The Thievery-system has been revamped and is now activated again.

R1ck · 23rd July 2010, 04:04

Found in patch Notes v.1.19.35.49 (2010-07-23):

- The Thievery-system has been revamped and is now activated again.
Stealing is a lot harder now than in comparison to beta. The ammount of items you try to steal (stack size) now adds to the risk/failure chance as well as the weight of course. The weight penalty has also been increased.
Your targets INT-value now also plays a large role in the success of your theft (targets INT high = greater chance of being detected).
With the new system a new flag for stolen items is being introduced. All stolen items are flagged as stolen [s] for 2 minutes. A stolen item can't be traded, sold, banked or destroyed.
If the thief DIES with a stolen item in his inventory this item will be marked as [s] for stolen, picking up stolen items will flag you grey and the 2min timer will reset.
If the rightful owner picks up the item he/she will not see the stolen [s] flag and thus will not be flagged for retrieving his property.

Discuss.

Mark · 23rd July 2010, 04:06

Make a poll,
1.Yay!
2.Gay!

Scabies · 23rd July 2010, 04:06

Hell yeah!
Its back again, lets see if its balanced enough...

Spadar · 23rd July 2010, 04:18

I still think we should be able to punch them in the face without guard intervention if we catch them snooping in our pockets...

SOFWarrior · 23rd July 2010, 04:21

I'm glad for the thieves.

I just hope it's better balanced than it was in beta.

Electrum · 23rd July 2010, 04:23

Sounds like they only provided a small fix for the problems rather than actually changed the system.

Narrat · 23rd July 2010, 04:26

Let the whining begin!

Maerlyn · 23rd July 2010, 04:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Electrum

Sounds like they only provided a small fix for the problems rather than actually changed the system.

No. Most of the calcualtions that go into the system have been reworked.
The system itself was "good" during beta. But the balancing was terribly off.
This should work a lot better now.

Electrum · 23rd July 2010, 04:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maerlyn

No. Most of the calcualtions that go into the system have been reworked.
The system itself was "good" during beta. But the balancing was terribly off.
This should work a lot better now.

Could you go into more detail? I was left unfulfilled by the patch notes.

Darkelfv · 23rd July 2010, 04:33

I don't see how you say the system was good in beta. The main issue with thievery was not the actually taking of items but the fact that people could spam snoop you all day.

This harassment is why I hated the thief system. Hidden criminal on snooping is very much needed.

While i think your new system should work fine, if you don't address snooping soon I think we are in for another shit storm of gang banging thieves that follow you around until they get something or you log out.

Its as bad as the horse up your ass, you can't even swing with out hitting it. Except this is in town and there is nothing you can do about it. Usually more then 1 on your ass too. Soon as they think you have something every thief will be following you around for hours.

Risk for snooping is required.

Jabronie · 23rd July 2010, 04:38

Awesome back to spending all my time in the city with my back to the wall; Can't wait to see what happens to people making / selling goods. The system sucks with out the 'real' guard system in place. They did not revamp much from a conceptual standpoint, just moved some decimals around and a banking timer, which is a start - but again with out the city guards working as visioned...I'unno, guess we'll see.

Narrat · 23rd July 2010, 04:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jabronie

Awesome back to spending all my time in the city with my back to the wall; Can't wait to see what happens to people making / selling goods. The system sucks with out the 'real' guard system in place. They did not revamp anything from a conceptual standpoint, just moved some decimals around.

Heads up: no one's buying/selling goods anyway.

Though I do agree that bad things shouldn't happen to your avatar while playing a video game.

Jabronie · 23rd July 2010, 04:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Narrat

Heads up: no one's buying/selling goods anyway

Heads up; Thievery won't make it any better.

Narrat · 23rd July 2010, 04:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jabronie

Heads up; Thievery won't make it any better.

Don't care, I just want your stuff.

metavision · 23rd July 2010, 04:49

Awesome news..

Kuroi · 23rd July 2010, 04:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maerlyn

No. Most of the calcualtions that go into the system have been reworked.
The system itself was "good" during beta. But the balancing was terribly off.
This should work a lot better now.

the last time it was active there was a very little % to steal something with 2 or maybe even less weight (200 coins, 200 leathers etc.), they made it even worst?

Jabronie · 23rd July 2010, 04:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Narrat

Don't care, I just want your stuff.

