Three things-Disarming, Holding Items, and fighting dirty.

[Xelviel]

Will it be considered in MO? If so Would it be rather, Their weapon disappears for a few seconds, or is actually Paper-dolled and drops to the ground, as in Oblivion type disarming where as you can pick the weapon up, or throw it With a "Hold item" key, this was a method i used in the Arena on a Very hard and difficult mod. Anyways.

How about, you're mining. Its been a long road, you're about to bring a load in for the day. The ideas of the things you've always wanted to buy off the auction house, or from a friend, or a vendor is very close. When all of a sudden you begin to lose Health, your Combat log shows you've been struck, you turn around its a player/Mob. You're a Trade skill person, and you don't have too many reliable skills, or abilities to combat such a trained, battle hardened opponent.

So you Fight dirty. You disarm him, Hold Z(going back to oblivion) throw his weapon far, and you begin to pound on him , your weak attacks soon total up, you're doing noticeable damage to him. He retrieves his weapon, Disarm is on cooldown, or he knows how to maneuver against it, So you Sweep his leg, he falls to the floor hes defenseless, you florish. Back against the ground he cant do much Bobbing and weaving, you strike him for a defensless critacle blow, he dies, you loot him, He carries no gold but in his inventory lies a map of his camp, You venture off a few paces from the vein you was mining to a small camp in this camp is a small tent, a fire, and a bedroll, inside the tent you find valubles, and a chest containing alarge amount of the game's currency.

I can go on and on but i wont. However I think such abilities is a good way for us tradeskillers to fight against the everyday Joe the bandit.

[Ten Tron]

Sounds good on paper but don't you think if a carebear player uses these tacitcs with great sucess that the PvP community would adapt them too?

I would imagine a good PvP player would have a hybrid character of some sort. Weeding out all the useless skills and only training the ones that actually work in PvP. So if a sweep or disarm did exsist in MO and they worked effectively, then I would suspect that alot of PvP'rs would also have those skills.

Lets face it, if your a carebear then I would have a PvP support group around you. I don't think many skills would save you from a experienced PvP'r.

[BloodofDragons]

personaly i hope there is no disarm in MO.

but how could a "Trade skill person" that "don't have too many reliable skills, or abilities to combat such a trained, battle hardened opponent" disarm a "battle hardened opponent"?

if there is a disarm skill in MO i hope the % chance reflects the targets skill with the equiped weapon.

example: your sword skill 35 and your disarm skill is 10. targets sword skill is 35. you have a 10% chance of success. 35+10=45-35=10

an other example: your sword skill 45 your disarm 15. targets sword skill is 30. you have a 30% chance of success. 45+15=60-30=30

and one more: your sword skill 25 your disarm 5. targets sword skill is 45. you have 0% chance of success. 25+5=30-45=-15 the targets skill with a sword is for greater then yours and disarm is impossible.

something along the lines of this may be ok (figures of course could be changed for balance) ohh and seeing as how this will be a player skill game and almost 100% sure that it will be self aiming how do you think it should work. surely it won't be a simple shortcut click and you disarm someone. maybe on a successful block you would be given 1 or 1.5 seconds to target and "hit" the weapon wielding hand for the disarm to work.

also i don't think that anyone should be allowed to pick up the weapon atleast for a couple of seconds except the owner because after all this is a game and i see it being exploited just to take peoples weapons with out actually beating them and there for given the right to loot them.

one more thing how is this fighting dirty? i was thinking like throwing dirt in someone eyes or kicking them in the crotch or something like that.

the "holding items" should be nothing like oblivion. you should have to have an empty hand. take the time to pick it up. them throw it or use it (some sort of command to throw). no need to equip it because in a combat situation anything picked up from the ground/ect should be equiped right away if it is a hand held object such as a weapon. if any other item is picked up during combat a time frame should be used to put the item in a bag/backpack.

[Enerzeal]

As people have pointed out, if the tradeskill guy can fight dirty, then the player attacking him can sure as hell fight dirty as well. I imagine any disarm will only make the weapon disappear for a few seconds, as dropping items on the ground takes a fair chunk of server power, especially if everyones doing it all round the world.

I agree with the ideas though, sweeping, disarming, kicking dust in the eyes. It would be very cool to find alot of this in game, one can only hope the skills are that varied.

[Rokhazulu]

I don't know. Any kind of cheap shots are always really frustrating but, it's the kind of thing you sort of have to deal with. I'd prefer it if there wasn't any kind of disarming in MO because it would be a mechanic that would have to be perfect in order for it to not be annoying.

