Guild Tags and Tabards

[Necromantic]

So in the future we will see toggle-able Guild Tags to identify your guild affiliation and shortly after that Banners and Tabards are supposed to get in game. See Under Development.

What do you guys think? Do you really want the Guild Tags while Tabards could be sufficient to identify guilds and in addition bring more fun game play possibilities.

As I see it the two options are:

Guild Tags and Tabards:
Tabards will be degraded to something to show off with and no functionality as nobody will really identify a guild by it as everyone will see the definite, secure and less fun method of seeing your guild tag. RP guilds will still want to identify by tabards alone but even they will be forced to use the guilds tags at some point.

No Guild Tags and only Tabards:
Tabards will be used as a cool thing to show off and as guild identification. It won't be as definite and secure as guild tags as people could steal them or take them after they kill you but it also enables possible gameplay scenarios. Someone who is not in your guild taking your tabard and identifying as one of yours can be a threat to your guild but it also opens the door to a lot of fun and "political" actions.

Some people would call the guild tags solution "carebear", I just think it's sad to add options and at the same time take away possibilities. A Sandbox is not about the tools you have but what you can do with them and what they add to the game. The freedom of their use over the definite systems.
Of course you can argue that you can turn the guild tags off, which some people will do, but people will still demand you to show them your tag for the security of the feature.
Do you want fun or do you want security in this Player-Driven, Full Loot, and full PvP Roleplaying game?

So vote away and feel free to provide your opinion in written form.

[Riondil]

Don't forget that "bragging" or "fear/protective producing" (whatever sort of direction your guild goes) factor some guilds like (not meant negative by any means). Guild flags alone don't give away the name of this player group.

Other then that, allied (and enemy) guilds recognize each other by such a tag and I also would like to know which guild I'm dealing with. Yes, I agree it kills some immersion, but for organisational reasons and to keep an overview I'm totally pro guild tags (but hey, just me).

[metavision]

If you are part of a faction, then it should be shown to others. Though, I believe that for every pro, there is a con. I think there should be an in-game skill called politics, that allows others to see those faction affiliations.



{edit}
Also, a big part of the socialization and immersion is lost without character names. When you target someone, their name should remain present (given los). Because when targeting several people, you don't see all their names TOGETHER, so mentally groups don't exist.


I think when in towns, once you target someone, until they leave your radius, their names should remain.

[Turkis]

Why make an ingame skill.

If you are politically savy and pay attention/keep lists you know who is in what guild. Making skills for things that we can do ourselves is pointless and detracts from player skill.

As for "we should be able to see factions". Explain to me why please? What is realistic, immersive, or logical about being able to tell who is in what guild by sight? Unless you know somone, it's just plain silly to recognize somones affiliations by sight.

People should be recognized by who they affiliate with. IE. if I see a player chattin it up with a group of reds that typically kill people on sight, I have a pretty good reason to be suspicious of this player.

Adding automatic guild tags (or toggleable to a lesser degree) removes intrigue from the game as it becomes quite clear who you are associated with.

EDIT:

As for names, why should you simply have bubbles over somones head for targeting them? Target somone, see what they look like and their name and remember it. What you are asking for is the game to do things for you that you are perfectly capable of doing yourself.

[BasilTeshi]

I am assuming the possibility of guild tags will be needed with the fact that there will be limitations, or set number of choices of what to place on a tabard.

Like when making a shield, the deco choices.

I could be wrong, but if they are limited to the number of armors they can have at one time without causing issues, do you not think having infinite different tabards could also do this? (Again, I hope I am wrong in this in that there would be no issues into coding the customization)

[Andi89]

Accidentially voted 1, wanted 2.
I think it would be better to have only tabards because that would enable a way of having spies in enemy guilds without 2nd acc (or at least char)... A whole new business

[ForsakenRankor]

I like the tabards idea as I think spying needs to a part of the game just like thievery. Also, I do not believe that a "political" skill is needed, but maybe a new primary skill of "spying", with a secondary skill of "observation" that allows you to see details of a char. (i.e. Close-up view of facial details like tats, type of armor, type kf weapon) in order to gather intel on a char. Guild tags NEED to have the toggle switch. I should not know a characters name just by targeting them.....only if they are wearing a name tag.

[Paratus]

Originally Posted by BasilTeshi

I am assuming the possibility of guild tags will be needed with the fact that there will be limitations, or set number of choices of what to place on a tabard.

Like when making a shield, the deco choices.

This.

[Maerlyn]

Originally Posted by BasilTeshi

I am assuming the possibility of guild tags will be needed with the fact that there will be limitations, or set number of choices of what to place on a tabard.

Like when making a shield, the deco choices.