Only lost a couple random items in beta to thieves, not overly worried about it personally. Cities are going to be a shit haven at night, people that did not spend time in beta developing behaviors in cities that protect them from thieves are likely going to get frustrated.

Given the current systems in place, I just don't see this jiving well. Personal opionion, have fun spaming snoop pretending to be a little mid evil chav.

helldeath · 23rd July 2010, 04:52

well time to make a thief.. pointless to play anything else now .. free shit, low risk ... love it

Narrat · 23rd July 2010, 04:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by helldeath

well time to make a thief.. pointless to play anything else now .. free shit, low risk ... love it

I'd recommend this to anyone. You'll inevitably realize that thieving is one of the lowest-income professions out there... trust me.

Mycke · 23rd July 2010, 04:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Narrat

Let the whining begin!

This!

Jabronie · 23rd July 2010, 04:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Narrat

I'd recommend this to anyone. You'll inevitably realize that thieving is one of the lowest-income professions out there... trust me.

The rewards from being a thief rarely blossom from monetary gain, it's all about being a pain in the ass. I bet ass-hatery in cities goes up ten fold at night; You think people log now when it gets dark...

helldeath · 23rd July 2010, 05:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mycke

This!

Hey not whining I been waiting for my free shit!!!!!!

Electrum · 23rd July 2010, 05:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Narrat

I'd recommend this to anyone. You'll inevitably realize that thieving is one of the lowest-income professions out there... trust me.

It depend how you play a thief. If you play smart, without trying to sound cocky, you can actually make a decent amount of money (note that this is before it was removed). You need to plan your thefts and watch your targets. From stealing from those buying armor and weapons to stealing from those who are farming and taking their money just after they sell.

That all said, you would make more (most of the time) by actually farming. That said, stealing is much or more fun, at least for me, and less mind numbing.

Trox · 23rd July 2010, 05:24

If the thieves can stand around you naked and snoop all day without repercussions then we are back to the same bull shit system that was in beta. The few items I lost to thieves in beta wasn't because I wasn't paying attention; it was because the thieving system itself is a complete and utter failure. When you can sit their and stare the thief right in the face and he can still grab your stuff and get away; because his run speed is going to be faster than anyone else, the system is a failure.

If the whole "revamp" is nothing more than making it a bit easier to fail and the thief having to run around for an extra 2 minutes on a success, then chances are SV is going to be losing a lot of subs with this....my 2 included.

Narrat · 23rd July 2010, 05:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Electrum

It depend how you play a thief. If you play smart, without trying to sound cocky, you can actually make a decent amount of money (note that this is before it was removed). You need to plan your thefts and watch your targets. From stealing from those buying armor and weapons to stealing from those who are farming and taking their money just after they sell.

T

That's weird actually... I played a thief throughout beta, and in my experience the opposite was true... I played a 'smart' thief (obviously up for debate, but I can assure you I was at least more subtle than the majority of the thieves), and I always made less than when I'd try my hand at bank-camping and clusterfucking (perhaps there's better terms for these techniques?). I mean, significantly less. Neither way matched wisent farming , but the asshole griefer technique got closer than the subtle.

I just played the subtle game because it was more fun... I don't know about the stat changes (I'll have to check it out for a bit), but at least insta-banking is no longer viable... nor is item deletion, so that alone could take a chunk of the annoyance out. I was hoping they'd take names out of the snoop/pilfer messages (so it'd say "someone is snooping"), but we'll see how it plays out.

edit: And to the snoop whiners: snooping doesn't hurt you. It just makes you feel uncomfortable; deal with it.

helldeath · 23rd July 2010, 05:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trox

If the thieves can stand around you naked and snoop all day without repercussions then we are back to the same bull shit system that was in beta. The few items I lost to thieves in beta wasn't because I wasn't paying attention; it was because the thieving system itself is a complete and utter failure. When you can sit their and stare the thief right in the face and he can still grab your stuff and get away; because his run speed is going to be faster than anyone else, the system is a failure.

If the whole "revamp" is nothing more than making it a bit easier to fail and the thief having to run around for an extra 2 minutes on a success, then chances are SV is going to be losing a lot of subs with this....my 2 included.

Damn their goes more of my free shit !!!! In all honestly I concur with this a person who steals from you can be naked, steal run.. The risk for them nothing.... The risk for the honest players alot.. Same shit as pks nowadays a fast paced skill gain and shitty statloss program equals nothing but a game full of pks and thieves.. once you lose the actual honest rpger playbase you lose this game.

