Katana622]

For everyone whining about thievery, I believe there will be way less thieves than in beta. There will be less people willing to spend a char slot with thievery.

You are also forgetting that int really matters against the success of the theft. Who has high int and stays in towns alot? Crafters! The very people who are mostly worried about this. Who has fast speed but low int? Fighters! The people capable of defending themselves.

Of course that isnt all black and white but you get the idea... I wouldn't mind thievery costing 4-500 points to "master" it instead of a skill people get for the lulz.

Also, read my signature, VIEW POST.



Its relevant.

edit: I don't understand why people get so pissed about snooping. It doesnt harm you in anyway. Sure, its annoying, but thats it. Deal with the annoying snooping. In the event that your silver pieces get stole, it isnt the end of the world! YES! That is right! There is things you can do to get your stuff back! Yes, I'm sorry, it does take a little bit of effort to do so, but refer to my signature.

Mortal Online isn't meant to be safe always. The safest place you will have now is in your house, with your buddies standing on your left and right. It will help raise the value of houses and player cities.

[Sampzky]

Originally Posted by R1ck

Stealing is a lot harder now than in comparison to beta. The ammount of items you try to steal (stack size) now adds to the risk/failure chance as well as the weight of course.

Cuprum coins ftw?

[Flintwick]

Nice additions/changes, although I stand by my suggestion to have a 10-20s hidden criminal flag on Snooping (duration based on snooping skill). This essentially means thieves cant be blatant with their snooping, as if someone spots them doing the snoop animation, they can hit them and get the guards. The duration is short enough however that if they are sneaky (in real terms), or quick, they can get away with the snoop by not being spotted, or by escaping if they are.

[Matari]

Originally Posted by Scabies

Hell yeah!
Its back again, lets see if its balanced enough...

If people can steal naked, its not balanced.

[Katana622]

Originally Posted by Flintwick

Nice additions/changes, although I stand by my suggestion to have a 10-20s hidden criminal flag on Snooping (duration based on snooping skill). This essentially means thieves cant be blatant with their snooping, as if someone spots them doing the snoop animation, they can hit them and get the guards. The duration is short enough however that if they are sneaky (in real terms), or quick, they can get away with the snoop by not being spotted, or by escaping if they are.

I actually wouldn't mind this IF and only IF:

The thievery animations didnt exist

OR

Many many non thievery related animations existed.

Please, most people with main thieves want to be sneaky. I think its the very thing that draws people to it (at least mains). But when you go in and but some artificial dumb looking animation we have no control over...being sneaky all goes out the window. At this point, being in your face and a blatant thief is the only thing that actually works.

I don't want to be an annoying griefer thief, I'd rather be a master thief who is rumored but never actually seen (like the thief storyline in oblivion ). That can't happen with the previous systems in game... I want thievery to require player skill and more in-game skills.

[Daveraa]

Another problem is that the thief system if it is going to be in should be linked directly with the proper guard system. Not this place holder call guards insta whack system.

I could get behind a thief system where thieves where playing in many ways against the town guards. Town guards on patrol would notice thieves snooping and intercede, Thieves who are caught by guard x number of times become known to them and are followed whenever a guard in that town spots them (forcing thieves to be sneaky), a prison system to lock up thieves (with a possibility of escape?).

Without the guard system, the NPC AI or any of the other complexities of towns the system is just a pale shadow of what it could be. It forces all players to deal with thieves and offers no sensible mitigation, back alleys are as safe as right outside the bank or at the crafting station or whatever.

[Trox]

Originally Posted by Katana622

I want thievery to require player skill and more in-game skills.

I think that is what everyone wants; unfortunately that is not what we are getting. Unless there is a lot more to this revamp than what they have said in the patch notes; we are getting the same old broken beta system just slightly modified to make it a little tougher on the thieves.

The griefer thieves will still be running around annoying everyone until people just say fuck it and log out. In the end that is the only real way to stop the thieves that just keep coming back and trying over and over and over again until their potential targets either have nothing left to steal or just log out.

Again unless they truly redid the thief system so that it takes player skill and stealth to do; this same old broken is just going to end up pissing off more people and causing them to leave than bring people in.

[timber66]

I hope the guard system works better now or this will be bad. Last night a grey walked through the middle of Meduli. about 5 people all shouted guards but nothing happened. A few tried again and still nothing, so I followed the guy spamming "Guards" and probably said it another 4 or 5 times over the course of 30 seconds, before he rode off out of the town limits ALIVE. if thieves can get away without the guards showing up then this will not be popular.

[Nehemia]

Originally Posted by timber66

I hope the guard system works better now or this will be bad. Last night a grey walked through the middle of Meduli. about 5 people all shouted guards but nothing happened. A few tried again and still nothing, so I followed the guy spamming "Guards" and probably said it another 4 or 5 times over the course of 30 seconds, before he rode off out of the town limits ALIVE. if thieves can get away without the guards showing up then this will not be popular.

They can still be manually killed, and so far, I've noticed you really need to be close for guards to come, in addition: the guards may attack something else. For example when I called guards for a red guy, first, some random pig was killed, then the red guys horse, then the red guy.

[Xoltor]

Originally Posted by Matari

If people can steal naked, its not balanced.

If u see a naked player, what will u think about him?

1. He could probably be a new player

2. He is a thief!

You will take more attention to him.
A clever thief will be dressed as the population around not to be detected.