[nooblet]

Originally Posted by BloodofDragons

if there is a disarm skill in MO i hope the % chance reflects the targets skill with the equiped weapon.

example: your sword skill 35 and your disarm skill is 10. targets sword skill is 35. you have a 10% chance of success. 35+10=45-35=10

an other example: your sword skill 45 your disarm 15. targets sword skill is 30. you have a 30% chance of success. 45+15=60-30=30

and one more: your sword skill 25 your disarm 5. targets sword skill is 45. you have 0% chance of success. 25+5=30-45=-15 the targets skill with a sword is for greater then yours and disarm is impossible.

and one more: your sword skill 100 your disarm 100. targets sword skill is 100. you have 100% chance of success. 100+100=200-100=100 the targets skill with a sword is maxed but your chance to disarm is 100%.

Scary...

[Nehemia]

No disarm. If you have ever met a "disarm thief." You'll know why.

Oh well, if disarming is in, I'll be maxing it, just for the lulz of disarming your weapon, taking it and run away.

[Demufe]

best way is that weapon will be dropped on the ground and any player can loot them... but this way will be luck based if u are disarmed 80% of times ure dead

[Ryahask]

No, unless every single person can disarm and there is no skill in it (Meaning that everyone disarms for the same length of time) the skill would unbalance the game. If you were to put it in with the rules I just gave, it'd be pointless, so no I don't see any reason to put in disarm.

In general in a game such as this, there shouldn't be any skills that disable your opponent. Putting them in, whether rooting, stunning, or disarming, will simply screw up fights. You can never put something that prevents the other player from attacking into a skill based game. As for a cheap shot, such as kicking dust in their eyes, it can't be done either. Unless the server takes control of the enemy character when this happens it would either completely break the fight, whoever was blinded would lose, or have to do utterly nothing as you'd need to allow the other character to still attack, meaning they have to be able to see.

[shifue]

there is disarming in the game since it's a some what common tactic devs have posted it somewhere here. the line was around this summed up of course if you hit their hand you can possibly disarm them i'll hunt down the link

[Jeffan]

Originally Posted by shifue

there is disarming in the game since it's a some what common tactic devs have posted it somewhere here. the line was around this summed up of course if you hit their hand you can possibly disarm them i'll hunt down the link

Yeah they are planning to have different hitboxes and want to further on put in special effects when you hit special boxes.


"Additional effects for striking different parts may be added later (such as greater chance for knockback when hit on legs or feet, critical hits on head, chance of being disarmed when hit on hands etc.), " says Mats Persson in this thread:
http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/3...tem-short.html

[Ryahask]

Originally Posted by Jeffan

Yeah they are planning to have different hitboxes and want to further on put in special effects when you hit special boxes.


"Additional effects for striking different parts may be added later (such as greater chance for knockback when hit on legs or feet, critical hits on head, chance of being disarmed when hit on hands etc.), " says Mats Persson in this thread:
http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/3...tem-short.html

Well that kind of sucks to hear, yes, they're cool effects to add in but to have combat rely upon chance isn't a good thing. Unless combat is incredibly slow, making 3-5 hits insignificant, or unless disarming and skills similar to it last less than one second combat will often rely on chance. No it isn't a guess, from the Alpha combat thread you know how long it will take to strike with most weapons, and if I remember correctly 1 second would equal two hits from a melee weapon.

[Jeffan]

Originally Posted by Ryahask

Well that kind of sucks to hear, yes, they're cool effects to add in but to have combat rely upon chance isn't a good thing. Unless combat is incredibly slow, making 3-5 hits insignificant, or unless disarming and skills similar to it last less than one second combat will often rely on chance. No it isn't a guess, from the Alpha combat thread you know how long it will take to strike with most weapons, and if I remember correctly 1 second would equal two hits from a melee weapon.

Half-correct i think, each hit has atleast ½ second drawback AFTER the hit so 1 hit takes 1 sec but hits after ½.

This could be good if they implement it correct, it should have a skill (disarming skill for example) so the higher the skill the higher the chance of it happening. So if i go for a melee swordsman with specialized Disarming than i would try to hit his hands. But just imagine hitting someones hand when they are jumping,swinging and ducking. (kinda hard i guess)

[BloodofDragons]

nooblet it was just an example and i was just trying to point out that a skilled fighter would be harder to disarm.