Pking and thievery should be a major disadvantage and not a legitamite playstyle. Both should be equal to reward vs rish..

Thieves are this naked pain in the ass to legite people - thieves looking for free stuff being naked they have nothing to risk but time.

Pks - almost lower then thieves they get the advantage and jump with gank squads, blue helper looters, and a stat and skill system that is fast as hell to offset their minor 10 percent statloss.

I imagine the stolen goods -s- tag on goods wil go to pks loot as well ? so if traded to a blue player they are fair game???

SV needs to add a block to thieves .. trapped bags ala ultima online. perhaps, or give us some defense against them.

Narrat · 23rd July 2010, 05:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by helldeath

Damn their goes more of my free shit !!!! In all honestly I concur with this a person who steals from you can be naked, steal run.. The risk for them nothing.... The risk for the honest players alot.. Same shit as pks nowadays a fast paced skill gain and shitty statloss program equals nothing but a game full of pks and thieves.. once you lose the actual honest rpger playbase you lose this game.

Pking and thievery should be a major disadvantage and not a legitamite playstyle. Both should be equal to reward vs rish..

Thieves are this naked pain in the ass to legite people - thieves looking for free stuff being naked they have nothing to risk but time.

Pks - almost lower then thieves they get the advantage and jump with gank squads, blue helper looters, and a stat and skill system that is fast as hell to offset their minor 10 percent statloss.

I imagine the stolen goods -s- tag on goods wil go to pks loot as well ? so if traded to a blue player they are fair game???

SV needs to add a block to thieves .. trapped bags ala ultima online. perhaps, or give us some defense against them.

Sarcasm is best in small doses. I'm sorry that you object to the lack of risk that you see in thieving.

dkbat6 · 23rd July 2010, 06:00

There is a defense: be aware and get Int

helldeath · 23rd July 2010, 06:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Narrat

Sarcasm is best in small doses. I'm sorry that you object to the lack of risk that you see in thieving.

by all means post the risk of a naked thieving person I am all ears

Narrat · 23rd July 2010, 06:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by helldeath

by all means post the risk of a naked thieving person I am all ears

as soon as you post the risks of a naked harvester, tamer, or pk'er.

helldeath · 23rd July 2010, 06:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Narrat

as soon as you post the risks of a naked harvester, tamer, or pk'er.

Harvestor- pickaxes durability, skill, time on what they lose, and the ocassional get killed while refining someplace.

Pker- statloss, a small loss if killed

Tamer - not sure but never played one, heard that pkers get them and kill them constantly, but yes tamers may need some sort of a risk to tame.

now yours?

Narrat · 23rd July 2010, 06:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by helldeath

Harvestor- pickaxes durability, skill, time on what they lose, and the ocassional get killed while refining someplace.

Pker- statloss, a small loss if killed

Tamer - not sure but never played one, heard that pkers get them and kill them constantly, but yes tamers may need some sort of a risk to tame.

now yours?

Harvesters risk their time; so do thieves. A stupid thief is more likely to come away with nothing than a stupid harvester, since the harvester has nodes guaranteed to give out a least some resources; thieves have no such guarantee.

PK'er: I agree there should be some thief count similar to murder count; that's a suggestion, not a basis for epic QQ.

Tamer - they risk nothing except what they optionally bring with them to do their job better.

... as do thieves. Not all thieves are naked; now that the free-to-play crowd is out, and thieves can't sit at the bank all day, thieves WILL be carrying stuff on them to better do their jobs. Trust me; as a thief, I always had at least 20 silver worth of stuff on me... much more than any harvester with his infinite axes or tamer with infinite rags.

Electrum · 23rd July 2010, 07:04

Woodcutting yields enough money, when wood is sold, to yield more than 10 axes for the one used. In addition, axes don't drop when you die.

Regardless, this is all an invalid argument.

Mycke · 23rd July 2010, 07:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Narrat

Harvesters risk their time; so do thieves. A stupid thief is more likely to come away with nothing than a stupid harvester, since the harvester has nodes guaranteed to give out a least some resources; thieves have no such guarantee.

PK'er: I agree there should be some thief count similar to murder count; that's a suggestion, not a basis for epic QQ.

Tamer - they risk nothing except what they optionally bring with them to do their job better.