I could be wrong, but if they are limited to the number of armors they can have at one time without causing issues, do you not think having infinite different tabards could also do this? (Again, I hope I am wrong in this in that there would be no issues into coding the customization)

That is precicely it.
You will have a selection of designs and colours to combine your tabard/banner from but unless we can give guilds the option to come up with their own designs (upload and integrate in the game) toggleable guild tags are needed.

[Airfell]

Originally Posted by Maerlyn

That is precicely it.
You will have a selection of designs and colours to combine your tabard/banner from but unless we can give guilds the option to come up with their own designs (upload and integrate in the game) toggleable guild tags are needed.

^nice!

[zpullin]

Guild tags are a terrible idea.

[Rathius]

What is it with people and making polls, can't phrase anything neutrally anymore... Is it so hard to put A, B, Both, Other. Or a combination of options without feeding words into their mouths?

I would -prefer- tabards only, it has nothing to do with this 'freedom' however. Also, if we have tags as well, oh well, I won't really care, we already see everyone's names and flags.

Also, what is it with people assuming, and stating as fact, exactly how the system will work? Toggle could very well mean the individual player toggles to put it above -their- name. It could mean they toggle everyone else, or individuals, or any combination of toggles... It's like complaining about a feature you only know of one incarnation and dislike it because you think it will be EXACTLY like what you hate, without the possibility for change.

[Paratus]

Originally Posted by zpullin

Guild tags are a terrible idea.

I don't see why? Especially if the toggle is on your own character only.

I think guild tags and tabards together would be great.

If I were a newbie sitting in town, and I saw a bunch of people with the tag OL on their names, wearing the same tabard, I'd get a feel for who that guild is and their reputation grows. If there were three guilds there, who all happened to design the same tabard (OP tabard) then you'd lose that identity.

There will be multiple guilds with similar, if not exact, tabards.

[Katana622]

Originally Posted by Paratus

I don't see why? Especially if the toggle is on your own character only.

I think guild tags and tabards together would be great.

If I were a newbie sitting in town, and I saw a bunch of people with the tag OL on their names, wearing the same tabard, I'd get a feel for who that guild is and their reputation grows. If there were three guilds there, who all happened to design the same tabard (OP tabard) then you'd lose that identity.

There will be multiple guilds with similar, if not exact, tabards.

Then this should be the focus fix for this feature, no? Look at APB logo editor thing. Yea i know its super advanced but even taking half of that into mo would be great.

Being able to add even just 2 symbols and 2 colors could make for many unique designs. I think mortal's however will probably be pretty much like WoWs where you get 1 symbol you can color, and one background color.

[Hypex]

Originally Posted by zpullin

Guild tags are a terrible idea.

Place some effort into your response . If you think it's a terrible idea at least say why.

[PopeUrban]

I'm thrilled with both actually. The key word with the tags is togglable. I can only hope the tabbards are lootable. The local spy den approves.

And hell, you want more options? How about a primary subterfuge tree with a counter Investigation tree to allow falsification of guild tags, provided you're willing to take the points out of something else.

The Intelligence/counterintelligence community needs some mechanics too.

[Artorius]

Hm, bad poll choices. I voted for #1 but I actually want both, guild tags when targeted and guild tabards/banners, etc.

Btw, since SV will make guild tags toggleable, it will be completely utterly useless just like the mutual war dec system.

Let's see why;

Why do we need guild identification ?

1-To be accountable for our bad deeds.

2-For glory.

3-For fun.

I think we can all agree the most important one is the #1. Well, forget about it, everyone will turn it off when they commit bad actions... Awesome

As for tabards and such.

I sincerely hope SV got the common sense to make it impossible to copy the logo of another guild for very obvious reasons I'm not going to go through but somehow I'm afraid they don't judging by how they implemented guild wars and guild tags...

Oh well, atleast war dec should be 1 sided soon. Let's hope it's wisely done.

Originally Posted by Andi89

Accidentially voted 1, wanted 2.
I think it would be better to have only tabards because that would enable a way of having spies in enemy guilds without 2nd acc (or at least char)... A whole new business

Are you not playing this game ? Guild members have different flags already. It is possible to spy on other guilds but not the way your talking about.

[deathshroud]

chances are the guild tab will need to be changed at the guild stone, also i would say

1. to gain notoriety and fame through your guilds actions

[princereaper]

I think that if you choose to be in a guild then people should know what guild you are from at all timess that is the risk of being in a faction.

But i can see people who are not in guilds being hunted down due to the risk being lower.

so i can see why it should be optional in a way but i still think it affect people who are not in guilds and eventully being in a guild is a must.

To be honest i think guild tabards should be the only thing and having the option to craft "guild tags" on your armour.

[Riondil]

Originally Posted by Rathius

What is it with people and making polls, can't phrase anything neutrally anymore...