Another reason why this game doesnt need player names showing above heads.
Its like an alarm signal for other players.

[Daveraa]

Originally Posted by Nehemia

They can still be manually killed

Good luck killing a thief in the middle of a crowd in under 2 mins without accidentally hitting a blue player and being guarded yourself.

[fariic]

Bunch of babies in MO.

The patch isn't even out and people are crying.

[Nehemia]

Originally Posted by Daveraa

Good luck killing a thief in the middle of a crowd in under 2 mins without accidentally hitting a blue player and being guarded yourself.

Dex-mage, 3x thunderslash = thief dead.

[Rhygar]

Originally Posted by Maerlyn

No. Most of the calcualtions that go into the system have been reworked.
The system itself was "good" during beta. But the balancing was terribly off.
This should work a lot better now.

There was very little good about the system other than the basic idea. Below is what I posted elsewhere.

There was no risk attached to thieving. What we had was a "naked-thief-dance" around every bank area again; where everyone knows he is a thief but unable to do anything to prevent it.

If thief just gets guarded again and again, losing nothing, until finally someone screws up then this system is just annoying. It is not immersive in any way.

Once guarded for being a thief you need to be flagged in that particular town for 24 hours or something. You also need to be able to 'catch' a thief trying to pickpocket you and guard him. In other words if you are looking a thief straight in the eye and see him doing his little sneak animation you should be able to guard him right there. Thieving only makes sense if I never even know who stole from me. The moment I know and I cannot stop him right there it is bullshit - EDIT without having to run after him and try to 'knock' him.

**please correct me if this is no longer the case as I haven't followed this particular topic that closely**

EDIT: Another penalty to add risk for thieves is to make them lose stats related to their thief skills. I.e. if you are a tard and get guarded constantly you won't be able to skill up. Only those that can get away with their crime without even being spotted should become highly skilled thieves and be able to steal more and more.

I don't know what you have to do to achieve this anonymity but you best start brain-storming.

[Matari]

Originally Posted by Xoltor

If u see a naked player, what will u think about him?

1. He could probably be a new player

2. He is a thief!

You will take more attention to him.
A clever thief will be dressed as the population around not to be detected.

Another reason why this game doesnt need player names showing above heads.
Its like an alarm signal for other players.

The problem is not that I can identify him. The problem is he doesn't give a shit if I do so or not since he won't lose anything either way. The priest is a 20 second run from the bank in most cities.

[Rhygar]

Originally Posted by Daveraa

Good luck killing a thief in the middle of a crowd in under 2 mins without accidentally hitting a blue player and being guarded yourself.

Exactly. Risk free thieving with both an irritating interruption to yourself and potentially fatal consequence. Law of averages says that eventually someone will screw up, and pay a significant penalty, just trying to see justice done. The times justice is done, the thief just laughs and tries again.

[Nehemia]

24 hour flag is a bit too much, unless you are talking about a flag that's timer also goes down in offline mode. As long as thievery is dependant on dize rolls, such major penalties should not be addressed. Having the character flagged grey with 5% stat loss for 30 minutes would suffice now.

[Rhygar]

Originally Posted by Nehemia

24 hour flag is a bit too much, unless you are talking about a flag that's timer also goes down in offline mode. As long as thievery is dependant on dize rolls, such major penalties should not be addressed. Having the character flagged grey with 5% stat loss for 30 minutes would suffice now.

Sure, it should definitely be offline as well. I am generally in favour of all timers (murder counts or what have you) being both online and offline because the point of the timer is 'protect' others from you repeating your action within a certain time frame so as to give a semblance of sanity to proceedings.

The effectiveness of only-online timers is necessarily heavily dependent on the perpetrators time investment and makes it impossible to give a balanced penalty. The penalty could last 2 days or 2 weeks from the victim's perspective (which is why there is a timer in the first place!) depending on how often the perpetrator plays.

Obviously in this scenario the murder count timers need to be increased significantly.

[Rhygar]

Originally Posted by Daveraa

I could get behind a thief system where thieves where playing in many ways against the town guards. Town guards on patrol would notice thieves snooping and intercede, Thieves who are caught by guard x number of times become known to them and are followed whenever a guard in that town spots them (forcing thieves to be sneaky), a prison system to lock up thieves (with a possibility of escape?).

Also good this but they can change a lot of basics to make the system sensible until we get mobile guards, which might be a long way off.

[Cronnix]

To be honest I though SV would know better then introducing same old system back but with new calculations..

[Cheith]

Originally Posted by Sampzky

Cuprum coins ftw?

This Always carry full stacks!
Cheers,
C.

[Bennet]

Originally Posted by Mycke

What if they added 'thieves tools' that cost say 10 silver and needed to be equiped to do thieving (they wouldn't show when anyone was looking at them).
This way they would have to risk 'something' and there would no longer be any reason for people to complain...

That is a very good idea IMO.

Originally Posted by Darkelfv

Support Skilled thieves - not grieving ones.

Amen bro.

[Nehemia]

Originally Posted by Bennet

That is a very good idea IMO.

I tried to suggest something like that, but the idea was crushed due to "immersion reasons."

[Red Jack]

Originally Posted by fariic

Bunch of babies in MO.

The patch isn't even out and people are crying.

so, standard "mo" for MO