... as do thieves. Not all thieves are naked; now that the free-to-play crowd is out, and thieves can't sit at the bank all day, thieves WILL be carrying stuff on them to better do their jobs. Trust me; as a thief, I always had at least 20 silver worth of stuff on me... much more than any harvester with his infinite axes or tamer with infinite rags.

Though I have to admit I don't see what a thief would need to risk to do their thing, you may have accidently stumbled on something there.

What if they added 'thieves tools' that cost say 10 silver and needed to be equiped to do thieving (they wouldn't show when anyone was looking at them).

This way they would have to risk 'something' and there would no longer be any reason for people to complain...

Narrat · 23rd July 2010, 07:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mycke

Though I have to admit I don't see what a thief would need to risk to do their thing, you may have accidently stumbled on something there.

What if they added 'thieves tools' that cost say 10 silver and needed to be equiped to do thieving (they wouldn't show when anyone was looking at them).

This way they would have to risk 'something' and there would no longer be any reason for people to complain...

Well, I don't wanna give away too many of my techniques, but for one, all good thieves are wearing something other than rags. Personally, I took great pride in choosing just the right disguise for the right town and tactic... and besides, I always had some silver on me to entice any other thieves to try and take it... I clear the field a bit, and maintain my reputation as an upstanding citizen.

Anyway, I'd also like to see thieving tools implemented, though I'm not sure about making them necessary. I mean, everyone starts with a sword which can (in theory) be used to kill people, it would seem arbitrary to have thievery have requirements similar to magery... I mean, pickpocketing IS the 'guttersnipe' profession, it makes sense that the poorest of the poor can get into it.

There's a whole spectrum of variables that thieving tools could aid, which would make them appealing to thieves. Besides, even thieves want toys to play with

Trox · 23rd July 2010, 07:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mycke

Though I have to admit I don't see what a thief would need to risk to do their thing, you may have accidently stumbled on something there.

What if they added 'thieves tools' that cost say 10 silver and needed to be equiped to do thieving (they wouldn't show when anyone was looking at them).

This way they would have to risk 'something' and there would no longer be any reason for people to complain...

That and make it so that you are staring them right in the face because you already busted them snooping they can't steal nothing.

Also need to make it so that if they get busted snooping/stealing from you they can't come right back to you a few minutes later to try again. Make it so they have at least a 5 hour timer before they can steal from someone that had just busted them.

Hypex · 23rd July 2010, 07:33

You should get a debuf if you die after being flagged. -10% thiefing skill for 10 hours. Also some sort of money sink should apply for a failed steal.

Pancake Effct · 23rd July 2010, 07:35

Still no risk... Thieves need tools or something.

"Risk for snooping is required." Agreed. If I have money in a bag inside my pants next to my balls, and a thief is snooping it. I'm going to kill him.

Electrum · 23rd July 2010, 07:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by killing karma

Still no risk... Thieves need tools or something.

"Risk for snooping is required." Agreed. If I have money in a bag inside my pants next to my balls, and a thief is snooping it. I'm going to kill him.

You are welcome to kill them, but you will go to jail, or in the sense of the game, you will get the guards called on you. The point remains, until something is stolen, nothing illegal has been done.

If you are being snooped, and you know it, turn to who is doing it and wait for them to steal something. Then hit them and call the guards. Anyone who attempts to steal what was taken from you will also turn gray and can be killed by the guards. In short, having poor thieves can make YOU money. People will turn gray and you can get their loot as well as yours back.

Narrat · 23rd July 2010, 07:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Electrum

You are welcome to kill them, but you will go to jail, or in the sense of the game, you will get the guards called on you.

you can kill anyone who has even attempted to steal something. The guards kill THEM.

23rd July 2010, 04:04	#1 (permalink)
R1ck Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 750 Rep Power: 3	The Thievery-system has been revamped and is now activated again. Found in patch Notes v.1.19.35.49 (2010-07-23): - The Thievery-system has been revamped and is now activated again. Stealing is a lot harder now than in comparison to beta. The ammount of items you try to steal (stack size) now adds to the risk/failure chance as well as the weight of course. The weight penalty has also been increased. Your targets INT-value now also plays a large role in the success of your theft (targets INT high = greater chance of being detected). With the new system a new flag for stolen items is being introduced. All stolen items are flagged as stolen [s] for 2 minutes. A stolen item can't be traded, sold, banked or destroyed. If the thief DIES with a stolen item in his inventory this item will be marked as [s] for stolen, picking up stolen items will flag you grey and the 2min timer will reset. If the rightful owner picks up the item he/she will not see the stolen [s] flag and thus will not be flagged for retrieving his property. Discuss.