That's exactly what I was thinking. The poll is not really neutrale phrased - this however though yes is difficult, if you as OP favor one direction to begin with

[Rathius]

Originally Posted by Riondil

That's exactly what I was thinking. The poll is not really neutrale phrased - this however though yes is difficult, if you as OP favor one direction to begin with

Guild Tag Only
Guild Tabard Only
Both Available
Neither Available
Other (Please explain...)

*shrugs*

[Zeeraha]

Guild tags will be toggable, so it can temprorary replace missing custom tabbard design until full tabard fuctionality is enabled.

I greet both tabbards and guild tags

[SidCity]

Sure hope there's a wolf symbol

[Jade]

Be good if you could upload your own tabard and then have it approved by the community manager.

[Norelion]

Originally Posted by Jade

Be good if you could upload your own tabard and then have it approved by the community manager.

This should come later, as far as I got it. The system for this needs to be done, and I guess it will come only with the overhauled armour-system.

[Trixxer]

I need to see how the guild tags look like before I can say if I like the idea or not.

[Jade]

Something like this

[Trixxer]

Originally Posted by Jade

Something like this

So guild tags will be on for example shields? If that is the case then I am totally for it. Guild tabards will also be a good addition.

[Artorius]

Originally Posted by Jade

Something like this

M&B is awesome and yes, that would be cool but I would also like actual tabards for both, players and horses for those of us not using shields since they're not as useful as they are in M&B...

[Jade]

In M&B you also have armour that shows tabards, that would be awesome.

Shields, certain armours, tabards.

Only question is, would you want guild tabards to be lootable?
I can imagine now the griefers, and also PK's running around in someone elses tabards causing havok killing people, griefing etc thus giving the victim guild a bad name.

[princereaper]

that would be so great if it was like m&b lol.

[Leukos]

i like it better the way we have it now. You have to learn your enemies' names in order to know who you are fighting. This makes for a much more personal experience; its not "whaaa i was killed by wessex" its "whaaa i was killed by jade." If you have experience with jade and know he is in wessex then good on ya; take some political action, qq on the wessex forums, etc. Otherwise go your own way.

Over time you will learn who's who instead of just relying on reading tags and never actually having to know the players behind them.

[metavision]

It seems a good many of you never played DAOC...

[Rathius]

Originally Posted by Leukos

i like it better the way we have it now. You have to learn your enemies' names in order to know who you are fighting. This makes for a much more personal experience; its not "whaaa i was killed by wessex" its "whaaa i was killed by jade." If you have experience with jade and know he is in wessex then good on ya; take some political action, qq on the wessex forums, etc. Otherwise go your own way.

Over time you will learn who's who instead of just relying on reading tags and never actually having to know the players behind them.

There's a problem with this sort of logic, and a lot of people just jump right over the issue with it.

Learn your enemies names? Really... it's okay to magically know everyone's name, but is damn near an affront to the game to see the guild affiliation as well? How about we keep the game, in game, instead of having people jump to the forums or irc in order to find out anyways?

[zpullin]

Originally Posted by Paratus

I don't see why? Especially if the toggle is on your own character only.

I think guild tags and tabards together would be great.

If I were a newbie sitting in town, and I saw a bunch of people with the tag OL on their names, wearing the same tabard, I'd get a feel for who that guild is and their reputation grows. If there were three guilds there, who all happened to design the same tabard (OP tabard) then you'd lose that identity.

There will be multiple guilds with similar, if not exact, tabards.

I am fine with tags as long as I get to decide if other people see my tags. I am against being able to see other peoples tags whether they want you to or not.

However, even in this case you lose some gameplay, because if you hide in an enemy armor and try to sneak in, they can just require you to turn on your tags. Still diminishes gameplay.

[androma3]

Originally Posted by Paratus

There will be multiple guilds with similar, if not exact, tabards.

This is sux, give us the possibility to make our own design

[carp3]

Now, While I did vote for Tabards only over the other choices, I have an idea. What if the guild Tag would only show up if you have a Tabard on? For example, taking your tabard stealing idea a bit further, if this was implemented, the thief's tag would also show him as the guild tabard he stole... People without tabards having no tags. Not sure how feasible it is, as I haven't thought the details through (both ease-of-code wise or mechanics wise) very much. But its just a thought, what do y'all think?

EDIT* As far as self designed Tabards go, Pirates of the Burning Sea had a very good approval and import process. It could be a good guideline to follow, but it seems to add a shitload of workload to the already swamped devs...(Intern project anyone?)

[Maerlyn]

Hm. I like that idea carp3. Maybe attach it to a skill though. Think infiltration.

[dabbi12]

Originally Posted by Maerlyn

Hm. I like that idea carp3. Maybe attach it to a skill though. Think infiltration.

Hmm yes it sounds really interesting.

[metavision]

Originally Posted by Maerlyn

Hm. I like that idea carp3. Maybe attach it to a skill though. Think infiltration.

Or, a skill called diplomacy, that will show your their guild tags, whether they want you to see them, or not!