Originally Posted by Jeffan

Half-correct i think, each hit has atleast ½ second drawback AFTER the hit so 1 hit takes 1 sec but hits after ½.

This could be good if they implement it correct, it should have a skill (disarming skill for example) so the higher the skill the higher the chance of it happening. So if i go for a melee swordsman with specialized Disarming than i would try to hit his hands. But just imagine hitting someones hand when they are jumping,swinging and ducking. (kinda hard i guess)

this is why i think disarm should only work after a block either by player block or auto block. the most common and effective way to disarm someone is to first "trap" the weapon.

and no demufe i don't think anyone should beable to pick up a disarmed weapon (atleast for some time) because it will cause a lot of griefing. 2 players are fighting, someone passes by. one of the fighters gets disarmed, player 3 runs up and grabs the weapon and runs off. now both fighters are pissed and player 3 got some loot for having done nothing at all to earn it. it should be treated just like making a kill. only the player (party) who killed something (disarmed someone) should have rights to it for a time.

[Stoppable]

Disarming imo is always a good idea.
Just make sure that you cant loot in combat after a disarm or so.
The fight has to continue and if either of them dies then you can loot it etc.

Not like it would happen "for real", run up to someone knock the sword out of his hand and run like a mofo.

PvP - Fighting Dirty = Win. Use all strategy possible to get out alive.

[Zeno]

This is kind of redundant, I understand the OPs original intent but I can will concur with everyone else here in saying that any skill that is effective in PvP will be used by PvPers in their build as well, thus, nullifying any advantage this would have given the tradesman.

If you fancy playing a 100% dedicated tradeskill character, count on either having people to back you up or getting killed a lot.

If I knew someone was a great tradesman but had no defence, I would routinely kill them to loot their uber trades goods all the while laughing as they flail away defenceless.

It's the nature of the beast, you simply cannot afford to be so passive in a FFA PvP environment.

[Ryahask]

I can't see this coming into the game without being useless or ruining the combat system. If everyone can use it, as it isn't a physical skill that needs training, then it will simply be a race to who disarms first. If only those who train it can use it, these types of tactics will be overpowered and slaughter anyone who doesn't train in them. The only way I could see it going in is if at the MAX a disarm, or any skill that disables the opponent, lasts a matter of 2-3 seconds.

[Stoppable]

Originally Posted by Zeno

This is kind of redundant, I understand the OPs original intent but I can will concur with everyone else here in saying that any skill that is effective in PvP will be used by PvPers in their build as well, thus, nullifying any advantage this would have given the tradesman.

If you fancy playing a 100% dedicated tradeskill character, count on either having people to back you up or getting killed a lot.

If I knew someone was a great tradesman but had no defence, I would routinely kill them to loot their uber trades goods all the while laughing as they flail away defenceless.

It's the nature of the beast, you simply cannot afford to be so passive in a FFA PvP environment.

A tradesman has money.
A tradesman has guards DUE to his money.
A tradesman has power DUE to his money.
A tradesman should not be underestimated

Atleast not the way i play mine

[Ryahask]

Originally Posted by Stoppable

A tradesman has money.
A tradesman has guards DUE to his money.
A tradesman has power DUE to his money.
A tradesman should not be underestimated

Atleast not the way i play mine

Until you have a trade empire I doubt you'll have "guards", maybe guard. Also have to find players willing to give up their time for how much you're paying them, so you need to give them more than what they'd gain off of mobs during that time.

[Stoppable]

Originally Posted by Ryahask

Until you have a trade empire I doubt you'll have "guards", maybe guard. Also have to find players willing to give up their time for how much you're paying them, so you need to give them more than what they'd gain off of mobs during that time.

Of course.
And no it wouldnt be like a 24/7 job even though their is no safe spots.
People are easily manipulated. *Evil grin*

[stedml]

I think that a disarm skill would be cool but obviously even at high ranks should have a low chance of success otherwise it would be extremely frustrating, and take away from a lot of skill

[Kieffer]

disarming to inventory would be fine, or some sort of few second lock out of weapon use. Would rather not have weapon strip unless they added weapon breaking, melting, heat metal etc the entire shabang if you get my drift that way you do not have to have just one weapon removal type skill and the system will be diverse.

[Regicide]

The main thing id like to see with fighting dirty is being able to kick sand in your opponents face or spit in his face to confuse him. Once you start getting into too much detail combat becomes way to complex and it would be too difficult to implement everything. Something that we might see in a few more years though.