23rd July 2010, 04:06	#3 (permalink)
Scabies Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 137 Rep Power: 3	Hell yeah! Its back again, lets see if its balanced enough... __________________ The sky turns black, the wolves are coming!

23rd July 2010, 04:33	#10 (permalink)
Darkelfv Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 416 Rep Power: 3	I don't see how you say the system was good in beta. The main issue with thievery was not the actually taking of items but the fact that people could spam snoop you all day. This harassment is why I hated the thief system. Hidden criminal on snooping is very much needed. While i think your new system should work fine, if you don't address snooping soon I think we are in for another shit storm of gang banging thieves that follow you around until they get something or you log out. Its as bad as the horse up your ass, you can't even swing with out hitting it. Except this is in town and there is nothing you can do about it. Usually more then 1 on your ass too. Soon as they think you have something every thief will be following you around for hours. Risk for snooping is required. __________________ -- Ninja Turtle Assassins -- )-> \../ --\|- ./`-* -Add Armor lore for "reptile carapace", poisoned daggers -Add more blunt dmg to 2h and 1h handles irw st etc.. -Add the weapon head that is in the back of Vadda. -Nun chucks and flail weapons. Cat o Nine !!!!

23rd July 2010, 04:38	#11 (permalink)
Jabronie Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 476 Rep Power: 0	Awesome back to spending all my time in the city with my back to the wall; Can't wait to see what happens to people making / selling goods. The system sucks with out the 'real' guard system in place. They did not revamp much from a conceptual standpoint, just moved some decimals around and a banking timer, which is a start - but again with out the city guards working as visioned...I'unno, guess we'll see. __________________ Last edited by Jabronie : 23rd July 2010 at 04:42.

23rd July 2010, 04:49	#15 (permalink)
metavision Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: U.S. Age: 42 Posts: 2,604 Rep Power: 0	Awesome news.. __________________ ~metavision~ thinking beyond normal means

23rd July 2010, 04:06	#2 (permalink)
Mark Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 330 Rep Power: 0	Make a poll, 1.Yay! 2.Gay!

23rd July 2010, 04:18	#4 (permalink)
Spadar Junior Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 161 Rep Power: 3	I still think we should be able to punch them in the face without guard intervention if we catch them snooping in our pockets...

23rd July 2010, 04:21	#5 (permalink)
SOFWarrior Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 894 Rep Power: 3	I'm glad for the thieves. I just hope it's better balanced than it was in beta.

23rd July 2010, 04:23	#6 (permalink)
Electrum Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 1,417 Rep Power: 2	Sounds like they only provided a small fix for the problems rather than actually changed the system.

23rd July 2010, 04:52	#18 (permalink)
helldeath Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 117 Rep Power: 0	well time to make a thief.. pointless to play anything else now .. free shit, low risk ... love it

23rd July 2010, 05:24	#24 (permalink)
Trox Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 127 Rep Power: 0	If the thieves can stand around you naked and snoop all day without repercussions then we are back to the same bull shit system that was in beta. The few items I lost to thieves in beta wasn't because I wasn't paying attention; it was because the thieving system itself is a complete and utter failure. When you can sit their and stare the thief right in the face and he can still grab your stuff and get away; because his run speed is going to be faster than anyone else, the system is a failure. If the whole "revamp" is nothing more than making it a bit easier to fail and the thief having to run around for an extra 2 minutes on a success, then chances are SV is going to be losing a lot of subs with this....my 2 included.

23rd July 2010, 06:00	#28 (permalink)
dkbat6 Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 103 Rep Power: 0	There is a defense: be aware and get Int

23rd July 2010, 07:04	#33 (permalink)
Electrum Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 1,417 Rep Power: 2	Woodcutting yields enough money, when wood is sold, to yield more than 10 axes for the one used. In addition, axes don't drop when you die. Regardless, this is all an invalid argument.

23rd July 2010, 07:33	#37 (permalink)
Hypex Newbie Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 43 Rep Power: 0	You should get a debuf if you die after being flagged. -10% thiefing skill for 10 hours. Also some sort of money sink should apply for a failed steal.

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